Fan's Forum

[Baboo]

[The club doesn't receive any TV income from Wembley, as that all goes to the Conference. Wembley income is split between the two clubs after deducting the cost of the venue, administration fees, and a percentage (unspecified) that goes into a Conference pool (or Moules' back pocket).

Cheers again.
No TV income from Wembley - oh!
I would be interested to know the cost, admin fees, &amp Conference % (- even after they've taken all the TV money.

There is of course an arguement that says clubs should get very little / nothing from the play-offs. Seems wrong that teams finishing second, third, fourth &amp fifth should profit financially whilst the winners (D&ampG in this case) miss out.

[Hoarse]

hmmm so where's the other £1.5M gone? plenty of areas I'd guess.

OUFC's non-playing staff wages
policing costs
club shop costs
do the conference centre staff wages still come from OUFC rather than stadco?
transport costs throughout the season

It'll be interesting to see the actual breakdown of what's spent on what if and when someone gets their hands on the accounting details from last night.

I thought last night was excellent and it's so good to finally have owners of the club who're willing to and actually being open with the fans about so many aspects of running OUFC.

I honestly think it's an opportunity for OxVox to come to the party and organise various fund-raising activities to increase the funds available to the playing budget of the club.

Potentially £900k next season doesn't give Jim much room for manouevre in the transfer market if we're already spending £1.2M this season.

[Mark G]

so: 30000 x £5 = £150k

Blimey - only a fiver to get in - should fill the place. I might go even if we don't make it.

Our cut of the ticket price. I obviously didn't explain it very well in the preamble.

[Resurrection Ox]

He even said that Kassam had offered to sell 50% now and 50% later if it would help things but they had declined to take him upon this.

I wonder why not. Presumably because they want to cut ties once and for all. Or don't they have any faith that a joint partnership with FK would work. Or don't they have / can't raise the cash to acquire half?

I wasn't there last night but it sounds reasonably positive.

Any mention of the current financial position?

Loads of financial information on the club, the FITC programme and on youth development. Also lots of details on the play-off financial implications.

Highlights were a budgeted loss of £750k for this financial year will actually be £680k. Next 3 years the plan is to lose £250k. Turnover up to £2.6 million with expenses at £3.3 million this year. What I don't understand is where all the £3.3 million has gone. £1.2 million on players, £425,000 on the stadium and from memory £125,000 on youth development. This leaves a gap of just over £1.5 million!

Next year's player budget if in the Conference is capped at £900,000 against a turnover of £2.5 million (which sounds low to me based on the conference rules I've seen). If we go up the budget will be £1.2 million.

Playoffs are worth approx £187,000 if we get to the final and promotion is worth almost £350,000 in extra Football League, TV and youth development funding.

The most unbelievable part of the presentation was around the future Academy plans with Peers School. By 2010 the plan is to have developed a £25 million teaching and training facility all grant funded. They plan to have 5 centres throughout Oxfordshire with a total of 900 academy students! Seeing as their football plans don't envisage us at Championship level by this time I don't fully understand how our academy is going to be 20 times the size of, for example Man Utd and Arsenal's academies.

Why is it 'unbelievable'? Not all of the students are going to be football 'scholars' are they? They'll be doing all sorts of leisure qualifications. (physio/pe teacher) from what I could glean. I thought this particular aspect of the presentation was very, very interesting.

As for the potential partnership with colleges re buying stadium and exchanging developed space behind East Stand for dosh up front well isn't student accomodation a big problem in Oxford? Will students fancy leaving the dreaming spires behind for a view of the arse end of Oxford though?

Seems like they're taking a leaf out of the Bris. Rovers redevelopment plans. All power to them.

[Snake]

It was all good stuff from WPL, and it seems like we’re “going on a journey

[GodalmingYellow]

Sounds like a lot of positives from the forum, but the big questions for me are how did we manage to lose so much this season, and how will the borrowing/directors' loans be repaid?

As far as I can tell, we are building up a big debt with very little collateral.

That's fine whilst Lenegan and Merry want to play, but what happens when they want to bugger off, as they will do at some stage, just like almost all owners do eventually, whether that be in 3, 5 or 10 years.

I want a sustainable club left please.

[Paul Cooper]

IL did talk about the loan to the club. He implied that it was a loan that NM and IL would not call in. He said that it was coming out of their pockets and that they were in it for the long haul. IF they sold out later, they did not expect to make a profit although if their plans to generate additional income (specifically through the use of the ground when purchased) came off then they would deserve the profit.

They said all of the right things and certainly suggested that they would not leave oufc in the mire. We may have to wait a few years to see how true that is I guess.

Interestingly one of the ways to reduce the loss was to not replace Kelvin T, except with one of the Lenegan sons. IL did point out that NM, IL, the Lenegan sons (who would be doing more at the football club) weer all working for nothing and JS was working for 'a pittance'.

IL pointed out that many businesses still boycot the stadium and that the losses at the stadium were increasing. He pointed out that he had a lot of experience at making such businesses work (Sprots Cafe). Whilst this is obviously the ultimate plan, they do not seem keen to rush into the Stadium purchse. They seem confident that they will gte it eventually (as FK seems keen to get rid of it), but will not pay too much/ burden oufc with too much debt.

[Mooro]

I honestly think it's an opportunity for OxVox to come to the party and organise various fund-raising activities to increase the funds available to the playing budget of the club.

Potentially £900k next season doesn't give Jim much room for manouevre in the transfer market if we're already spending £1.2M this season.

Not as simple as that though, as that number is set from a much greater height of officialdom than just our board. It isnt a matter of rolling up with £50k and saying here you go Jim, get an extra player or two by the weekend on us.....
Not exactly sure of the rules on this, but in general, the limits are set on estimated turnover, with either a %age or fixed amount set accordingly.
Any money raised and contributed would therefore take time to filter through into the calculation and then only a proportion could be put towards wages.
£50k handed over in July would not enter into the equation for months (reviewed quarterly I think) and then only £30k at most could be used on wages...In any ycase a supporters transfer fund would most likely raise only a fraction of this anyway, so to not be abel to use it for 6 months, then only 60% is not really what we'd be after..

TRansfer funds only work when a club cannot afford to pay out the maximum it is allowed to by the salary cap on wages. We're allowed 900k and will pay 900k but could afford to go up to say £1.5m (say) if we wanted to. Some clubs on smaller budgets, cannot afford to pay up to their allocated limit after paying other costs, so it is only then that transfer funds can help.

It is the same reason why the club cannot invest in the future by taking on all (or most) of our Championship winning youth side as senior pros next season, to let them continue their development. Clearly Merry wants to bring youth through, and in the past Chairmen could put aside a separate fund for such things, but now it all comes out of the same capped pot, however much money he would want to spend on it, meaning to invest in the future in that way, would mean less money available for the first team squad next season.

Not a good way to encourage the development of young talent but the FA know best!!

[GodalmingYellow]

IL did talk about the loan to the club. He implied that it was a loan that NM and IL would not call in. He said that it was coming out of their pockets and that they were in it for the long haul. IF they sold out later, they did not expect to make a profit although if their plans to generate additional income (specifically through the use of the ground when purchased) came off then they would deserve the profit.

They said all of the right things and certainly suggested that they would not leave oufc in the mire. We may have to wait a few years to see how true that is I guess.

Interestingly one of the ways to reduce the loss was to not replace Kelvin T, except with one of the Lenegan sons. IL did point out that NM, IL, the Lenegan sons (who would be doing more at the football club) weer all working for nothing and JS was working for 'a pittance'.

IL pointed out that many businesses still boycot the stadium and that the losses at the stadium were increasing. He pointed out that he had a lot of experience at making such businesses work (Sprots Cafe). Whilst this is obviously the ultimate plan, they do not seem keen to rush into the Stadium purchse. They seem confident that they will gte it eventually (as FK seems keen to get rid of it), but will not pay too much/ burden oufc with too much debt.

Implying something isn't nearly enough though is it.

And saying that they will not expect a profit is a far cry from saying they will accept £4m or more in losses.

No future potential owner will pay £4m for a club with no assets and we cannot allow the club to get into the same position as before Kassam arrived.

If the Directors were happy to write off the loans, I can see no reason not to write them off as donations now. That would improve the club turnover and possibly improve potential playing budget next season.

[Resurrection Ox]

Sounds like a lot of positives from the forum, but the big questions for me are how did we manage to lose so much this season, and how will the borrowing/directors' loans be repaid?

As far as I can tell, we are building up a big debt with very little collateral.

That's fine whilst Lenegan and Merry want to play, but what happens when they want to bugger off, as they will do at some stage, just like almost all owners do eventually, whether that be in 3, 5 or 10 years.

I want a sustainable club left please.

They went , their words, balls out for promotion this year. ie they spent big on wages. Not rocket science GY.

They are not prepared to accept £750K loss (as budgeted for 06/07) - actual loss £640K every season. Most they are prepared to accept is £250K loss pa over next three years. IL stated that his net worth, (Merry's net worth not disclosed) is £15- £20m. At least the figures are in the public domain and are capable of being followed easily.

[Resurrection Ox]

IL did talk about the loan to the club. He implied that it was a loan that NM and IL would not call in. He said that it was coming out of their pockets and that they were in it for the long haul. IF they sold out later, they did not expect to make a profit although if their plans to generate additional income (specifically through the use of the ground when purchased) came off then they would deserve the profit.

They said all of the right things and certainly suggested that they would not leave oufc in the mire. We may have to wait a few years to see how true that is I guess.

Interestingly one of the ways to reduce the loss was to not replace Kelvin T, except with one of the Lenegan sons. IL did point out that NM, IL, the Lenegan sons (who would be doing more at the football club) weer all working for nothing and JS was working for 'a pittance'.

IL pointed out that many businesses still boycot the stadium and that the losses at the stadium were increasing. He pointed out that he had a lot of experience at making such businesses work (Sprots Cafe). Whilst this is obviously the ultimate plan, they do not seem keen to rush into the Stadium purchse. They seem confident that they will gte it eventually (as FK seems keen to get rid of it), but will not pay too much/ burden oufc with too much debt.

On relfection it is possible that KT has been shunted aside by IL to save another wage. The Lenagan boys are not being paid as I recall. Strikes me that IL decided to kick arse Feb/March time after our bad run . Cue - bye bye Awford/North/KT. Hello Patto and the family troop.

[Resurrection Ox]

IL did talk about the loan to the club. He implied that it was a loan that NM and IL would not call in. He said that it was coming out of their pockets and that they were in it for the long haul. IF they sold out later, they did not expect to make a profit although if their plans to generate additional income (specifically through the use of the ground when purchased) came off then they would deserve the profit.

They said all of the right things and certainly suggested that they would not leave oufc in the mire. We may have to wait a few years to see how true that is I guess.

Interestingly one of the ways to reduce the loss was to not replace Kelvin T, except with one of the Lenegan sons. IL did point out that NM, IL, the Lenegan sons (who would be doing more at the football club) weer all working for nothing and JS was working for 'a pittance'.

IL pointed out that many businesses still boycot the stadium and that the losses at the stadium were increasing. He pointed out that he had a lot of experience at making such businesses work (Sprots Cafe). Whilst this is obviously the ultimate plan, they do not seem keen to rush into the Stadium purchse. They seem confident that they will gte it eventually (as FK seems keen to get rid of it), but will not pay too much/ burden oufc with too much debt.

Implying something isn't nearly enough though is it.

And saying that they will not expect a profit is a far cry from saying they will accept £4m or more in losses.

No future potential owner will pay £4m for a club with no assets and we cannot allow the club to get into the same position as before Kassam arrived.

If the Directors were happy to write off the loans, I can see no reason not to write them off as donations now. That would improve the club turnover and possibly improve potential playing budget next season.

What do you want, the moon on a stick? No businessman is going to dispense such largesse to a football club!

[GodalmingYellow]

IL did talk about the loan to the club. He implied that it was a loan that NM and IL would not call in. He said that it was coming out of their pockets and that they were in it for the long haul. IF they sold out later, they did not expect to make a profit although if their plans to generate additional income (specifically through the use of the ground when purchased) came off then they would deserve the profit.

They said all of the right things and certainly suggested that they would not leave oufc in the mire. We may have to wait a few years to see how true that is I guess.

Interestingly one of the ways to reduce the loss was to not replace Kelvin T, except with one of the Lenegan sons. IL did point out that NM, IL, the Lenegan sons (who would be doing more at the football club) weer all working for nothing and JS was working for 'a pittance'.

IL pointed out that many businesses still boycot the stadium and that the losses at the stadium were increasing. He pointed out that he had a lot of experience at making such businesses work (Sprots Cafe). Whilst this is obviously the ultimate plan, they do not seem keen to rush into the Stadium purchse. They seem confident that they will gte it eventually (as FK seems keen to get rid of it), but will not pay too much/ burden oufc with too much debt.

Implying something isn't nearly enough though is it.

And saying that they will not expect a profit is a far cry from saying they will accept £4m or more in losses.

No future potential owner will pay £4m for a club with no assets and we cannot allow the club to get into the same position as before Kassam arrived.

If the Directors were happy to write off the loans, I can see no reason not to write them off as donations now. That would improve the club turnover and possibly improve potential playing budget next season.

What do you want, the moon on a stick? No businessman is going to dispense such largesse to a football club!

Your gung ho attitude is quite alarming.

What I want is a football club that lives within its means in the medium term.

What are you going to say to the supporters and members of OxVox, if after 5 years M &amp L find they can't contain and finance the losses, and can't find a buyer to take on such large debts?

Its all very well being matey with the new owners and being excited over ambitious plans for the club, but the security of the club is much more important than any of those issues.

There has to be a way of either writing off the losses or repaying them. There is no other option. Supporters have been blind to that basic fact over many years and look where it got us.

[Resurrection Ox]

Implying something isn't nearly enough though is it.

And saying that they will not expect a profit is a far cry from saying they will accept £4m or more in losses.

No future potential owner will pay £4m for a club with no assets and we cannot allow the club to get into the same position as before Kassam arrived.

If the Directors were happy to write off the loans, I can see no reason not to write them off as donations now. That would improve the club turnover and possibly improve potential playing budget next season.

What do you want, the moon on a stick? No businessman is going to dispense such largesse to a football club!

Your gung ho attitude is quite alarming.

What I want is a football club that lives within its means in the medium term.

What are you going to say to the supporters and members of OxVox, if after 5 years M &amp L find they can't contain and finance the losses, and can't find a buyer to take on such large debts?

Its all very well being matey with the new owners and being excited over ambitious plans for the club, but the security of the club is much more important than any of those issues.

There has to be a way of either writing off the losses or repaying them. There is no other option. Supporters have been blind to that basic fact over many years and look where it got us.

Who said anything about 'mateyness'? I merely turned up to hear what they had to say last Thursday.

I repeat. What investor would just'donate' money' to the club not expecting it to be repaid?

If the level of financial information being provided to supporters continues to be of the standard as per presentation then we will be able to influence to prevent the scenario you refer to taking place.

[Baboo]

[quote=&quotGodalmingYellow
And saying that they will not expect a profit is a far cry from saying they will accept £4m or more in losses.

No future potential owner will pay £4m for a club with no assets and we cannot allow the club to get into the same position as before Kassam arrived.[/quote]

Absolutely.

D&ampG walked this league on a fraction of the income we have.
Morecambe achieved the same points on a fraction of the income we have.
Surely we should be able to get out of this league and make a profit shouldn't we?