Why are we so utterly sh*t?

[Snake]

“I think the club has been run for about twenty years by people who - for varying reasons and in varying ways - haven't really been very interested in the on-pitch performance of the club.

[GodalmingYellow]

14. When the Gypsy got ripped off by Kassam

I'm not a big believer in these sorts of things but I must admit Im beginning to wonder if there's any truth in it. How much more 'bad luck' can this club take?

I can't see how this season can be salvaged but another year in the Conference doesn't bear thinking about.

Where do we go from here?

Has anyone else on here read the book, or seen the film, &quotThinner&quot by Stephen King?

[GodalmingYellow]

1) Where did it all go wrong?
2) How much worse can it get?
3) How can we get out of this mess?
4) Will we ever turn the corner?

Answers, suggestions, comments, anything please. Here are my thoughts.

1) It went wrong when Herd overspent, and scarpered.

It started going wrong on the pitch when we sold Matty Elliott. Various other key moments include: Selling Dean Windass when we did the morale sapping damage limitation exercise at Arsenal the drubbing at Hull the frittering of funds on dubious Argentinian players and of course that fateful transfer day madness of Jim Smith.

2) We can still get relegated at least one more division.

3) I have no idea, other than starting again, how it can end positively. Even that is a huge gamble.

4) Please god, yes. This is based on hope, not any expectation.

It all started to go wrong when the stadium was hocked in the 70's to fund players and losses.

It was made worse by Maxwell underwriting costs the club could not afford in order for the club to have it's illustrious period.

Then it got worse when Maxwell got bored and wanted a bigger fish to fry.

Herd made the enormous blunders that set the club on the road to near bankruptcy, with his ill considered stadium funding.

Kassam reversed some of Herd's balls ups with a clever funding plan for the stadium and club.

The move to the new stadium, on the basis that Kassam originally sold the idea to us, should have ended the club's misery and would have inextricably linked the stadium to the club financially for at least 25 years.

But Kassam then ballsed it up by running the club badly and not sticking to the funding plan of directly subsidising the costs of OUFC with income from the commercial aspects of the deal.

Since then the club has had the millstone of rent being a very high proportion of its income, much higher than any club we have played against, and that has restricted the club's ability to finance itself properly. Had the original funding plan been retained, and the club run properly, I think we would be in the Champioship now.

Then a series of ill considered managerial appointments, coupled with short termism and rapid sackings accumulated large funding requirements and it has been a downward spiral since then.

It can get a whole lot worse. I've said many times that it is essential that the club be run on a basis that is affordable. Without that, as soon as Lenagan has had enough of pouring his money down the drain, the club becomes virtually unfundable. Debts, inherent losses and large rent, coupled with poor performances, expensive players and dwindling crowds is a terrible recipe.

Like Mally, I don't see how the club could be run with crowds below 3,000, and even at 3,500 it would take a shed load more of Lenagan's cash for survival.

My hope is that Lenagan will walk and write off his loans, and the club will be passed to the Trust for the fans, at nil cost and without debts. Even then, it would take a shed load of re-organisation and re-negotiation of contracts to keep the club going, and then players could only be signed with the club keeping within its income. Without that, the club will face a continual life of relying on the goodwill of wealthy fans or businessmen racking up large debts.

Will we ever turn the corner? Hmm. Difficult one. My fear is that it is already too late to save the club in its current form. Stadium purchase is not the answer unless it can be done at a price which ensures that the stadium company doesn't make losses. Kassam has no reason to agree to a rent reduction, though that avenue really needs to be explored heavily. And a move away from Minchery Farm will have to be considered as well if rent cannot be reduced. I would say the club has a 50% chance of survival in its present form, and perhaps only a 20% chance of ever returning to the Football League.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

But Kassam then ballsed it up by running the club badly

For us, yes, but not for himself.

[Myles Francis]

Kassam has no reason to agree to a rent reduction, though that avenue really needs to be explored heavily.

That is true. However, if the future of the club was in imminent danger, do you think he would consider a reduction then? From a purely business perspective, it makes sense to reduce the rent to guarantee some form of income, rather than effectively have a hand in the demise of your tenant with no easy replacement.

[A-Ro]

Kassam has no reason to agree to a rent reduction, though that avenue really needs to be explored heavily.

That is true. However, if the future of the club was in imminent danger, do you think he would consider a reduction then? From a purely business perspective, it makes sense to reduce the rent to guarantee some form of income, rather than effectively have a hand in the demise of your tenant with no easy replacement.

As I said in another thread, I thought that the deal had now been done and the question of rent to Mr. Kassam is no longer an issue.

[Mally]

Kassam has no reason to agree to a rent reduction, though that avenue really needs to be explored heavily.

That is true. However, if the future of the club was in imminent danger, do you think he would consider a reduction then? From a purely business perspective, it makes sense to reduce the rent to guarantee some form of income, rather than effectively have a hand in the demise of your tenant with no easy replacement.

As I said in another thread, I thought that the deal had now been done and the question of rent to Mr. Kassam is no longer an issue.

What makes you think that? Why wouldn't Kassam or WPL announce this if it was the case?

[Swissbloke]

I'm also a little confused, I had heard that the deal was done and to be announced over Xmas. Obviously something didn't work out.

[A-Ro]

That is true. However, if the future of the club was in imminent danger, do you think he would consider a reduction then? From a purely business perspective, it makes sense to reduce the rent to guarantee some form of income, rather than effectively have a hand in the demise of your tenant with no easy replacement.

As I said in another thread, I thought that the deal had now been done and the question of rent to Mr. Kassam is no longer an issue.

What makes you think that? Why wouldn't Kassam or WPL announce this if it was the case?

There are many reasons why announcements are carefully timed, I don't know the background of this decision.

[DLT]

I haven't heard any evidence that the deal for the ground has moved on an inch since Merry and co agreed to just 'take the club for now' because that was all the money they could come up with.

Merry is stimulates speculation to keep the TIU clan off his back and they so want to believe it.

Is it the 'Osler Road' gang who seem to be very much at the forefront of the 'Anti Patto'campaign that has been rolling since the day he took over?

[Shoobedoo]

I'm not anti-Patto at this point but when he picks Matt Day at right midfield and Joel Ledgister up front I can't help but worry that he's heading into the same territiory as Smith in playing players out of position.

Can't stress enough the importance of the next four weeks. Our very existence may depend on the players he manages - or fails - to sign.

[Kernow Yellow]

Can't stress enough the importance of the next four weeks. Our very existence may depend on the players he manages - or fails - to sign.

How so? Regardless of who we sign, we're not going to get promoted, and we're not going to get relegated.

I don't really see what opportunities this transfer window offers, other than to see how astute Patto really is in the transfer market, and therefore whether he's worth keeping as a manager. As his other managerial skills seem somewhat lacking thus far.

[Matt D]

becuase if we're not going to get promoted, then it's about building for next season, and not starting with a team that 'needs time to gel' ( .

surely there needs to be some signs that next season we can have a team that can make chances, score goals, and push for promotion to keep some hope at the club, and to give us the best chance of seeing season ticket holders renewing?

[Mally]

becuase if we're not going to get promoted, then it's about building for next season, and not starting with a team that 'needs time to gel' ( .

surely there needs to be some signs that next season we can have a team that can make chances, score goals, and push for promotion to keep some hope at the club, and to give us the best chance of seeing season ticket holders renewing?

Have to agree with Matt here. Whether Patto can turn things around or not (regardless of promotion which must now be impossible) will be crucial for the season ticket decisions in the summer. If we carry on as we are I can see season ticket sales dropping to less than half the number we have now.

[GodalmingYellow]

Kassam has no reason to agree to a rent reduction, though that avenue really needs to be explored heavily.

That is true. However, if the future of the club was in imminent danger, do you think he would consider a reduction then? From a purely business perspective, it makes sense to reduce the rent to guarantee some form of income, rather than effectively have a hand in the demise of your tenant with no easy replacement.

No I don't think he would agree a reduction. He would prefer to be able to go to the nearest High Court and have the football covenant restriction removed from the land on the grounds that there was no tenant available to pay a commercial rnet. If he managed that, then he could redevelop the site for housing and make loads of money.