League Cup

[Eric Pollard]

Believe there was a pre-draw for home and away. Pity, will be away that week, would have liked to have gone to Hawthorns, never been before .

We'll make a few quid. 10,000 crowd say? £60-£70K coming in and not budgeted for? That's Ashton's wages paid for a month ;]

[SmileyMan]

So there was a pre-draw of the unseeded teams to decide if they were home and away, then the seeded teams were drawn to meet an unseeded team each. Only the second part (the 'glamour' clubs!) was shown on telly which is why it did indeed look dodgy, but I guess Sky didn't want to give prime time airwaves to whether the 90th most important team in England was playing their next match in the fifth most important competition at home or away.

[Kairdiff Exile]

Any sports fan should find the very idea of "seeded" draws utterly nauseating. Only ever done to favour the soi-disant 'big' clubs, and total anathema to the principles of proper competition.

[SmileyMan]

Any sports fan should find the very idea of "seeded" draws utterly nauseating. Only ever done to favour the soi-disant 'big' clubs, and total anathema to the principles of proper competition.

Got to disagree with this - it means that you've got a good chance of meeting a club that you haven't played in years, and keeps it interesting to the fans and sponsors. I'd rather play WBA than bloody Newport again, and there's always the chance of a headline-grabbing, giant-killing win

Otherwise, you've just got the FA Cup-lite.

[Kernow Yellow]

Did anyone on here go? How did we play in general? Was this line-up preferable to Saturday's one?

Yeah I went. Some belated thoughts:

We started appallingly, and basically let City walk the length (and then width) of the pitch to score with barely a challenge. I feared for our night and our season when we conceded so easily, but we grew in confidence and looked a decent team after that.

Meades looked very comfortable on the ball, and Brown was particularly impressive - with space to run into he looks so much more dangerous than Alfie, although the two of them combined well together down the left a few times with our fluid formation.

Newey was fine - certainly better than Saturday - but his crossing was again poor. Hunt, by contrast, put some excellent balls into the box and was solid at full back too. Happier with him there than Riley if those two games are anything to go by. Riley looked useful further forward though.

Max was ok in general, but he did spill a low cross and then played Jake Wright into a lot of trouble with a poor clearance. Wright and Mullins were as you'd expect - which is to say very good.

Morris really looks like he could be a very useful acquisition. I thought at half time that he needed to score soon, as he was getting a bit frustrated and trying too hard, giving away fouls a little needlessly. As soon as he did notch you could see the confidence flow into him and he started bossing the Bristol back line, and he looked as surprised as I was when he was brought off. But of course Hylton came on and scored the winner. A very pleasing evening all round.

But, and this is a big but, and without wishing to detract from the performance, City weren't very good. Complacent in attack, often hitting wild longshots instead of picking what looked like easy passes, and ill-disciplined in defence - this was the second string of a team that spent most of last year towards the bottom of League 1. So we shouldn't get carried away. Also, they played an open brand of football, as you'd expect at home, and this gave us the space to play in that we didn't have on Saturday. I suspect most teams that visit the Kassam will play more like Burton, so we need to show we can counter that. Hopefully Tuesday night will give us the confidence to go on and do that.

A proper football night though. I didn't think the locals would be bothered with this fixture, but the crowd felt much higher than the 6,000 reported. Both side stands looked at least 75% full, and there were over 500 in the away end. Maybe that was the crowd at kick-off, as there were still long queues of home fans at the ticket office until well into the first half. The City fans weren't half quiet though, whereas the U's were superbly backed all night, and the players looked delighted with the support as they came off in front of the away end.

[Kairdiff Exile]

[Seeding] keeps it interesting to the... sponsors.

Bugger the sponsors.It's our game, not theirs.

On your wider point about giant-killing, it's a shame that domestic cup competitions have been purely reduced to that dynamic. All the early rounds FA Cup or Milk Cup coverage now is a patronising, sepia-tinted reduction of the competition to "Can [name of 'little' provincial club] beat [name of generic 'big' club]?" and - even worse "[Name of 'little' provincial club' will be hoping for a lucrative away tie at [insert name of generic top-half Premiershit club]". That dynamic reaches its nadir with seedings which are designed to give 'little' clubs a game (ideally away) to a 'big' club that they have little chance of winning so that we can get on with it and have a competition dominated by the 'big' clubs who'll get the biggest television audience.

Sorry, no dice. That's not the totality of what cup competitions should be. I want to see a normal draw, where Oxford might get lucky and have three or four ties against relatively lowly opponents and get a cup run together (when was the last time we had one of those‽) or where we might get a 'big' club at home and actually try to beat them rather than (as is apparently now gospel) craving an away tie where we might make a few more bob.

[SmileyMan]

[Seeding] keeps it interesting to the... sponsors.

I want to see a normal draw, where Oxford might get lucky and have three or four ties against relatively lowly opponents and get a cup run together (when was the last time we had one of those‽) or where we might get a 'big' club at home and actually try to beat them rather than (as is apparently now gospel) craving an away tie where we might make a few more bob.

So wait a few weeks for the FA Cup?

As for the second part, I'm happy with either way. I never believe that the sole purpose of a big opponent is to put some money in the coffers while we do our duty and roll over. I don't think the players do either - c.f. last season's game at Charlton. Besides, there's the even more irritating 'concentratate on the league' mantra to contend with, which is an even bigger pile of crap.

Without the sponsors, there'd be no competition. That's a harsh reality.

[Kernow Yellow]

I want to see a normal draw, where Oxford might get lucky and have three or four ties against relatively lowly opponents and get a cup run together (when was the last time we had one of those‽)

Last season in the FA Cup. Five matches we played. And still no-one turned up and everyone whinged about prices for the decent home tie we finally got.

or where we might get a 'big' club at home and actually try to beat them rather than (as is apparently now gospel) craving an away tie where we might make a few more bob.

I crave an away tie because home games at the Kassam are soul-destroyingly crap. Plus I might get to visit a new ground and/or some new pubs. I might even get to go to a decent football ground. You know, one with with four sides - maybe even a terrace. Bring on away games I say! Especially at big clubs. And that has nothing to do with wanting OUFC to make a few quid.

[Kairdiff Exile]

Without the sponsors, there'd be no competition. That's a harsh reality.

Bollocks. There'd probably be lower wages for the top stars, and probably less money for greedy directors to take out of their clubs, but football managed perfectly well before the age of mass sponsorship, just as it managed perfectly well before sky-high television rights money and extortionate ticket prices.

Kernow Yellow - both good points, and I'd probably agree with both. I generally prefer away ties to home games these days too - but I can't be alone in loathing the media assumption that clubs at our level must always crave an away game, can I? Making a 'big' team come to a humble ground and turning them over is a wonderous thing. We used to be great at doing that at the Manor, where 'big' clubs struggled with the slope, the tightness of the ground and the rubbish facilities, and we turned it to our advantage. That's what football is about - not allowing yourself to be patronised, patted on the head and given a few quid for your troubles as a 'big' club beats you at their place.

[OUFC4eva]

There won't be too many better photo's this season will there?

#magic moments

[Mooro]

Always been the way though...

Do you not remember that certain commentators were actually intimating that we would be happier going to Stamford Bridge for an FA cup replay than going to Hillborough in the next round....?

I'm OK with seedings in the second round, but no further and not in the FA cup at all (except of course that which round clubs enter is itself a form of seeding). Much better than the bizarre pre-drawing later rounds idea they came up with a while back.

They've been doing the draw like this (pre-drawing the home/away and the lower club sequence) which does make it look a little iffy, I think it would work better if they alternated home/awy across the draw, then had two people pulling the teams from two pots.

[GodalmingYellow]

I want to see a normal draw, where Oxford might get lucky and have three or four ties against relatively lowly opponents and get a cup run together (when was the last time we had one of those‽)

Last season in the FA Cup. Five matches we played. And still no-one turned up and everyone whinged about prices for the decent home tie we finally got.

or where we might get a 'big' club at home and actually try to beat them rather than (as is apparently now gospel) craving an away tie where we might make a few more bob.

I crave an away tie because home games at the Kassam are soul-destroyingly crap. Plus I might get to visit a new ground and/or some new pubs. I might even get to go to a decent football ground. You know, one with with four sides - maybe even a terrace. Bring on away games I say! Especially at big clubs. And that has nothing to do with wanting OUFC to make a few quid.

Be careful what you wish for. Last time we played at The Hawthorns, it was a windy soul destroying stadium just like the KasStad only bigger. And one of our mainstay players broke his leg from a ridiculous challenge that went unpunished by referee on nodding terms with higher league players.

On seeding, lets not forget that Premiershit teams threatened to pull out of the competition without seedings and early round byes for teams in Europe. Much as I hate the business model that football has become (and The FA have so much to answer for on that), without the Premiershit teams there would be no sponsors and no prize money in the competition, and no TV coverage, rendering the competition unsustainable.

[Eric Pollard]

I want to see a normal draw, where Oxford might get lucky and have three or four ties against relatively lowly opponents and get a cup run together (when was the last time we had one of those‽)

Last season in the FA Cup. Five matches we played. And still no-one turned up and everyone whinged about prices for the decent home tie we finally got.

or where we might get a 'big' club at home and actually try to beat them rather than (as is apparently now gospel) craving an away tie where we might make a few more bob.

I crave an away tie because home games at the Kassam are soul-destroyingly crap. Plus I might get to visit a new ground and/or some new pubs. I might even get to go to a decent football ground. You know, one with with four sides - maybe even a terrace. Bring on away games I say! Especially at big clubs. And that has nothing to do with wanting OUFC to make a few quid.

Be careful what you wish for. Last time we played at The Hawthorns, it was a windy soul destroying stadium just like the KasStad only bigger. And one of our mainstay players broke his leg from a ridiculous challenge that went unpunished by referee on nodding terms with higher league players.

On seeding, lets not forget that Premiershit teams threatened to pull out of the competition without seedings and early round byes for teams in Europe. Much as I hate the business model that football has become (and The FA have so much to answer for on that), without the Premiershit teams there would be no sponsors and no prize money in the competition, and no TV coverage, rendering the competition unsustainable.

Yes, but let's not also forget that without any paying supporters there would be precious little interest in the competition either.

To whit ,and on a separate matter, I am pleased to see there that there is now some organised protest re ticket prices. Separately, I read that last season there were 170,000 empty seats at games at Emirates Stadium last season due to some season ticket holders not bothering to pitch up at games. And moves are now afoot to maybe kick out the part-timers as ST holders. Maybe the commercial worm is turning. It's about time.

[GodalmingYellow]

Yes, but let's not also forget that without any paying supporters there would be precious little interest in the competition either.

To whit ,and on a separate matter, I am pleased to see there that there is now some organised protest re ticket prices. Separately, I read that last season there were 170,000 empty seats at games at Emirates Stadium last season due to some season ticket holders not bothering to pitch up at games. And moves are now afoot to maybe kick out the part-timers as ST holders. Maybe the commercial worm is turning. It's about time.

I agree with your points generally, but not quite sure how lack of ticket sales is relevant tot his competition, as there will always be paying supporters for lower ranked clubs. The competition itself is funded by sponsorship and distribution of gate money from higher supported teams.

[Kairdiff Exile]

On seeding, lets not forget that Premiershit teams threatened to pull out of the competition without seedings and early round byes for teams in Europe. Much as I hate the business model that football has become (and The FA have so much to answer for on that), without the Premiershit teams there would be no sponsors and no prize money in the competition, and no TV coverage, rendering the competition unsustainable.

I think you're probably right that the competition needs an overhaul to make it sustainable - probably combined with scrapping the JPT and making it the only midweek domestic cup competition for league clubs. But I don't buy the argument that we need to prostrate ourselves at the feet of Premiershit clubs or corporate sponsors. There are plenty of people who would pay to watch a decent domestic cup competition, especially one in which their lower-ranked team stood a chance of putting a run together against higher-ranked opposition; meanwhile, a carrot like a UEFA Cup place for the winner could entice the 'bigger' sides to take part.

By the same token, I'd love to see a Champions League place allocated to the FA Cup winner (on the basis that winning a cup is a damn sight more memorable for the fans than finishing fourth); it'd re-energise some Premiershit sides who don't take the competition seriously enough, and give an even greater allure to any lower-league side who managed to cause an upset.

To whit ,and on a separate matter, I am pleased to see there that there is now some organised protest re ticket prices. Separately, I read that last season there were 170,000 empty seats at games at Emirates Stadium last season due to some season ticket holders not bothering to pitch up at games. And moves are now afoot to maybe kick out the part-timers as ST holders. Maybe the commercial worm is turning. It's about time.

Yes, although it's worth saying that the law is an ass on the subject of ticketing at the moment. If I understand it correctly, I'd be a criminal if I lent my season ticket for a PL side to a mate for a game and he gave me a tenner in return to buy a bottle of wine as a thank-you - but if I put a spare PL ticket onto a 'secondary ticketing partner' website (for which read 'legal ticket-touting bastard' website) I could quite legitimately sell it for five times the price to a total stranger. Understand the morality of that one? I don't.