I keep thinking it can't get any worse...

[Mally]

Arriving at a fair figure using normal valuation techniques is irrelevant to our situation.

We are not in an open market, as far as I know there is only one Football League standard stadium available in the locality and likelihood of getting planning for another one is zilch.

We also have the scenario where FK will have in his head what the land/stadium is worth to him without a tenant and without a planning restriction, probably more than thirteen mill, certainly more than nine mill.

We are now paying the price for playing into his hands and pushing him to do a quick deal with the ECLS.

Can't really disagree with any of that. One big mistake Merry &amp Co made was in failing to negotiate a discount for relegation when there was an uplift for promotion built into the contract. If the stadium was to disappear overnight then the club would have to pay about £300,000 in financing to build a non-league ground (5000 capacity) and another £100,000 to maintain and service it so you could argue we are getting the current one at a bargain price.

But just focusing on the stadium is only part of the problem. The real problem is that we have a League 1 cost base of which the stadium is just one part. The club has expenses of well over £2 million. Once the stadium rent and the players have been paid the club still burns another £1 million a year!

[GodalmingYellow]

Arriving at a fair figure using normal valuation techniques is irrelevant to our situation.

We are not in an open market, as far as I know there is only one Football League standard stadium available in the locality and likelihood of getting planning for another one is zilch.

We also have the scenario where FK will have in his head what the land/stadium is worth to him without a tenant and without a planning restriction, probably more than thirteen mill, certainly more than nine mill.

We are now paying the price for playing into his hands and pushing him to do a quick deal with the ECLS.

An interesting point was made in the other place by an OxVox committee member that Merry told them we don't have a lease, we have a licence apparently.

I'm not well enough up on commercial tenancies to understand any implications of that.

This is an interesting link http://www.turnerbutler.co.uk/memo.asp? ... QgodXBfZwg

This is very true, but not really what Ty was asking for.

Kassam holds pretty near all the cards on the stadium and is in a no lose positon. If the ground and land were redeveloped, I bet he would make the costs back and losses on StadCo and much more besides. WPL made a mess of the buy out, no question of that.

Boogie may be best able to answer the lease v license question. The link below gives some guidance:

http&#58//www&#46stoneking&#46co&#46uk/ ... nce&#46pdf

[recordmeister]

As I've mentioned before I've got the suspicion that he's filled the side with mediocre conference players and the results back that up. We can beat the weak sides but struggle against anyone in the top 10.

I'm not convinced by that argument for two main reasons:

1. Smith had the birght idea of filling the side full of &quotleague&quot players who, as league players, must be better than the other players in the Conf and therefore win the title for us. That didn't work. You need Conf level players to work as a unit if you want to win this league.

2. Cambridge, who are doing very well at the moment, are just one example of a team that is full of very average Conf players. Courtney Pitt and Hatswell being just two examples of them. I'm sure as guilty as everyone else on this forum for thinking those two players were not good enough for us, as a club. But they seem to be doing a pretty damn good job at CUFC.

[DLT]

I would expect that Kassam is in no hurry to do much about the stadium until the issue of housing expansion in Oxfordshire is sorted by GOSE.

If a decision comes to ignore green belt rules and develop east of Grenoble Road then he will be rather excited by the prospect of flattening an empty stadium and replacing it with housing.

If the club were regularly late paying their rent he could terminate the lease easily I would have thought.

[ty cobb]

My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess. He said very publicly he didn't want to sell the football club without the stadium. He has a number of local interests not least the lesuire complex overlooking us everytime we play.

If we can establish what a reasonable price is taking all that he has gained out of the deal into account, and what it has cost him we can start applying some pressure so the ground is sold to us at a fair price. If WPL buy it for above this price OUFC will suffer.

HE doesn't like getting a bad press and he doesn't like protests against him. It may make him dig his heels in but at least we can gets things in motion - at the moment we are stuck drifting, to move forward as a club we need to buy the stadium.

If people boycott the leisure complex, club together against Ally Pally I'd have thought he would want shot of the stadium pretty quickly. I may be wrong but without a stadium to make the most of (and not one to bury us financially) we're going to be stuck down here for sometime yet.

I'm not asking for anything more then he has publicly stated previously. If WPL have got cold feet about buying the stadium we should not know - this is dragging on far too long and for me calls into question their ambition and long term goals for Oxford United.

[Isaac]

I'm not convinced by that argument for two main reasons:

1. Smith had the birght idea of filling the side full of &quotleague&quot players who, as league players, must be better than the other players in the Conf and therefore win the title for us. That didn't work. You need Conf level players to work as a unit if you want to win this league.

2. Cambridge, who are doing very well at the moment, are just one example of a team that is full of very average Conf players. Courtney Pitt and Hatswell being just two examples of them. I'm sure as guilty as everyone else on this forum for thinking those two players were not good enough for us, as a club. But they seem to be doing a pretty damn good job at CUFC.

1. Unfortunately I think Patterson has attempted the same quick fix, only with less money so he's been forced/has decided to get in older (relatively, most of the new ones are late 20's) conference players instead. I think it's very difficult to build a team in one season to win any league, although saying that Aldershot appear to be managing it (with a young side though for the most part). D&ampR were a young side last year too albeit apparently built over a number of years, I don't think it's a coincidence. Young, fit, energetic players playing direct, attacking football is the best bet, I reckon.

In an ideal world the club would announce that it's a definite 3 year plan to get promoted rather than the miserably short term &quotnext season or bust&quot, give the manager 2 of those 3 years at least and see if that works any better. Of course, announcing that will be seen as terminal for our attendances as the fanbase is unlikely to react well, it's a massive problem. And announcing a 3 year plan doesn't make it happen either, but it might mean we start thinking slightly more long term rather than 3 managers a season again.

2: To be fair we got rid of Hatswell and Pitt in League 2. I think Hatswell was good enough for that league, Pitt, at that time probably wasn't. Keeping solid conference players while we were in the league wouldn't have been the greatest plan ever.

[DLT]

My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess. He said very publicly he didn't want to sell the football club without the stadium. He has a number of local interests not least the lesuire complex overlooking us everytime we play.

If we can establish what a reasonable price is taking all that he has gained out of the deal into account, and what it has cost him we can start applying some pressure so the ground is sold to us at a fair price. If WPL buy it for above this price OUFC will suffer.

HE doesn't like getting a bad press and he doesn't like protests against him. It may make him dig his heels in but at least we can gets things in motion - at the moment we are stuck drifting, to move forward as a club we need to buy the stadium.

If people boycott the leisure complex, club together against Ally Pally I'd have thought he would want shot of the stadium pretty quickly. I may be wrong but without a stadium to make the most of (and not one to bury us financially) we're going to be stuck down here for sometime yet.

I'm not asking for anything more then he has publicly stated previously. If WPL have got cold feet about buying the stadium we should not know - this is dragging on far too long and for me calls into question their ambition and long term goals for Oxford United.

Sorry Ty, I know I am regarded as a Kassam apologist, but surely the facts are this (as confirmed by IL at a fans forum).

WPL agreed a deal for both the club and the stadco initially. It was WPL who asked to proceed without the Stadco.

IL has stated he has agreed a fair price for the stadco but he hasn't come forward with the money.

From where I see it, IL came into this deal and got cold feet about matching his intended investment. If we had stayed up or gone straight back up he might have come forward with the money, but he hasn't.

He now owns three sports clubs and not one of them owns the ground it plays in.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. IL has agreed what price the stadco is worth, but hasn't decided to release the funds to buy it.

[Snake]

GOSE got mentioned earlier, which pricked up my ears. Anyway, here is how things pan out at the moment. No point in going into the details of it all as the OM did a half decent job of summarising where we are in terms of housing pressure around Grenoble Road.

[Snake]

My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess. He said very publicly he didn't want to sell the football club without the stadium. He has a number of local interests not least the lesuire complex overlooking us everytime we play.

If we can establish what a reasonable price is taking all that he has gained out of the deal into account, and what it has cost him we can start applying some pressure so the ground is sold to us at a fair price. If WPL buy it for above this price OUFC will suffer.

HE doesn't like getting a bad press and he doesn't like protests against him. It may make him dig his heels in but at least we can gets things in motion - at the moment we are stuck drifting, to move forward as a club we need to buy the stadium.

If people boycott the leisure complex, club together against Ally Pally I'd have thought he would want shot of the stadium pretty quickly. I may be wrong but without a stadium to make the most of (and not one to bury us financially) we're going to be stuck down here for sometime yet.

I'm not asking for anything more then he has publicly stated previously. If WPL have got cold feet about buying the stadium we should not know - this is dragging on far too long and for me calls into question their ambition and long term goals for Oxford United.

“My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess.

[Mally]

My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess. He said very publicly he didn't want to sell the football club without the stadium. He has a number of local interests not least the lesuire complex overlooking us everytime we play.

If we can establish what a reasonable price is taking all that he has gained out of the deal into account, and what it has cost him we can start applying some pressure so the ground is sold to us at a fair price. If WPL buy it for above this price OUFC will suffer.

HE doesn't like getting a bad press and he doesn't like protests against him. It may make him dig his heels in but at least we can gets things in motion - at the moment we are stuck drifting, to move forward as a club we need to buy the stadium.

If people boycott the leisure complex, club together against Ally Pally I'd have thought he would want shot of the stadium pretty quickly. I may be wrong but without a stadium to make the most of (and not one to bury us financially) we're going to be stuck down here for sometime yet.

I'm not asking for anything more then he has publicly stated previously. If WPL have got cold feet about buying the stadium we should not know - this is dragging on far too long and for me calls into question their ambition and long term goals for Oxford United.

Sorry Ty, I know I am regarded as a Kassam apologist, but surely the facts are this (as confirmed by IL at a fans forum).

WPL agreed a deal for both the club and the stadco initially. It was WPL who asked to proceed without the Stadco.

IL has stated he has agreed a fair price for the stadco but he hasn't come forward with the money.

From where I see it, IL came into this deal and got cold feet about matching his intended investment. If we had stayed up or gone straight back up he might have come forward with the money, but he hasn't.

He now owns three sports clubs and not one of them owns the ground it plays in.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. IL has agreed what price the stadco is worth, but hasn't decided to release the funds to buy it.

Lenagan's plan to buy the stadium was to find a partner who could co-fund the purchase in return for use of a development in a 4th stand and/or a development in the East stand. 2 years down the line and no partner has come forward. The stadium is on the wrong place for almost all potential partners. Assuming for a minute that such a partner could ever be found I have no faith in Merry's ability to do a workable deal with one and get around the planning minefield. My guess is that Lenagan has got bored with the whole thing now that he's got his hands on his first love - Wigan Warriers and the chance for owning the stadium is now all but gone. The half wits who stormed into the boardroom while Kassam was there with his daughters got exactly what they wanted and could well have screwed the club in the process. Strange that you don't see any of the ring leaders around these days isn't it?

[scooter]

My point is that it's getting to the stage where the fans should start putting some pressure on Firoz over this whole mess. He said very publicly he didn't want to sell the football club without the stadium. He has a number of local interests not least the lesuire complex overlooking us everytime we play.

If we can establish what a reasonable price is taking all that he has gained out of the deal into account, and what it has cost him we can start applying some pressure so the ground is sold to us at a fair price. If WPL buy it for above this price OUFC will suffer.

HE doesn't like getting a bad press and he doesn't like protests against him. It may make him dig his heels in but at least we can gets things in motion - at the moment we are stuck drifting, to move forward as a club we need to buy the stadium.

If people boycott the leisure complex, club together against Ally Pally I'd have thought he would want shot of the stadium pretty quickly. I may be wrong but without a stadium to make the most of (and not one to bury us financially) we're going to be stuck down here for sometime yet.

I'm not asking for anything more then he has publicly stated previously. If WPL have got cold feet about buying the stadium we should not know - this is dragging on far too long and for me calls into question their ambition and long term goals for Oxford United.

Sorry Ty, I know I am regarded as a Kassam apologist, but surely the facts are this (as confirmed by IL at a fans forum).

WPL agreed a deal for both the club and the stadco initially. It was WPL who asked to proceed without the Stadco.

IL has stated he has agreed a fair price for the stadco but he hasn't come forward with the money.

From where I see it, IL came into this deal and got cold feet about matching his intended investment. If we had stayed up or gone straight back up he might have come forward with the money, but he hasn't.

He now owns three sports clubs and not one of them owns the ground it plays in.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. IL has agreed what price the stadco is worth, but hasn't decided to release the funds to buy it.

Lenagan's plan to buy the stadium was to find a partner who could co-fund the purchase in return for use of a development in a 4th stand and/or a development in the East stand. 2 years down the line and no partner has come forward. The stadium is on the wrong place for almost all potential partners. Assuming for a minute that such a partner could ever be found I have no faith in Merry's ability to do a workable deal with one and get around the planning minefield. My guess is that Lenagan has got bored with the whole thing now that he's got his hands on his first love - Wigan Warriers and the chance for owning the stadium is now all but gone. The half wits who stormed into the boardroom while Kassam was there with his daughters got exactly what they wanted and could well have screwed the club in the process. Strange that you don't see any of the ring leaders around these days isn't it?

Agree with all of that.

The trustafarian is noticeably silent nowadays.

[OUFC4eva]

Does the G.O.S.E still exist?

I thought it had been replaced by another acronym S.E.E.D.A

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

Have you noticed how some people are only in favour of fans' movements of which they are in charge themselves? And how they are not responsible for the problems brought about by the people that they backed?

[Ascension Ox]

Lenagan's plan to buy the stadium was to find a partner who could co-fund the purchase in return for use of a development in a 4th stand and/or a development in the East stand. 2 years down the line and no partner has come forward. The stadium is on the wrong place for almost all potential partners. Assuming for a minute that such a partner could ever be found I have no faith in Merry's ability to do a workable deal with one and get around the planning minefield. My guess is that Lenagan has got bored with the whole thing now that he's got his hands on his first love - Wigan Warriers and the chance for owning the stadium is now all but gone. The half wits who stormed into the boardroom while Kassam was there with his daughters got exactly what they wanted and could well have screwed the club in the process. Strange that you don't see any of the ring leaders around these days isn't it?


Equally, you would have been half witted not to have been extremely angry at how the club was being run in the 2005/2006 season. Supporters had had enough of Kassam.

Don't rewrite history Mally.

Enough of the past. I am deeply disenchanted with the lack of leadership being shown by the current crew.

As to the next step that needs to be taken by well meaning , intelligent OUFC supporters, well either you give up on the club - easy to do - or take stock and think hard - not so easy. One thing for sure, that Gooner supporting hotelier is pretty key.

(How do you know that the chance of owning the current stadium has all but gone incidentally?

[GodalmingYellow]

Does the G.O.S.E still exist?

I thought it had been replaced by another acronym S.E.E.D.A

No they both exist. My missus does work for both of them.