I keep thinking it can't get any worse...

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

I notice GOSE is at 1 Walnut Tree Close. That's not another of our misleading addresses, is it?

[GodalmingYellow]

I notice GOSE is at 1 Walnut Tree Close. That's not another of our misleading addresses, is it?

Well there are no walnut trees down there now. Whether there used to be I've no idea.

The address is misleading as GOSE is on Bridge Street, which does have a bridge.

[Ancient Colin]

I notice GOSE is at 1 Walnut Tree Close. That's not another of our misleading addresses, is it?

Certainly is. Panoramic views of Guildford station and the gyratory, running down past light industry, car showrooms and retailers of uniforms. The River Wey runs past though, to wash away all sins.

[ty cobb]

Sorry Ty, I know I am regarded as a Kassam apologist, but surely the facts are this (as confirmed by IL at a fans forum).

WPL agreed a deal for both the club and the stadco initially. It was WPL who asked to proceed without the Stadco.

IL has stated he has agreed a fair price for the stadco but he hasn't come forward with the money.

From where I see it, IL came into this deal and got cold feet about matching his intended investment. If we had stayed up or gone straight back up he might have come forward with the money, but he hasn't.

He now owns three sports clubs and not one of them owns the ground it plays in.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. IL has agreed what price the stadco is worth, but hasn't decided to release the funds to buy it.

I think we've both been regarded as more pro Kassam then many other people on these boards. However, I want to ensure that the price we pay for the stadium is a fair one and one that won't cripple us for the years to come. If £13 million is the figure then from what GY says (who is the only one who's come up with a figure) we are massivly overpaying. Once the stadium is brought Kassams obligations to OUFC are over and we cannot exert any pressure on him.

From what I hear he's been playing silly beggers with the stadium sale, changing the goalposts but to be honest I don't read much into that.

If IL has got cold feet (nothing to suggest this) then we need to know and we need to start taking some action about this.

And yes I find it rather frustrating that the idiots who stormed the boardroom seem to have gone missing but lets not forget Oxvox wanted him removed as well albeit in a more dignified way!

[DLT]

I find it amazxing that an OXVOX committee member has announced on TIU that he had no comprehension that the stadium could be so valuable to Kassam when empty.

What is being discussed at your committee meetings Tim?

[GodalmingYellow]

Sorry Ty, I know I am regarded as a Kassam apologist, but surely the facts are this (as confirmed by IL at a fans forum).

WPL agreed a deal for both the club and the stadco initially. It was WPL who asked to proceed without the Stadco.

IL has stated he has agreed a fair price for the stadco but he hasn't come forward with the money.

From where I see it, IL came into this deal and got cold feet about matching his intended investment. If we had stayed up or gone straight back up he might have come forward with the money, but he hasn't.

He now owns three sports clubs and not one of them owns the ground it plays in.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. IL has agreed what price the stadco is worth, but hasn't decided to release the funds to buy it.

I think we've both been regarded as more pro Kassam then many other people on these boards. However, I want to ensure that the price we pay for the stadium is a fair one and one that won't cripple us for the years to come. If £13 million is the figure then from what GY says (who is the only one who's come up with a figure) we are massivly overpaying. Once the stadium is brought Kassams obligations to OUFC are over and we cannot exert any pressure on him.

From what I hear he's been playing silly beggers with the stadium sale, changing the goalposts but to be honest I don't read much into that.

If IL has got cold feet (nothing to suggest this) then we need to know and we need to start taking some action about this.

And yes I find it rather frustrating that the idiots who stormed the boardroom seem to have gone missing but lets not forget Oxvox wanted him removed as well albeit in a more dignified way!

Yes there has been some goal post moving, particularly on use of the car parks. But that's all pretty much par for the course in such negotiations.

The problem we have is that the stadium is not worth £13m to the club and did not cost £13m of Kassma's hard earned. But on the other foot it is worth more than £13m to Kassam especially if he perceives that it might be convertible to housing in the future. Neither side is right or wrong, though morally I would suggest Kassam's position is less tenable.

[recordmeister]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

OCC basically bent over, lubed themselves up and waited for it.

[Ascension Ox]

I find it amazxing that an OXVOX committee member has announced on TIU that he had no comprehension that the stadium could be so valuable to Kassam when empty.

What is being discussed at your committee meetings Tim?

I don't find it amazing at all. Not all Oxford United supporters know as much about the commercial world as you Dave.

It is a tricky tricky time at present. We should all be wanting to help the club, not finger pointing all the time.

But frustrations are growing, due to a lack of willingness from club to really communicate with the fanbase.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

It's far from clear that it was OCC's job to do this. Moreover it might be borne in mind that OCC prevented the Manor site being sold until the club's future elsewhere was secured, despite being under frequent pressure to do just that - and moreover to accept any deal that was on offer, regardless of whether it met the needs and requirements of the city. &quotBlame the council&quot is easy politics but it is not necessarily reasonable.

[GodalmingYellow]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

OCC basically bent over, lubed themselves up and waited for it.

OCC don't have any remit over commercial aspects of any land deal. The planners did what they could in imposing covenants, but they are meaningless if there is no one willing or able to pay the rent.

[recordmeister]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

OCC basically bent over, lubed themselves up and waited for it.

OCC don't have any remit over commercial aspects of any land deal. The planners did what they could in imposing covenants, but they are meaningless if there is no one willing or able to pay the rent.

All fair points. I guess, if OUFC ever did decide that they couldn't afford to play at the Kasstad any longer, and Kassam wanted to re-develop it into housing, it would still require planning permission from OCC to do this. To this end, they could effectivly force Kassam into selling it cut price to OUFC by refusing that it be developed. Who else is going to take a white elephant of an empty stadium off him if planning permission is consistently turned down.

I may be totally wrong about all this as I know nothing about planning etc, i am just thinking out loud!

[GodalmingYellow]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

OCC basically bent over, lubed themselves up and waited for it.

OCC don't have any remit over commercial aspects of any land deal. The planners did what they could in imposing covenants, but they are meaningless if there is no one willing or able to pay the rent.

All fair points. I guess, if OUFC ever did decide that they couldn't afford to play at the Kasstad any longer, and Kassam wanted to re-develop it into housing, it would still require planning permission from OCC to do this. To this end, they could effectivly force Kassam into selling it cut price to OUFC by refusing that it be developed. Who else is going to take a white elephant of an empty stadium off him if planning permission is consistently turned down.

I may be totally wrong about all this as I know nothing about planning etc, i am just thinking out loud!

It wouldn't work quite like that. The two possible scenarios which fit the bill are:
a)Lenagan decided the rent was too much and came to an agreement with Kassam to terminate the lease and play elsewhere, in which case the OCC would not object to planning on grounds of the covenant and Kassam would easily be able to get the covenant lifted.
or
b)The club could no longer pay the rent due to lack of cash for whatever reason (Lenagan pulls the plug, or club is sold to new owner who can't afford it, or Lenagan simply says enough is enough). Here the club would be in breach of contract and subject to sitting tenant laws could be kicked out fo the stadium by Kassam,(especially if as referred to earlier the club are occupants under license), who could then get the covenant lifted on the grounds that there was no one left to pay the rent. then OCC wouldn't object either.

[OUFC4eva]

I don't know about the &quotCity&quot being &quotlubed up&quot and shafted by FK.

Certainly Merry and Lenagan are the &quotsitting ducks&quot at the moment and FK
has them both over a barrel I reckon. I can't see how Merry can
extracate himself from this sorry mess.

This long and protracted stadium deal will rumble on and on and on. How long before Lenagan washes his hands of this business?

[Mally]

Lenagan's plan to buy the stadium was to find a partner who could co-fund the purchase in return for use of a development in a 4th stand and/or a development in the East stand. 2 years down the line and no partner has come forward. The stadium is on the wrong place for almost all potential partners. Assuming for a minute that such a partner could ever be found I have no faith in Merry's ability to do a workable deal with one and get around the planning minefield. My guess is that Lenagan has got bored with the whole thing now that he's got his hands on his first love - Wigan Warriers and the chance for owning the stadium is now all but gone. The half wits who stormed into the boardroom while Kassam was there with his daughters got exactly what they wanted and could well have screwed the club in the process. Strange that you don't see any of the ring leaders around these days isn't it?


Equally, you would have been half witted not to have been extremely angry at how the club was being run in the 2005/2006 season. Supporters had had enough of Kassam.

Don't rewrite history Mally.

Enough of the past. I am deeply disenchanted with the lack of leadership being shown by the current crew.

As to the next step that needs to be taken by well meaning , intelligent OUFC supporters, well either you give up on the club - easy to do - or take stock and think hard - not so easy. One thing for sure, that Gooner supporting hotelier is pretty key.

(How do you know that the chance of owning the current stadium has all but gone incidentally?

The storming of the boardroom had a direct cause and effect impact on Kassam deciding to sell the club to somebody who clouldn't afford the stadium - I believe it was the last straw that made him go against what he had previously promised - in his mind the contract with the fans had been broken. If you remember on that very day he had appointed a new manager and two general managers to run the club full time - why do you think he then sold up after doing that?

I don't know that the chance of owning the stadium has all but gone but I certainly believe it to be the case. WPL's plan was along shot 2 years ago. Now the club has a worse balance sheet, it's owners are poorer, our league position is lower our future prospects are bleaker but the stadium rent and the the price to buy it remains the same. We are heading headlong into a crisis situation.

[Mally]

Surely there is a huge amount of blame for OCC to shoulder here. They should have made sure that the club and the stadium are under common ownership, as part of the deal for the stadium to be built. A massive oversight, considering the deal they did for the land for Kassam.

OCC basically bent over, lubed themselves up and waited for it.

OCC don't have any remit over commercial aspects of any land deal. The planners did what they could in imposing covenants, but they are meaningless if there is no one willing or able to pay the rent.

All fair points. I guess, if OUFC ever did decide that they couldn't afford to play at the Kasstad any longer, and Kassam wanted to re-develop it into housing, it would still require planning permission from OCC to do this. To this end, they could effectivly force Kassam into selling it cut price to OUFC by refusing that it be developed. Who else is going to take a white elephant of an empty stadium off him if planning permission is consistently turned down.

I may be totally wrong about all this as I know nothing about planning etc, i am just thinking out loud!

OCC couldn't refuse planning on the grounds you imply they would lose at appeal or be taken to a judicial review. The only safe guard they have is a covenant that says that football should be played there for 25 years. If Kassam can prove that no football club in Oxford can afford a reasonable rent then he can have the covenant removed.

Morrells lie at the heart of the current situation. Without their enforcement of a 1965 covenant on the Blackbird pub (or a demand for £1million to remove it) the City Council would own 20% of the stadium company and have a seat on it's board.