Creeping out early

[Dr Bob]

I'm so worried by the PC brigade that I feel guilty every time I hold a door open for a female!

Here's a way to avoid those feelings - show that degree of civility towards everybody.

Joe Ross may or may not have been a poor ref., but the colour of his skin was irrelevant to that. A female lino may be good or bad, but her gender is irrelevant. Like it or not, verbal abuse of poor officials is with us - but that is a totally different thing to bringing a person's race, gender or any other personal characteristic into it.

[pottersrightboot]

I'm so worried by the PC brigade that I feel guilty every time I hold a door open for a female!

Your behaviour is patronising and you should be reported to the 'appropriate authorities'.

Back to the lino last week,she wasn't very good, that was the point and indeed would have been better off 'staying in the kitchen'.

I tried to start a chant about the ludicrously useless referee last week

'You should have stayed in the potting shed'. But it didn't scan.

[Boogie]

I only think it is the way you hold the door open that is an issue.

I slow down and keep my arm in the door for everyone if I see that someone else is within reach.

I do, however, see men stopping and opening doors wide for women which 30 years ago was probably the norm but nowadays is seen by a large number as condescending.

[Radley Rambler]

I only think it is the way you hold the door open that is an issue.

I slow down and keep my arm in the door for everyone if I see that someone else is within reach. I do, however, see men stopping and opening doors wide for women which 30 years ago was probably the norm but nowadays is seen by a large number as condescending.

Good - just make sure you don't pat them on the bottom as they walk past you. That's so 1960s.

[Hog]

I'm so worried by the PC brigade that I feel guilty every time I hold a door open for a female!

Here's a way to avoid those feelings - show that degree of civility towards everybody.

Of course I do Dr B but it doesn't help how I feel when it's a lady!

[GodalmingYellow]

[quote=&quotjoepoolman&quot][quote=&quotSnake&quot]

Ok. I’ll clear up my point. Racism at football is a no-no for 90%|| of people these days, but sexism is still fine for some it seems. Throwing bananas at black players used to be seen as funny and acceptable once upon a time, but now in 2011 it’s seen as ‘harmless banter’ or ‘not too bad’ to use a person’s gender as ammunition to start up a hilarious (?) terrace chant.

FFS, half the population are female and we need as many paying customers into Minchery Farm as possible to move onwards and upwards. And besides, there are no statistics available to prove that female officials are as blind as their male compatriots at our Fourth Division level let alone considering the fact that the Prem allow young girls to run the line at places like Anfield these days. Calling them ALL “wankers

[Snake]

I'm so worried by the PC brigade that I feel guilty every time I hold a door open for a female!

Here's a way to avoid those feelings - show that degree of civility towards everybody.

Agree – it drives me crazy when people walking in front of me just let the door close in my face.

How about giving up your seat in a bus? Anyone else dreading the moment when some well meaning youngster offers you their seat? I know I am.

[A-Ro]

I'm so worried by the PC brigade that I feel guilty every time I hold a door open for a female!

Here's a way to avoid those feelings - show that degree of civility towards everybody.

Agree – it drives me crazy when people walking in front of me just let the door close in my face.

How about giving up your seat in a bus? Anyone else dreading the moment when some well meaning youngster offers you their seat? I know I am.

I, for one, can't wait but then I do travel on the tube in rush hour.

[joepoolman]

The gaping hole in your argument there Joepoolman, is that you quite rightly assume that a black person would be offended by racist chanting, but you incorrectly assume, because it suits your argument, that a female lino wouldn't be offended by the kitchen chant.

As you correctly recognise, one of the factors in determining offensiveness, is whether the recipient feels offended. However, the bit you haven't recognised is that you don't have the right to assume that the female lino won't be offended by the chant. Everyone is different, and it may or may not be true that the majority of female linos wouldn't be offended, but that is irrelevant as you don't know the impact on this particular lino.

As Dr Bob said above, the best way to treat people is with civility and equality. Don't abuse them, unless they come from Swinedown of course!

To be honest I didn't assume that she wouldn't be offended, I just think that the vast high majority of women wouldn't be offended, seeing as it's being sung by football fans you have to take it with a massive pinch of salt anywway. And if you think about it you're making assumptions about people not being offeneded in loads of football chants for example you don't know that no Slumdon fans would be offened by us singing &quotsurrender or you die&quot, you're assuming that no one is offended by singing about how posh spice &quotlikes to flick her bean&quot, I could go on...

[headless_pnub]

But the point is I don't believe that the majority of women would be offended by a throw away comment like &quotyou should've stayed in the kitchen&quot, especially coming from some football fans, and just because I've sang a silly chant doesn't mean I don't want women in football, whatever gender, race, religon sexuality etc. In fact from what I've seen of female officials I think it's harder for them to climb the pyramid, they always seem better than the blokes.
The reason I could join in with a kitchen on and not one aimed at a black official is that I think most black people would be offended, which by definition would make it offensive.
On the point of some of the more grotesque ones, I think you must understand that when you're worked up in a football crowd with your mates it's easy to chant thngs you usually wouldn't (although this obviously isn't an excuse).

I'm sure the women of the world are thankful that you have decided their opinion for them. It really does make thinks so much easy and after all they are less likely to burn your dinner when they don't have to worry about silly things like opinions.

Are but this is football fans so it should be taken with a pinch of salt, like those bananas, oh wait...

You really haven't though your argument through have you.

[Boogie]

Within reach of the door!

[joepoolman]

I'm sure the women of the world are thankful that you have decided their opinion for them. It really does make thinks so much easy and after all they are less likely to burn your dinner when they don't have to worry about silly things like opinions.

Are but this is football fans so it should be taken with a pinch of salt, like those bananas, oh wait...

You really haven't though your argument through have you.

I don't see why you have to be so agressive. I haven't decided what women think, it's just what I believe what most women would be offended by, that's two very different things. And the bananas was a pre-meditated incident of racial hatred, there was no hatred in this, just a bit of frustration at a decision.

[Snake]

I'm sure the women of the world are thankful that you have decided their opinion for them. It really does make thinks so much easy and after all they are less likely to burn your dinner when they don't have to worry about silly things like opinions.

Are but this is football fans so it should be taken with a pinch of salt, like those bananas, oh wait...

You really haven't though your argument through have you.

I don't see why you have to be so agressive. I haven't decided what women think, it's just what I believe what most women would be offended by, that's two very different things. And the bananas was a pre-meditated incident of racial hatred, there was no hatred in this, just a bit of frustration at a decision.

I think you should stick to this thread that you started up about the price of matchday tickets and pies (as no one much is reading that so you can get away with things much better) while you learn about how to put across a reasoned and constructive point (or not). No offence intended, as when you’ve got the hang of it you can then come back with a different handle on here and no one will know. If it helps then I’m impressed by your use of apostrophes even though your spelling does let you down a bit at times.

[GodalmingYellow]

The gaping hole in your argument there Joepoolman, is that you quite rightly assume that a black person would be offended by racist chanting, but you incorrectly assume, because it suits your argument, that a female lino wouldn't be offended by the kitchen chant.

As you correctly recognise, one of the factors in determining offensiveness, is whether the recipient feels offended. However, the bit you haven't recognised is that you don't have the right to assume that the female lino won't be offended by the chant. Everyone is different, and it may or may not be true that the majority of female linos wouldn't be offended, but that is irrelevant as you don't know the impact on this particular lino.

As Dr Bob said above, the best way to treat people is with civility and equality. Don't abuse them, unless they come from Swinedown of course!

To be honest I didn't assume that she wouldn't be offended, I just think that the vast high majority of women wouldn't be offended, seeing as it's being sung by football fans you have to take it with a massive pinch of salt anywway. And if you think about it you're making assumptions about people not being offeneded in loads of football chants for example you don't know that no s*****n fans would be offened by us singing &quotsurrender or you die&quot, you're assuming that no one is offended by singing about how posh spice &quotlikes to flick her bean&quot, I could go on...

Yes you could go on and you would still be peddling rubbish.

As I said, even if the majority of women linos would not be offended (and it is yet another of your suppositions that they wouldn't) that is irrelevant as you don't know what this particular woman thinks. You can have no idea if she would be offended or not. It would be safer to assume that someone would be offended by discriminatory chanting, even if intended purely in jest.

Even if the majority of female linos didn't mind, even if this particular one didn't mind, that still doesn't account for the many female fans that OUFC relies upon for support, that you are discriminating about, by making such chants.

With all due respect, at best it is crass and ignorant.

For the record, my comment about Swinedown wasn't serious, hence the smiley face. I don't sing &quotsurrender or you die&quot to or about anyone. Nor do I refer to the shooting of Red Robins, or the parentage of those from Swinedown, nor their inter-relationships to the tune of the Adams Family theme.

Nor do I, or would I, chant about Posh Spice and her &quotbean&quot or anyone else and their flicking habits to be honest.

[slappy]

Compare the treatment of a male referee's assistant: every other match there is &quotLino, you're a c***&quot, and it is very vocal and lots join in (in the East Stand anyway).

Whereas for a female referee's assistant, it's always &quotshould have stayed in the kitchen&quot

So does that mean that the C word is not used because it is a lady lino, and might cause offence?