Time, gentleman, please
Time, gentleman, please
You could live with six straight defeats if there was a long term strategy going on in the background.
But there isn't.
There are no young local lads in, or even close to the team.
There is not settled XI.
None of the mistakes from last year have been learned from.
There is no plan A, let alone B, C or D.
We have turned down 200k for a striker who doesn't get more than 10 minute cameos.
Things are badly wrong.
Thanks for getting us back in the league, good luck with your future career.
But there isn't.
There are no young local lads in, or even close to the team.
There is not settled XI.
None of the mistakes from last year have been learned from.
There is no plan A, let alone B, C or D.
We have turned down 200k for a striker who doesn't get more than 10 minute cameos.
Things are badly wrong.
Thanks for getting us back in the league, good luck with your future career.
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
That's the tipping point for me.
I agree with all YF Dan's points and conclusion.
Even now, it will be difficult to gain promotion this season, so allowing the position to continue into Tuesday is not sensible in my view, as it could easily result in another home defeat and a terrible effect on promotion chances and also crowds.
CW has done a good job with the club getting us back into the league. If he goes now, he will leave with head held high and memories of a decent manager. If he hangs on to the bitter end, he risks souring his record.
I agree with all YF Dan's points and conclusion.
Even now, it will be difficult to gain promotion this season, so allowing the position to continue into Tuesday is not sensible in my view, as it could easily result in another home defeat and a terrible effect on promotion chances and also crowds.
CW has done a good job with the club getting us back into the league. If he goes now, he will leave with head held high and memories of a decent manager. If he hangs on to the bitter end, he risks souring his record.
Re: Time, gentleman, please
I agree as well
6 defeats on the bounce is bad enough but the players look dejected, almost looking like they expect to concede
6 defeats on the bounce is bad enough but the players look dejected, almost looking like they expect to concede
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
While I agree that 6 defeats on the bounce can never be considered acceptable for a club with our resources and ambitions, I find it odd that the tipping point for anyone could come after arguably the least winnable of those games. Especially as reports of Saturday's game make it sound like we could easily have taken at least a point (though I wasn't at the match, Jerome).
Losing valiantly at Rotherham is hardly a crime, and I don't see how the outlook today is worse than it was this time last week, after a capitulation at home to Bradford.
For me, we have to now win on Tuesday, and then get at least a draw on Saturday. Failure to do either of those things should mean Wilder is relieved of his duties immediately. If we manage both, then CW should be allowed to prove that he can turn it round again, but the chairman should be setting clearly defined points targets month-by-month, which have to be met (no excuses) to avoid losing his job.
I guess we'll know more tomorrow morning anyway, when IL gives his much-hyped radio interview...
Losing valiantly at Rotherham is hardly a crime, and I don't see how the outlook today is worse than it was this time last week, after a capitulation at home to Bradford.
For me, we have to now win on Tuesday, and then get at least a draw on Saturday. Failure to do either of those things should mean Wilder is relieved of his duties immediately. If we manage both, then CW should be allowed to prove that he can turn it round again, but the chairman should be setting clearly defined points targets month-by-month, which have to be met (no excuses) to avoid losing his job.
I guess we'll know more tomorrow morning anyway, when IL gives his much-hyped radio interview...
Re: Time, gentleman, please
I didn't hear the interview, Jerome, so can anyone post the brief details?
I was at the game however, my first of the season. It's never acceptable to lose 6 on the bounce, but to complain about the lack of a settled XI given the injury problems we have had seems a bit churlish. Actually I think the reaction would be worse if Wilder played the same XI in each game!
However, I was very surprised that Wilder dropped Clarke, I presume there was no injury? I thought Brown looked like a keeper who hasn't played in a few months, it was a shambles at times, as he couldn't catch and didn't try to punch until the end. Every cross looked like it was going to create a chance. The defence looked dicey throughout - how much was due to Brown in goal and how much due to general crapness, I can't say. And although in the end we easily could have got a point with the late goalmouth scramble, we were actually pretty fortunate to only be a goal down at the time.
I thought going forward we looked fairly dangerous and the midfield, with Worley throwing himself around held it's own, but Rayner looked completely overpowered by Odejayi and a lot of our problems stemmed from that (this is a game we really missed Duberry). Also, a word on Batt - if you're having a bad run I think you expect a bit more from your senior players, but the first goal stemmed from a panicky wild clearance from Batt that he should have cleared way up the pitch, then after Rotherham hit the post his attempted tackle on Odejayi (who was nowhere near the goal) was appalling, I genuinely don't know what he was thinking. I have some sympathy with the manager when things like that happen, as it's not like we have another fit right back.
So if I was looking at the game to try and judge Wilder, I'd say he made a major, possibly game losing, error in picking Brown (although I don't know how bad Clarke has got) but other than that the team looked like it was still together, they looked pretty well organised despite starting 3-4-3 and then changing to 4-3-3 after about 2 minutes. I think the team did go more direct than what I saw last season and after saying we'd go more direct I expected Constable to start but actually Craddock did very well up front on his own. So in conclusion, er, I don't know.
I was at the game however, my first of the season. It's never acceptable to lose 6 on the bounce, but to complain about the lack of a settled XI given the injury problems we have had seems a bit churlish. Actually I think the reaction would be worse if Wilder played the same XI in each game!
However, I was very surprised that Wilder dropped Clarke, I presume there was no injury? I thought Brown looked like a keeper who hasn't played in a few months, it was a shambles at times, as he couldn't catch and didn't try to punch until the end. Every cross looked like it was going to create a chance. The defence looked dicey throughout - how much was due to Brown in goal and how much due to general crapness, I can't say. And although in the end we easily could have got a point with the late goalmouth scramble, we were actually pretty fortunate to only be a goal down at the time.
I thought going forward we looked fairly dangerous and the midfield, with Worley throwing himself around held it's own, but Rayner looked completely overpowered by Odejayi and a lot of our problems stemmed from that (this is a game we really missed Duberry). Also, a word on Batt - if you're having a bad run I think you expect a bit more from your senior players, but the first goal stemmed from a panicky wild clearance from Batt that he should have cleared way up the pitch, then after Rotherham hit the post his attempted tackle on Odejayi (who was nowhere near the goal) was appalling, I genuinely don't know what he was thinking. I have some sympathy with the manager when things like that happen, as it's not like we have another fit right back.
So if I was looking at the game to try and judge Wilder, I'd say he made a major, possibly game losing, error in picking Brown (although I don't know how bad Clarke has got) but other than that the team looked like it was still together, they looked pretty well organised despite starting 3-4-3 and then changing to 4-3-3 after about 2 minutes. I think the team did go more direct than what I saw last season and after saying we'd go more direct I expected Constable to start but actually Craddock did very well up front on his own. So in conclusion, er, I don't know.
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
This is the Mail's take on it - essentially IL says it would be unfair to judge CW until he's got a full squad to select from. Though he does say "it will not be long before such a judgement can be made"."Isaac" wrote:I didn't hear the interview, Jerome, so can anyone post the brief details?
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
Short-term, the way I see it:
Draw or lose tomorrow night - Wilder out, immediately.
Win tomorrow - stay of execution.
Minimum 10 points from the subsequant five games (Gills H, PV A, Accy H, Rochdale A, Whycome A) - Wilder stays and gets full support.
Anything less - he goes.
Draw or lose tomorrow night - Wilder out, immediately.
Win tomorrow - stay of execution.
Minimum 10 points from the subsequant five games (Gills H, PV A, Accy H, Rochdale A, Whycome A) - Wilder stays and gets full support.
Anything less - he goes.
Re: Time, gentleman, please
I'm just tired of making excuses for the guy. Predictable play gets predictably beaten does not make for entertainment.
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
Perhaps we could bottle some 'spirit of the Ryder Cup' and feed it to the players.
Six, or even ten, straight wins and we would all feel totally different.
Six, or even ten, straight wins and we would all feel totally different.
Re: Time, gentleman, please
Whilst I may not disagree with any of you (and I don't) I still feel it's vital that we append our pleas for a timely end with a plan for how to go forward from here.
i.e. we MUST have something better in place. And I'm really not sure I want another Graham Rix, nor another Darren Patterson.
I hear Mourinho is definitely coming back to England when his time in Madrid is up. Can we wait that long do we think?
i.e. we MUST have something better in place. And I'm really not sure I want another Graham Rix, nor another Darren Patterson.
I hear Mourinho is definitely coming back to England when his time in Madrid is up. Can we wait that long do we think?
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
Surely if we've learnt one thing from the last 15 years, it's that the only way to find a manager is through a proper recruitment process - advertising the job and carrying out a thorough interview process. Not 'lining someone up', especially as I don't have faith that anyone at board level at the football club at the moment has sufficient football knowledge to line up the right person."BigCrompy" wrote:Whilst I may not disagree with any of you (and I don't) I still feel it's vital that we append our pleas for a timely end with a plan for how to go forward from here.
i.e. we MUST have something better in place. And I'm really not sure I want another Graham Rix, nor another Darren Patterson.
Having said that, one of my biggest worries is 'what happens next?' if we give Wilder the push and put the recruitment wheels in motion. Does anyone really think that a few weeks with Lewis and/or Melville in charge would be an improvement on what we have now? They're coaching the players at the moment, and don't seem able to get them to perform to an acceptable standard.
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Re: Time, gentleman, please
^^^^^^^^^^^^^"Kernow Yellow" wrote:Surely if we've learnt one thing from the last 15 years, it's that the only way to find a manager is through a proper recruitment process - advertising the job and carrying out a thorough interview process. Not 'lining someone up', especially as I don't have faith that anyone at board level at the football club at the moment has sufficient football knowledge to line up the right person.
That.
On a related note, my heart sank when I saw the article in today's Oxford Fail, in which our beloved chairman says:
As the first commentor on the story asks, since when has OUFC been a franchise? If you're already struggling to make Oxford fans think you're a 'football person' who has the interests of the club at heart, that sort of language doesn't do much to help your cause."[new directors] can be very useful to take the pulse of fans generally and to help us grow and push forward the franchise"
Re: Time, gentleman, please
Very often you find that the last game in a manager's reign involves a desparate move to revive things, which works in his head but not on the field (eg someone out of position, a strange formation, a surprise callup, etc) - so I did wonder whether the call up of Brown may have been that moment for Wilder (or indeed Worley in midfield), but seemingly not. I just hope that things do not get even more bizarre (calling up Lewis or Melville for instance)!
Re: Time, gentleman, please
OK, yes, spot on and I don't disagree with you for a minute..."Kernow Yellow" wrote:Surely if we've learnt one thing from the last 15 years, it's that the only way to find a manager is through a proper recruitment process - advertising the job and carrying out a thorough interview process. Not 'lining someone up', especially as I don't have faith that anyone at board level at the football club at the moment has sufficient football knowledge to line up the right person."BigCrompy" wrote:Whilst I may not disagree with any of you (and I don't) I still feel it's vital that we append our pleas for a timely end with a plan for how to go forward from here.
i.e. we MUST have something better in place. And I'm really not sure I want another Graham Rix, nor another Darren Patterson.
Having said that, one of my biggest worries is 'what happens next?' if we give Wilder the push and put the recruitment wheels in motion. Does anyone really think that a few weeks with Lewis and/or Melville in charge would be an improvement on what we have now? They're coaching the players at the moment, and don't seem able to get them to perform to an acceptable standard.
...but if I rephrase my point, doesn't it still endure?
Who's out there that might put themselves forward for a proper recruitment process, even if we don't 'line them up'? Loaded question perhaps as I don't know if anyone would have predicted Wilder being appointed before the process, and at least initally he was thought off as a diamond in the rough.
However, could I challenge readers to give a few names who MIGHT be seen as boons for this football club, are available to us NOW, may have a name that might attract a decent player or two, are not crackpot failures from other clubs or clogging midfielders on the verge of retirement that feel they've a divine right to walk into a management job simply because they once stood on the same park as Sir Alex for 90 minutes, and have an IQ higher than my shoe size.
My point being, is there enough available in the talent pool to risk losing/booting what we have?
Or, would most readers prefer an appointment from another club's bootroom?
Re: Time, gentleman, please
Going by the odds for other League 1&2 posts currently or recently available (And discounting those that have a particular connection to the club in question), the main names that keep coming up are:
- Sean Dyche (booted from Watford to make room for Zola)
- Brian Laws (former Scunnie, Sheff W, Burnley, now DoF Shamrock Rovers)
- Andy Scott (yes, that one - former Brentford (incl D2 prom), Rotherham
Others that come slightly lower down the lists but will probably get a mention include:
- Steve Cotterill (Former Cheltenham, Burnley, Portsmuth, Forest)
- Andy Thorne (former Coventry)
- Phil Brown (former Hull, Preston)
- Dennis Wise (Former Slumdon, Leeds, DoF NEwcastle)
- Paul Ince (Former Slumdon, Macc, MKD, Blackburn, MKD, Notts County)
OF these Wise and Ince both have the Slumdon factor, plus more importantly have not covered themselves in glory in their most recent appointments.
Thorne and to an extent Dyche have only a year in management, albeit in the Championship so would perhaps be a risk.
Laws, Brown and Cotterill have the experience, while Scott did very well during 4yrs with Brentford.
NOw I dont know enough to comment about the different styles these guys have their teams playing (though I get the sense that anyone who prefers 4-4-2 will go down well with supporters at Oxford), but I would imagine that Laws, Scott, Cotterill and Dyche will probably top the lists when they appear, though of course which will apply will be another question.....
I dont know much about their respective styles, competencies, etc, just listing the names that the bookies are talking about......
- Sean Dyche (booted from Watford to make room for Zola)
- Brian Laws (former Scunnie, Sheff W, Burnley, now DoF Shamrock Rovers)
- Andy Scott (yes, that one - former Brentford (incl D2 prom), Rotherham
Others that come slightly lower down the lists but will probably get a mention include:
- Steve Cotterill (Former Cheltenham, Burnley, Portsmuth, Forest)
- Andy Thorne (former Coventry)
- Phil Brown (former Hull, Preston)
- Dennis Wise (Former Slumdon, Leeds, DoF NEwcastle)
- Paul Ince (Former Slumdon, Macc, MKD, Blackburn, MKD, Notts County)
OF these Wise and Ince both have the Slumdon factor, plus more importantly have not covered themselves in glory in their most recent appointments.
Thorne and to an extent Dyche have only a year in management, albeit in the Championship so would perhaps be a risk.
Laws, Brown and Cotterill have the experience, while Scott did very well during 4yrs with Brentford.
NOw I dont know enough to comment about the different styles these guys have their teams playing (though I get the sense that anyone who prefers 4-4-2 will go down well with supporters at Oxford), but I would imagine that Laws, Scott, Cotterill and Dyche will probably top the lists when they appear, though of course which will apply will be another question.....
I dont know much about their respective styles, competencies, etc, just listing the names that the bookies are talking about......