Kenilworthless

[Kernow Yellow]

As to yesterday's game, why are we not capable of starting a football match like we mean it? Luton came quickly out of the blocks and battered us. Were we not expecting this? Do we not prepare for it? We've played catch-up far too much this season.

Non-existent marking for their first goal and I thought Long looked a bit flat-footed going for it but that might be harsh - he had a decent game otherwise.

Ruffels looked good, especially in Collins' absence and we did have the best of the midfield possession. O'Dowda posed a threat first half too but faded badly after the break. That was my first look at Howard and he's classy but seemed to play on his own quite a lot - no-one really linked up with him and his through balls often ran harmlessly away.

Hylton didn't get a sniff and Barnett's starting to annoy me. He's constantly whinging and throwing his arms up when he isn't given the ball exactly when or how he wants it, which might be tolerable if he was clinical with his finishing but he spurned the one glorious opportunity that came his way which would have completely changed the game at 1-1. If he's as good as he thinks he needs to start showing it and do less stropping in the meantime.

Their penalty looked blatant - very reminiscent of Kitson's aberration against Plymouth last year - no danger turns into game over. If hylton was pushed then maybe we were harshly done by, and we didn't get much out of the ref all game, but you expect that in atmospheric cauldrons like Kenilworth Road.

Speaking of which I enjoyed the away end, although it is EXACTLY the same as on my first visit in 1987. They could improve it ripping the seats out though (never going to happen I know). Imagine how bouncing that stand would have been had we scored that early goal? But once again our vocal support was not rewarded on the pitch.

And although I enjoy the old school atmosphere you get at places like Luton, the police were well over the top with their horses and kettling after the final whistle. Back to the days of being treated like a criminal however you're behaving.

[GodalmingYellow]

You might think the police were over the top, but there is a video of our fans on Fleecebook, being marched either to or from the ground singing a very racist chant "You're just a town full of Pakis" .

Intolerable behaviour like that is not only disgusting, but it gets us a bad name and inevitably leads to large police presence at such games.

[Snake]

You might think the police were over the top, but there is a video of our fans on Fleecebook, being marched either to or from the ground singing a very racist chant You're just a town full of Pakis" .
Intolerable behaviour like that is not only disgusting, but it gets us a bad name and inevitably leads to large police presence at such games.

That can be expensive when money is tight. I've only asked twice, but for the two games I selected the total cost of the Babylon bill was £39,641.20.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-234995 and https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ing-123957

[Kernow Yellow]

You might think the police were over the top, but there is a video of our fans on Fleecebook, being marched either to or from the ground singing a very racist chant "You're just a town full of Pakis" .

Intolerable behaviour like that is not only disgusting, but it gets us a bad name and inevitably leads to large police presence at such games.

If anyone was shouting racist chants or inciting racial hatred then they should be arrested. There were scores of police in the escort - if they want to stop behaviour like that (and that is exactly what they should be doing) then they should be concentrating on that and not treating all football fans with contempt. One of my mates was separated from us in the kettling outside the away end (we were allowed out after a while but he was kept in - apparently he was deemed 'a risk') and parents were separated from their sons for the same reason. A copper on a horse waded in to the crowd for no reason other than it seemed he wanted to stir things up - he was certainly getting himself wound up for no reason. When I was waiting further up the street for my mate (as requested) another policeman took exception to this and told me to move further on as I was 'in the way'. When I queried this and asked how I could possibly be in anyone's way I was told "You're stood behind me and I don't like it". So that's alright then! There were enough police around (including quite a few TVP) that they could have easily kept their eye on any group they thought was likely to be problematic without inconveniencing the rest of us.

Eventually my group all managed to get away from the escort and therefore didn't see any of the kind of behaviour you're describing, and there was certainly none in the ground. I did overhear some Oxford fans on the train make perjorative (though not offensive) remarks about Luton's racial profile and express political views that I strongly disagree with but sadly you only need to look at UKIP's rise to see that these views are becoming increasingly mainstream. Anyway, that's a different debate...

[GodalmingYellow]

You might think the police were over the top, but there is a video of our fans on Fleecebook, being marched either to or from the ground singing a very racist chant "You're just a town full of Pakis" .

Intolerable behaviour like that is not only disgusting, but it gets us a bad name and inevitably leads to large police presence at such games.

If anyone was shouting racist chants or inciting racial hatred then they should be arrested. There were scores of police in the escort - if they want to stop behaviour like that (and that is exactly what they should be doing) then they should be concentrating on that and not treating all football fans with contempt. One of my mates was separated from us in the kettling outside the away end (we were allowed out after a while but he was kept in - apparently he was deemed 'a risk') and parents were separated from their sons for the same reason. A copper on a horse waded in to the crowd for no reason other than it seemed he wanted to stir things up - he was certainly getting himself wound up for no reason. When I was waiting further up the street for my mate (as requested) another policeman took exception to this and told me to move further on as I was 'in the way'. When I queried this and asked how I could possibly be in anyone's way I was told "You're stood behind me and I don't like it". So that's alright then! There were enough police around (including quite a few TVP) that they could have easily kept their eye on any group they thought was likely to be problematic without inconveniencing the rest of us.

Eventually my group all managed to get away from the escort and therefore didn't see any of the kind of behaviour you're describing, and there was certainly none in the ground. I did overhear some Oxford fans on the train make perjorative (though not offensive) remarks about Luton's racial profile and express political views that I strongly disagree with but sadly you only need to look at UKIP's rise to see that these views are becoming increasingly mainstream. Anyway, that's a different debate...

I don't doubt what you say. I wasn't there so can't comment.

My point was not about the police dealing with the nasty elements, but making the point that the very existence and attendance of nasty elements is the cause of heavy handed policing.

Get rid of the nasty elements, then there is no need for the police, then you don't have your day out ruined. We can't expect police to have a gently gently approach when such nasty elements clearly exist in our fan base (and no doubt in Luton's fan base too). So your ire might be better directed at the root cause of the problems you experienced, rather than the police who are in essence an intermediary.

All this is the main reason I don't like going to Luton. The fixture brings out the worst in both sets of fans and its generally a horrible experience.

[Eric Pollard]

Umpteen police at the game on Saturday. God knows how much it cost. OUFC fans behaved pretty well I thought. Decent atmosphere - result excepted I'm glad I made the effort.

Loved the ground, thoroughly disliked he environs. No new building or renovation taking place at all. I feel sorry for the people who live there.

[Kernow Yellow]

My point was not about the police dealing with the nasty elements, but making the point that the very existence and attendance of nasty elements is the cause of heavy handed policing.

Get rid of the nasty elements, then there is no need for the police, then you don't have your day out ruined. We can't expect police to have a gently gently approach when such nasty elements clearly exist in our fan base (and no doubt in Luton's fan base too). So your ire might be better directed at the root cause of the problems you experienced, rather than the police who are in essence an intermediary.

All this is the main reason I don't like going to Luton. The fixture brings out the worst in both sets of fans and its generally a horrible experience.

Without wishing to prolong the debate much longer, there are less-than-pleasant elements in many parts of society, but it is only at football where it seems acceptable for the police to tar everyone with the same brush and treat them all as scum. Many of the police on duty were just doing a professional job, but some were going out of their way to be difficult and wind people up. And I would argue that the general herding of people around is probably more likely to make them behave badly. Or, as I, Ludicrous might put it, 'Moynihan brings out the hooligan in me'. (And 'We Stand Around' is pretty evocative of the era of football that a visit to Luton reminds me of too.

[GodalmingYellow]

My point was not about the police dealing with the nasty elements, but making the point that the very existence and attendance of nasty elements is the cause of heavy handed policing.

Get rid of the nasty elements, then there is no need for the police, then you don't have your day out ruined. We can't expect police to have a gently gently approach when such nasty elements clearly exist in our fan base (and no doubt in Luton's fan base too). So your ire might be better directed at the root cause of the problems you experienced, rather than the police who are in essence an intermediary.

All this is the main reason I don't like going to Luton. The fixture brings out the worst in both sets of fans and its generally a horrible experience.

Without wishing to prolong the debate much longer, there are less-than-pleasant elements in many parts of society, but it is only at football where it seems acceptable for the police to tar everyone with the same brush and treat them all as scum. Many of the police on duty were just doing a professional job, but some were going out of their way to be difficult and wind people up. And I would argue that the general herding of people around is probably more likely to make them behave badly. Or, as I, Ludicrous might put it, 'Moynihan brings out the hooligan in me'. (And 'We Stand Around' is pretty evocative of the era of football that a visit to Luton reminds me of too.

I would never be able to agree that the behaviour of the police (and I agree they are sometimes their own worst enemies), no matter how unfair, could ever justify bad behaviour by fans, and certainly not racism. There is NO excuse for racism, whatever the provocation.

[YellowHoods]

I heard similar racism by a very small number of our fans at Bradford a few seasons ago. A handful behind me were chanting "town full of Pakis", then justifying it by saying "it ain't racist cos it's true". They were thuggish-looking and it was no surprise that no-one confronted them, but the stewards should have acted.

As for the police, it's poor form to generalise, but here goes. A lot of them certainly do consider football fans as a tribe to be potential trouble, and a lot of them are little better than thugs in uniform themselves. My ex-neighbour was a very mild mannered TVP copper. I watched an England game with him in the social club at Milton Keynes police station, I was genuinely shocked at some of the racist comments being made, and the general drunken yobbishness that I'm sure they would crack down on if perpetrated on a Friday night in their town centre.

[Kernow Yellow]

I would never be able to agree that the behaviour of the police (and I agree they are sometimes their own worst enemies), no matter how unfair, could ever justify bad behaviour by fans, and certainly not racism. There is NO excuse for racism, whatever the provocation.

Absolutely. And just to be clear I was saying nothing of the sort. If there was racist chanting going on (which I didn't hear - there was certainly none at the match within my earshot) then the police should have taken strong action against it. Although, as YH illutrates, I'm not convinced that the police are necessarily always in the best position to clamp down on racism...

[tomoufc]

I'm really angry to hear this, even though I wasn't there.

To be clear - a crime has been committed here (or it sounds like it has from the reports). The crime is a serious one and those fans committed of one of the offenses should be banned from all football matches, at least for a period of time.

But should the club and the supporters association not make a stand, and attempt to collect evidence when such things occur and report it to the police then we're on a slippery slope. I'm not saying that they won't, but I'm just making the point that turning a blind eye is as good as condoning it. (And it doesn't surprise me in the least that the cops didn't do anything.

My inspiration is when the crowd ejected a racist a few years ago. I was well proud to be an Oxford fan that day.

[tomoufc]

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[Kernow Yellow]

I'm really angry to hear this, even though I wasn't there.

To be clear - a crime has been committed here

Just to be clear - what crime has been committed where? I saw nothing at or around the game, there's nothing on Yellows Forum, I've tried googling to find something but to no avail. GY wasn't there but saw something on facebook. What did you see or hear?

[GodalmingYellow]

I'm really angry to hear this, even though I wasn't there.

To be clear - a crime has been committed here

Just to be clear - what crime has been committed where? I saw nothing at or around the game, there's nothing on Yellows Forum, I've tried googling to find something but to no avail. GY wasn't there but saw something on facebook. What did you see or hear?

I've seen a video on Fleecebook, taken by an Oxford fan, who was part of a column of Oxford fans being escorted by the police. He has confirmed that it was Oxford fans doing the chanting. What they are chanting is very clear in the video. Their faces do not appear in the video. I have advised the Oxford fan who recorded the video to send it to the football club to deal with. It is difficult to tell how many are involved in the chanting. I would guess no more than half a dozen.