Has Wilder taken the club as far as he can?
I was at Burton yesterday, again no-one has posted about the game! It was truly woeful.
If the answer is, yes he he should go, who would realistically replace him?
thought on a postcard please....
PS - this forum desperately needs to generate some traffic. The number of posts compared to YellowForum is extremely low....
Wilder Out?
Re: Wilder Out?
Let's get one thing out of the way - I think it is pointless saying who we would want to replace CW, when at the same time we criticise owners who have not gone through a proper selection process, rather than the sort of cherry-picking this implies.
As for the game, individual performances were shockingly poor, even after ignoring the likes of Heslop, who should not have been on the pitch in the first place. When we had the ball, passing and movement were awful when they had the ball, the closing down and the, ahem, tackling, was awful. For three league games in a row, we have seen whatever confidence they supposedly had from the initially good start to the season disappear in a puff of wind. We had no creativity in midfield. Standing at the end for a change, rather than sitting up in the gods along the side, I could see so clearly how thin we were in the midfield (despite, according to the Oxford Mail, us starting supposedly with 3-4-3 rather than 4-3-3). No wonder much of the forward movement came from hit and hope hoofs over the top. Too many players looked disinterested. As amershamwrighty suggests elsewhere, Clarke does not look the player he was, whilst Chapman is not the quality player we perhaps hoped he might become. In short, even our better players are not delivering.
The decline I have seen over the last three league games has been truly appalling. Which is the more likely - all these players coincidentally having downturns in form at the same time, or something being very wrong behind the scenes? There may or may not be issues with how IL is running things, but would that have such a dramatic effect on the players collectively? Or is there something wrong between the players and CW?
At the end of last season, both injuries and tiredness/lack of fitness were offered as reasons/excuses for the way the season petered out. Looking back, however, across the calendar year 2012, poor play and bad results have been the norm, not the exception to be excused. If fitness is better, then attitude is exposed more clearly as an underlying problem. But again, to happen to the group of players, is that coincidence or a sign of something very wrong between the players and CW? To quote amershamwrighty, I am not a footie manager - but the evidence (well, I am an empirical social scientist) is starting to raise some serious questions about CWs management of the squad. After the Exeter game, I was staggered at how many people came onto RadOx and said they thought we could go up with these players and this manager. After yesterday's showing, I have started to find such a suggestion funny - pathetically, hysterically, funny.
As for the game, individual performances were shockingly poor, even after ignoring the likes of Heslop, who should not have been on the pitch in the first place. When we had the ball, passing and movement were awful when they had the ball, the closing down and the, ahem, tackling, was awful. For three league games in a row, we have seen whatever confidence they supposedly had from the initially good start to the season disappear in a puff of wind. We had no creativity in midfield. Standing at the end for a change, rather than sitting up in the gods along the side, I could see so clearly how thin we were in the midfield (despite, according to the Oxford Mail, us starting supposedly with 3-4-3 rather than 4-3-3). No wonder much of the forward movement came from hit and hope hoofs over the top. Too many players looked disinterested. As amershamwrighty suggests elsewhere, Clarke does not look the player he was, whilst Chapman is not the quality player we perhaps hoped he might become. In short, even our better players are not delivering.
The decline I have seen over the last three league games has been truly appalling. Which is the more likely - all these players coincidentally having downturns in form at the same time, or something being very wrong behind the scenes? There may or may not be issues with how IL is running things, but would that have such a dramatic effect on the players collectively? Or is there something wrong between the players and CW?
At the end of last season, both injuries and tiredness/lack of fitness were offered as reasons/excuses for the way the season petered out. Looking back, however, across the calendar year 2012, poor play and bad results have been the norm, not the exception to be excused. If fitness is better, then attitude is exposed more clearly as an underlying problem. But again, to happen to the group of players, is that coincidence or a sign of something very wrong between the players and CW? To quote amershamwrighty, I am not a footie manager - but the evidence (well, I am an empirical social scientist) is starting to raise some serious questions about CWs management of the squad. After the Exeter game, I was staggered at how many people came onto RadOx and said they thought we could go up with these players and this manager. After yesterday's showing, I have started to find such a suggestion funny - pathetically, hysterically, funny.
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GodalmingYellow
- Senile
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Re: Wilder Out?
I didn't go to the game Jerome, so I won't comment on performances, or formations, or selections.
I will say that Raynes looked a fantastic player in the first 2 league games- best signing for years, and many of us were wondering how Dubes was ever going to get back in the team. No player drops to liability status insuch a short period without good reason. And I'm not saying Raynes is liability status, he's a very good player, he is just being put under too much pressure, like the entire back line, because of what is going on further up the ptch and off the field.
The only other comment I have to make is 4, yet again 4. That is all.
I will say that Raynes looked a fantastic player in the first 2 league games- best signing for years, and many of us were wondering how Dubes was ever going to get back in the team. No player drops to liability status insuch a short period without good reason. And I'm not saying Raynes is liability status, he's a very good player, he is just being put under too much pressure, like the entire back line, because of what is going on further up the ptch and off the field.
The only other comment I have to make is 4, yet again 4. That is all.
Last edited by GodalmingYellow on Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Wilder Out?
I started writing some thoughts on the game last night, but decided they were too knee-jerk and negative. We left after 80 minutes, which is a record watching Oxford (and that includes some of the away-game batterings we saw back in the late 1990s/early 2000s in the 'relegation years'). I thought - naively perhaps - that the York game was just a blip, even though the body language on display there seemed negative. There was more of that yesterday, most obviously seen when the players ran towards the away end to do their pre-match warmup routines. Contrast that with the opposition. Watch Oxford come out 3-4 minutes before Burton for the second half, and reflect on what that might imply to the Burton players. Watch small knots of Oxford players talking to each other and gesticulating ...
Formation? 532, but no - only Smalley up front, 523 - maybe, 343 - perhaps - 361 - what it looked like to me. It was the worst of all worlds - little threat up front, nobody in the box when crosses did go in, and plenty of space for Burton to attack down the flanks. At York, it bothered me somewhat in the second half to see Batt - on the right - without a single player in front of him 'down the channel' - in the second half yesterday I watched the same thing from the other end - the result for him was a torrid afternoon - isolated and vulnerable, and essentially picked off by Burton.
Midfield? Hardly worthy of the name. Heslop shouldn't be playing at this level Boateng looked awkward, Chapman was busy but ineffective. The whole game seemed to me to hinge on the complete lack of an effective midfield, and the victims were Batt and Raynes (who looks like a panic buy to me). So - no protection for the defence, and no contribution to attack - a game of hopeful long-balls aimed vaguely at Smalley and Potter. Rigg was anonymous.
Had Oxford taken any of the chances at the start of the second half I suppose the game might have changed in character, but barring JPP (who was my Oxford MoM), the same failings soon became apparent ...
This was a dreadful, execrable game from the Oxford perspective. Until some of the midfield injuries clear up, I suspect there will be more of the same. I can't quite see why the latest loanee wasn't plugging the obvious (and mile wide) gap which is the midfield. Wilder out? Personally, I think the rumours and whisperings suggest that he's had enough and wants out, and/or that the Board (what's left of it) have had enough of him. Only a matter of time, I suspect. If the side ships another four goals on Tuesday I suspect he'll be on his way. But - we have gradually improved in his time with us, surely? Nearly two years ago, I watched Burton beat Oxford 1-0 in the FAC - what I saw yesterday was a side playing exotic tactics, a side with literally no midfield, and the perception of players who are not enjoying life. When players are reportedly swearing at the fans, there is trouble ... the point being, there was nothing yesterday to suggest the team will do anything other this season than fight off relegation.
Dr Bob and myself - while stuck in a traffic jam on the A50 - were wondering if Oxford hold the record amongst BSP / League 2 clubs for the most amount of loanees. Do we?
Formation? 532, but no - only Smalley up front, 523 - maybe, 343 - perhaps - 361 - what it looked like to me. It was the worst of all worlds - little threat up front, nobody in the box when crosses did go in, and plenty of space for Burton to attack down the flanks. At York, it bothered me somewhat in the second half to see Batt - on the right - without a single player in front of him 'down the channel' - in the second half yesterday I watched the same thing from the other end - the result for him was a torrid afternoon - isolated and vulnerable, and essentially picked off by Burton.
Midfield? Hardly worthy of the name. Heslop shouldn't be playing at this level Boateng looked awkward, Chapman was busy but ineffective. The whole game seemed to me to hinge on the complete lack of an effective midfield, and the victims were Batt and Raynes (who looks like a panic buy to me). So - no protection for the defence, and no contribution to attack - a game of hopeful long-balls aimed vaguely at Smalley and Potter. Rigg was anonymous.
Had Oxford taken any of the chances at the start of the second half I suppose the game might have changed in character, but barring JPP (who was my Oxford MoM), the same failings soon became apparent ...
This was a dreadful, execrable game from the Oxford perspective. Until some of the midfield injuries clear up, I suspect there will be more of the same. I can't quite see why the latest loanee wasn't plugging the obvious (and mile wide) gap which is the midfield. Wilder out? Personally, I think the rumours and whisperings suggest that he's had enough and wants out, and/or that the Board (what's left of it) have had enough of him. Only a matter of time, I suspect. If the side ships another four goals on Tuesday I suspect he'll be on his way. But - we have gradually improved in his time with us, surely? Nearly two years ago, I watched Burton beat Oxford 1-0 in the FAC - what I saw yesterday was a side playing exotic tactics, a side with literally no midfield, and the perception of players who are not enjoying life. When players are reportedly swearing at the fans, there is trouble ... the point being, there was nothing yesterday to suggest the team will do anything other this season than fight off relegation.
Dr Bob and myself - while stuck in a traffic jam on the A50 - were wondering if Oxford hold the record amongst BSP / League 2 clubs for the most amount of loanees. Do we?
Re: Wilder Out?
This has been my issue all along with CW, even in BSP days. We have always tried to fill our squad with loan players.
I dread to think of the success rate with loanees, in fact im not even going to try and work it out.
Have the players now grown tired of CW and his methods? Again i dont know but the Coventry talk could again prove unsettling.
I dread to think of the success rate with loanees, in fact im not even going to try and work it out.
Have the players now grown tired of CW and his methods? Again i dont know but the Coventry talk could again prove unsettling.
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Kernow Yellow
- Grumpy old git
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Re: Wilder Out?
You think Coventry might be considering appointing a manager whose fancied League 2 side have shipped 11 goals in three games? I somehow suspect their interest is fading fast..."OUFanatic" wrote: the Coventry talk could again prove unsettling.
Re: Wilder Out?
Have we lost every game (except Slumdon) since the draw for the 1st Round JPT game against Slumdon was made?
If so, is this another case (like last season) of too much emphasis being placed on beating them?
Beating them did us no good last season (despite chest beating by some who seemed to think it mattered more than promotion) and it doesn't seem to have done us any good this season.
If so, is this another case (like last season) of too much emphasis being placed on beating them?
Beating them did us no good last season (despite chest beating by some who seemed to think it mattered more than promotion) and it doesn't seem to have done us any good this season.
Re: Wilder Out?
He ain't the problem at #OUFC, though using 38 different players last season didn't help - http://www.rageonline.co.uk/mainpage.ph ... son_id=119
And now he's fucked given our recent form unless a Conference team with some dosh to spend comes in for him.
And now he's fucked given our recent form unless a Conference team with some dosh to spend comes in for him.
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Joey's Toe
- Puberty
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Re: Wilder Out?
All things bright and beautiful,"Snake" wrote:...using 38 different players last season didn't help
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
Chris Wilder signs them all.
What, PWOPA fucked?"Snake" wrote:And now he's fucked given our recent form
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Out of the gloom
- Puberty
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- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:41 pm
Re: Wilder Out?
If we are to apportion blame, not a particularly constructive exercise, then the question is whether recent transfers have been driven by budget dictated by IL and/or salary cap, or what I call CW’s ‘freneticism’.
The squad could, and IMO should, have been finalised in early August. With McGinty’s loan to be ratified and decisions made on the three trialists who went to the US. It is September and none of the four remain at the club, yet two new faces have arrived – instability.
On seeing the Bristol teamsheet I thought the squad was good enough, but needed an extra midfielder. To date our poor performances have been without Cox.
The pattern of last season has continued. Injuries happen, new players in as cover, changes in tactics and formations, square pegs in round holes and lack of continuity.
IL and CW are under pressure, as they should be, but it won’t change the past. Three points tomorrow is a change both now need.
The squad could, and IMO should, have been finalised in early August. With McGinty’s loan to be ratified and decisions made on the three trialists who went to the US. It is September and none of the four remain at the club, yet two new faces have arrived – instability.
On seeing the Bristol teamsheet I thought the squad was good enough, but needed an extra midfielder. To date our poor performances have been without Cox.
The pattern of last season has continued. Injuries happen, new players in as cover, changes in tactics and formations, square pegs in round holes and lack of continuity.
IL and CW are under pressure, as they should be, but it won’t change the past. Three points tomorrow is a change both now need.
Re: Wilder Out?
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/D ... 26,00.html"Snake" wrote:He ain't the problem at #OUFC, though using 38 different players last season didn't help - http://www.rageonline.co.uk/mainpage.ph ... son_id=119
And now he's fucked given our recent form unless a Conference team with some dosh to spend comes in for him.
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joepoolman
- Mid-life Crisis
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Re: Wilder Out?
The first 6 games following the first derby match last season we Won 2, Drew 3, and Lost 1."theox" wrote:Have we lost every game (except Slumdon) since the draw for the 1st Round JPT game against Slumdon was made?
If so, is this another case (like last season) of too much emphasis being placed on beating them?
Beating them did us no good last season (despite chest beating by some who seemed to think it mattered more than promotion) and it doesn't seem to have done us any good this season.
" " " " " " second " " " " " Won 3, Drew 2 and Lost 1.
If you take the 12 games as a whole we earned 1.67 (3sf) points per game, compared to 1.41 (3sf) points per game for the other 34 league games.
Furthermore if you add in the 2 games previous to each of the Slumdon games last season as well as the 6 following the points per game goes up to 1.875.
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recordmeister
- Middle-Aged Spread
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- Location: London
Re: Wilder Out?
I don't think Cov are the answer, I think if CW goes, it'll be to Chesterfield.
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Ancient Colin
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Re: Wilder Out?
I think I have been fairly consistent in my concerns over Wilder's management from back in the Conference. But the discussions about transfer policy (I see we have another small defender signed) led me to muse on another question. How many players that have arrived at Oxford over the Wilder regime have left (or even stayed and become) a better, stronger player*? A good coaching staff and management should improve players ... a good scouting system will uncover "rough diamonds". There may be examples, but I am scratching around to think of them.
* and, by that, I don't mean players who were released and then turned out to be good after all ... I mean players who actually improved noticably in their time at Oxford.
* and, by that, I don't mean players who were released and then turned out to be good after all ... I mean players who actually improved noticably in their time at Oxford.
Re: Wilder Out?
Two things:
i) Is it a matter of CW not getting the best out of who we have in the squad, or not having the right squad? Answer may well influence how soon a change happens &/or how soon any new man can make a difference.
ii) While yes, it is largely a pointless exercise saying who we want as the new boss, there are perhaps a few clues on the type of person out there at the moment that we might attract with the bookies lists for other jobs at the moment....
Favourites (from memory) for the Coventry job (division higher but no money) - Robins (expected to be appointed today), Ince, Shaw, Appleton, Money, Phil Brown, Staunton,
Chesterfield (same division) - Sean Dyche, tommy Wright (caretaker), Brian Laws, Gary Flitcroft, Chris Brass, Mickey Adams
Bury (same division) - McILroy, Shirtliff, Thorne, Flitcroft, Eyre, Morrell, Andy Scott(!)
Other possibles - Mike Ford, Simon Leneghan, Les Ferdinand
Of those, who floats the boat at being able of taking us forward from here.........>?
i) Is it a matter of CW not getting the best out of who we have in the squad, or not having the right squad? Answer may well influence how soon a change happens &/or how soon any new man can make a difference.
ii) While yes, it is largely a pointless exercise saying who we want as the new boss, there are perhaps a few clues on the type of person out there at the moment that we might attract with the bookies lists for other jobs at the moment....
Favourites (from memory) for the Coventry job (division higher but no money) - Robins (expected to be appointed today), Ince, Shaw, Appleton, Money, Phil Brown, Staunton,
Chesterfield (same division) - Sean Dyche, tommy Wright (caretaker), Brian Laws, Gary Flitcroft, Chris Brass, Mickey Adams
Bury (same division) - McILroy, Shirtliff, Thorne, Flitcroft, Eyre, Morrell, Andy Scott(!)
Other possibles - Mike Ford, Simon Leneghan, Les Ferdinand
Of those, who floats the boat at being able of taking us forward from here.........>?