Stadium again

[Mally]

By now OxVox members should have received the latest news letter with details of the exchange of letters with Firoz Kassam and the limited comments from the club on the subject so I'm surprised that there hasn't been any comment about it on here.

It looks like nothing has moved since WPL took over last year. According to Kassam he still wants what he wanted when negotiations started a year ago and has offered to help finance the purchase if (as is more than likely) WPL can't come up with the security to finance the purchase themselves. WPL keep hinting at being about to make an offer but have said very little else except:

&quotObviously everyone knows our ambition and love for the club. If
there were a way of doing the deal for the stadium at the present time
we would have done it by now. However we are not prepared to do the
stadium deal at a price which will endanger the future of the club.
The negotiations will continue with Firoz Kassam to achieve a
satisfactory deal and when there is any news we will communicate it to
the supporters.&quot

OxVox's comment that &quotwe do not think that the owners of the football club should allow themselves to pay a price that is substantially more than the facility is worth doing so could put the club on a difficult financial footing.&quot totally misses the point about the buildng and ownership of the stadium in the first place. It was because the stadium cost more to build than it is worth that it took so long to complete. Kassam is not the sort of person to compromise when it comes to recouping the money he has invested - he is almost certainly going to want a minimum of what he put in which is gong to be in the region of £10 million.

It looks like there is no way out of the current impasse with WPL unwilling and probably unable to pay the asking price and Kassam unwilling to contemplate selling at a loss. The longer this situation goes on the more dangerous it becomes for the club and there could come a time when Kassam starts looking for other offers from a rugby club or starts to think the unthinkable and looks at redeveloping the land.

Of course there could be something in the legal agreement between Kassam and the council that impacts this but unfortunately the council have refused to disclose this information in spite of requests under the freedom of information act. Recently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the council were acting unlawfully in refusing to release this information but they still haven't released it. They have just 4 days in which to respond to the latest request but I don't think I'll be holding my breath. Makes you wonder what the council have to hide doesn't it?

[neilw]

&quotKassam unwilling to contemplate selling at a loss&quot......... Having acquired the land at below market value, and assisted by profit on the sale of The Manor, I'm sure Kassam could give the ground away for nothing and still recognise a reasonable / good return from the entire venture. The build cost is irrelevant. There wouldn't be a loss, merely a reduction in gain / profit.

[boris]

It looks like there is no way out of the current impasse with WPL unwilling and probably unable to pay the asking price and Kassam unwilling to contemplate selling at a loss.

There are still too many facts that aren't in the public domain to make too many sweeping statements. What we don't know are such things as: how much the stadium cost to build how much WPL are offering how much Kassam is asking what are the terms of his offer to help finance the purchase what is the actual book value of the stadium how much can be generated from ancillary activities what the terms of the sale include (in terms of what is included in the price, what agreements exist over access, what contingencies are in place in case of conflicts of interest between Ozone tenants and stadium use) what information can be released without breaching confidentiality agreements and probably lots of other things that I can't think of at the mo. I certainly think that the situation is not even close to being a black and white 'price/value' v 'available money' scenario.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

It would certainly be very interesting to go back to the period of the ground sale and re-examine the various claims made by the various parties involved.

[Resurrection Ox]

By now OxVox members should have received the latest news letter with details of the exchange of letters with Firoz Kassam and the limited comments from the club on the subject so I'm surprised that there hasn't been any comment about it on here.

It looks like nothing has moved since WPL took over last year. According to Kassam he still wants what he wanted when negotiations started a year ago and has offered to help finance the purchase if (as is more than likely) WPL can't come up with the security to finance the purchase themselves. WPL keep hinting at being about to make an offer but have said very little else except:

&quotObviously everyone knows our ambition and love for the club. If
there were a way of doing the deal for the stadium at the present time
we would have done it by now. However we are not prepared to do the
stadium deal at a price which will endanger the future of the club.
The negotiations will continue with Firoz Kassam to achieve a
satisfactory deal and when there is any news we will communicate it to
the supporters.&quot

OxVox's comment that &quotwe do not think that the owners of the football club should allow themselves to pay a price that is substantially more than the facility is worth doing so could put the club on a difficult financial footing.&quot totally misses the point about the buildng and ownership of the stadium in the first place. It was because the stadium cost more to build than it is worth that it took so long to complete. Kassam is not the sort of person to compromise when it comes to recouping the money he has invested - he is almost certainly going to want a minimum of what he put in which is gong to be in the region of £10 million.

It looks like there is no way out of the current impasse with WPL unwilling and probably unable to pay the asking price and Kassam unwilling to contemplate selling at a loss. The longer this situation goes on the more dangerous it becomes for the club and there could come a time when Kassam starts looking for other offers from a rugby club or starts to think the unthinkable and looks at redeveloping the land.

Of course there could be something in the legal agreement between Kassam and the council that impacts this but unfortunately the council have refused to disclose this information in spite of requests under the freedom of information act. Recently the Information Commissioner has ruled that the council were acting unlawfully in refusing to release this information but they still haven't released it. They have just 4 days in which to respond to the latest request but I don't think I'll be holding my breath. Makes you wonder what the council have to hide doesn't it?

Why mortgage the future of the club just to keep Kassam happy? Who else is he going to sell the stadium to this week ? The club also has first option still on the asset.

And don't forget the club still has ( a less than 20 years now I guess lease.

And don't forget - either - that Kassam got the benefit of a part completed building when he stepped into the fray.

These issues have been aired quite fully on TIU. Consensus seems to be that short term there is no crisis in this matter not being resolved. Medium term of course it needs to be settled.

As for council - well we'd all like to know more. Especially -I'd guess- those of you who hold these people accountable. .

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

Having acquired the land at below market value

This may be the important issue and it may be what the council are concerned about. They would certainly have a fiduciary duty not to sell assets for below market value: one would hope that they were put under no pressure to do so by anybody.

[Mooro]

In simplistic laymans terms is how you see the situation something like the following (NB all numbers for example only &amp not based on any actual info)?

Firoka want say £10m for the stadium
WPL have offered say £6m
WPL can probably afford a maximum of £7m
Kassam has offered to be a minority partner by putting up the other £3m beyond the WPL £7m to reach the £10m valuation.

[Resurrection Ox]

Having acquired the land at below market value

This may be the important issue and it may be what the council are concerned about. They would certainly have a fiduciary duty not to sell assets for below market value: one would hope that they were put under no pressure to do so by anybody.

Do you recall what the site looked like when Kassam rode in? It was a rusting dump.

[Resurrection Ox]

In simplistic laymans terms is how you see the situation something like the following (NB all numbers for example only &amp not based on any actual info)?

Firoka want say £10m for the stadium
WPL have offered say £6m
WPL can probably afford a maximum of £7m
Kassam has offered to be a minority partner by putting up the other £3m beyond the WPL £7m to reach the £10m valuation.

Er - in your synopsis maybe WPL don't want to pay more than £7m. They might have the money to pay more. And might be happy with the lease they have in the short term.

[Snake]

“Having acquired the land at below market value

[Isaac]

It looks like there is no way out of the current impasse with WPL unwilling and probably unable to pay the asking price and Kassam unwilling to contemplate selling at a loss.

There are still too many facts that aren't in the public domain to make too many sweeping statements. What we don't know are such things as: how much the stadium cost to build how much WPL are offering how much Kassam is asking what are the terms of his offer to help finance the purchase what is the actual book value of the stadium how much can be generated from ancillary activities what the terms of the sale include (in terms of what is included in the price, what agreements exist over access, what contingencies are in place in case of conflicts of interest between Ozone tenants and stadium use) what information can be released without breaching confidentiality agreements and probably lots of other things that I can't think of at the mo. I certainly think that the situation is not even close to being a black and white 'price/value' v 'available money' scenario.

I agree with Boris. Until we know more we don't even know where to start.

The only thing I got from the exchange of letters is the reminder that Kassam is a rather unpleasant individual who still thinks we should be grateful that he turned up and ruined the club.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

Do you recall what the site looked like when Kassam rode in? It was a rusting dump.

Yes I do: not only was I living in the vicinity but I probably did more than anybody do draw its status as rusting dump to the attention of the public (see article in When Saturday Comes, for instance). What precisely is your point?

[Matt D]

The club also has first option still on the asset.

is this so reassuring?

what does this mean if the club won't meet the price kassam has set, and he manages to find someone who will?

have they then effectively not exercised their first option, clearing the way for another party?

[Resurrection Ox]

Do you recall what the site looked like when Kassam rode in? It was a rusting dump.

Yes I do: not only was I living in the vicinity but I probably did more than anybody do draw its status as rusting dump to the attention of the public (see article in When Saturday Comes, for instance). What precisely is your point?

Well done for doing that.

The fact that it was a rusting dump would have affected its'market value'.

Kassam took some big risks and got a leisure facility -effectively on the cheap as a result.

Which he should factor in in his dealings with WPL now.

I agree with Isaac and Boris. There is lot more to this than meets the eye.
Kassam has always despised football fans. He thinks we are all hayseeds. 100% confirmed by his tone of letter. A thoroughly unpleasant, arrogant man.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

The fact that it was a rusting dump would have affected its'market value'.

Well, not necessarily. If somebody else had wished to purchase the site for another purpose than a sports stadium, for instance, then it wouldn't make much difference whether what was there already were rusting or not.