Rage Online

Just watching the bbc programme and they rolled out the fact that, in one week so far this season, the prem had 33% of players eligible to play for england where as la liga had 71%.

I feel that this fact makes the lower leagues stronger and personally I'd rather watch a match like we saw yesterday, then ever see England win the world cup.

5 levels of professional soccer in this country is worth far more to the nation than england winning the world cup.

The England World Cup bidding team used our home game against Luton last season as an example of why England should get the WC. There were over 10,000 supporters there for a game in level 5 of English football while the same night there were several World Cup qualifying games that attracted less supporters.

&quotrecordmeister&quot wrote:Just watching the bbc programme and they rolled out the fact that, in one week so far this season, the prem had 33% of players eligible to play for england where as la liga had 71%.

I feel that this fact makes the lower leagues stronger and personally I'd rather watch a match like we saw yesterday, then ever see England win the world cup.

5 levels of professional soccer in this country is worth far more to the nation than england winning the world cup.

Well I'd like both. Like we had in the 60s. Also, bring back the Beatles and The Kinks.

&quotrecordmeister&quot wrote:Just watching the bbc programme and they rolled out the fact that, in one week so far this season, the prem had 33% of players eligible to play for england where as la liga had 71%.

I feel that this fact makes the lower leagues stronger and personally I'd rather watch a match like we saw yesterday, then ever see England win the world cup.

5 levels of professional soccer in this country is worth far more to the nation than england winning the world cup.

I think this is a very dangerous argument, because it could be taken to imply a trade-off (I am not suggesting this is how you meant it) between the very existence of divisions where we play and the success and failure of the national team. Not only can lower league teams be a source of players who go on to have major international careers, but it overlooks the source of the problem for the England team: the Premier League. Some of the main examples of success quoted in the programme (Spain and Germany in particular) involved the top clubs and the national set-ups working together for the common cause, through academies, etc. Richard Scudamore's platitudes made my skin crawl - and Lineker's failure to pin him down on the fundamental issue of the disjoint between the economic interests of the Premier League and the failure of the national side was disgraceful. Grrrrr.

England have been crap since 1997 because we've had a Labour government

I wouldn't be surprised if we won the European Cup in a couple of years' time. World Cup's a different matter though, because quite often we get done over by the climate. Brazil will be tough after a long season.

The problem hasn't been the players though, it's been the team selection. Unfortunately our &quotbest&quot players haven't been the right players to make an effective team formation. There's no point in putting Gerrard and Lampard on the pitch together - they're effectively a really good attacking midfielder and a not-quite-as-good attacking midfielder. Play Gerrard, and have Lampard on the bench ready for a fresh last 20-30 minutes.

My plan for success would be:

a) Decide on a formation/tactic that as many as possible of our best players are familiar with, and that the manager understands how to use. Do the same with a fallback formation.
b) Pick the best, in-form players for each position in that formation. Then pick the second-best, in-form player for each position in the fallback formation, and a spare goalie to make the 23. Absolutely under no circumstances EVER pick a player who is injured, or has only just come back from injury.
c) Ignore the press. They know nothing.

England have been crap recently because like most other teams who are crap we’ve/you’ve had crap managers and paid them a small fortune for the privilege.

To be perfectly honest most of the people who contribute to this board could manage England and get them through the current European Qualifying Group, let alone some sad out of work former Premiership manager who would do it for peanuts (Roy Hodgson will be available soon, for example).

THEN, when we have qualified get rid of Mr Average and throw a million quid in the direction of a proper manager to finish the job. Someone like Jose, Arsene or Sir Alex who would work for just a month or so during the actual tournament.

We won the World Cup once, nearly half a century ago, when hosting it. We once made the semi-final of that tournament and once the semi-final of the European Championships (again, when hosting it). The rest of the time getting out of the group stages represented success - especially considering the several tournaments (European and World) we failed even to qualify for. Our poor performances have come in countries close as well as distant, in climates hot and cold (including England itself, given the number of non-qualifications).

In short, England's record over decades is rubbish - a fact overlooked by so many simply because we had that one success, so long ago. To talk of formations, Gerrard-Lampard, managers, managers' salaries, climate, misses the one basic point that our record demonstrates above all else - our problems are structural, deep-seated and long-lasting. I do not think 'rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic' is the right analogy rather, talking of managers, formations, etc is like putting go-faster stripes on a slow car in the hope it will go faster. For the car to go faster it needs a different engine. For England to perform better the football clubs of England needs to produce more players of better quality. THAT is what the likes of Germany and Spain have done - it works.

&quotDr Bob&quot wrote:We won the World Cup once, nearly half a century ago, when hosting it. We once made the semi-final of that tournament and once the semi-final of the European Championships (again, when hosting it). The rest of the time getting out of the group stages represented success - especially considering the several tournaments (European and World) we failed even to qualify for. Our poor performances have come in countries close as well as distant, in climates hot and cold (including England itself, given the number of non-qualifications).

In short, England's record over decades is rubbish - a fact overlooked by so many simply because we had that one success, so long ago. To talk of formations, Gerrard-Lampard, managers, managers' salaries, climate, misses the one basic point that our record demonstrates above all else - our problems are structural, deep-seated and long-lasting. I do not think 'rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic' is the right analogy rather, talking of managers, formations, etc is like putting go-faster stripes on a slow car in the hope it will go faster. For the car to go faster it needs a different engine. For England to perform better the football clubs of England needs to produce more players of better quality. THAT is what the likes of Germany and Spain have done - it works.

It's not just about developing more quality players though. We actually have a lot of quality players. You also have to have quality players who care enough to play as well for their country as they do for their clubs. It's quite clear that for a lot of the players this just isn't the case.

&quotrecordmeister&quot wrote:Just watching the bbc programme and they rolled out the fact that, in one week so far this season, the prem had 33% of players eligible to play for england where as la liga had 71%.

La Liga had 71% of their players eligible for England? Fabio should hot foot it over there rather than calling up Kevin Davies

&quotMally&quot wrote:It's not just about developing more quality players though. We actually have a lot of quality players. You also have to have quality players who care enough to play as well for their country as they do for their clubs. It's quite clear that for a lot of the players this just isn't the case.

This is absolutely correct. Might one way of helping bridge this divide precisely be through the greater engagement and cooperation of clubs and FA? Not only would this help development of more better players, but because the interests of clubs and country would be seen to be aligned, the psychological gap between playing for club and country might be less. And I still keep coming back to the fact that this is not a recent problem, but is very long-standing.

“can england win the world cup

&quotSnake&quot wrote:Wales are so non-league in terms of International Football.

On one of those interminable Top 100 Football Whatever programs, some Scots wag described his own team: &quotWe are the easy game at this level!&quot

I hope Wales win. The current England set-up is such a shower of shite, that anything that hastens its demise should be welcomed.

&quotMally&quot wrote:

&quotDr Bob&quot wrote:We won the World Cup once, nearly half a century ago, when hosting it. We once made the semi-final of that tournament and once the semi-final of the European Championships (again, when hosting it). The rest of the time getting out of the group stages represented success - especially considering the several tournaments (European and World) we failed even to qualify for. Our poor performances have come in countries close as well as distant, in climates hot and cold (including England itself, given the number of non-qualifications).

In short, England's record over decades is rubbish - a fact overlooked by so many simply because we had that one success, so long ago. To talk of formations, Gerrard-Lampard, managers, managers' salaries, climate, misses the one basic point that our record demonstrates above all else - our problems are structural, deep-seated and long-lasting. I do not think 'rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic' is the right analogy rather, talking of managers, formations, etc is like putting go-faster stripes on a slow car in the hope it will go faster. For the car to go faster it needs a different engine. For England to perform better the football clubs of England needs to produce more players of better quality. THAT is what the likes of Germany and Spain have done - it works.

It's not just about developing more quality players though. We actually have a lot of quality players. You also have to have quality players who care enough to play as well for their country as they do for their clubs. It's quite clear that for a lot of the players this just isn't the case.

Agree, and in the case of Wales it’s a whole lot worse. Giggs and Bellamy et al almost always seem to pick up a “knock

I find much of this thread baffling. Do a really significant proportion of you genuinely believe that England generates world class players and that the only thing wrong and preventing international success is the management structure of the national team and its principal coach?

&quotAncient Colin&quot wrote:I find much of this thread baffling. Do a really significant proportion of you genuinely believe that England generates world class players and that the only thing wrong and preventing international success is the management structure of the national team and its principal coach?

There's no such thing as a &quotworld class&quot player. There's just good players. We have had (especially in 2002) at least as &quotgood&quot a national team as anyone else in the world at several points over the last decade or so. Winning the World Cup needs good players, a lot of luck, and a decent manager with excellent tactics.