Stadium Rumour

[Paul Cooper]

As you say GY, the problem will be when the lease gets close to expiry as the club will have no negotiation power. Based on that I am sure that KT is doing everythig he is able to bring the Ground under the clubs ownership so that the club will at least be in charge of it's destiny long term.

Totally agree that the ground has to be commercially viable although I suspect that KT will be looking at potential increases in revenue if the club were to own the stadium so that funding the stadium need not necessarily be less than the cost of the rent

[slappy]

For those who don't look at Proboards, on the same topic there was a link to a story on Bournemouth wanting to buy their ground back.
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When asked if Structadene could confirm the second offer was £4.5m, the spokesperson declined to reveal the figures involved, but added: “Four-and-half million pounds might be fair in the club’s eyes, but if you walk into a shop and want to buy a suit that costs £100, £50 might seem fair. Unfortunately, the price is still £100.

“We don’t need to sell and there is no requirement for us to sell the property because we are very happy with the return we are getting on it.

[Kernow Yellow]

As you say GY, the problem will be when the lease gets close to expiry as the club will have no negotiation power. Based on that I am sure that KT is doing everythig he is able to bring the Ground under the clubs ownership so that the club will at least be in charge of it's destiny long term.

It would be nice to think that KT was planning that long-term. Given the lease still has 15 years or so to run, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the current owners were spending time worrying about what happens beyond then.

Regardless of the length of the lease, though, isn't there a covenant stipulating that the ground has to be used for professional football (or some similar wording)? So it's not as if Kassam could just kick us out and use the land for something more profitable. Could he?

[Radley Rambler]

As you say GY, the problem will be when the lease gets close to expiry as the club will have no negotiation power. Based on that I am sure that KT is doing everythig he is able to bring the Ground under the clubs ownership so that the club will at least be in charge of it's destiny long term.

It would be nice to think that KT was planning that long-term. Given the lease still has 15 years or so to run, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the current owners were spending time worrying about what happens beyond then.

Regardless of the length of the lease, though, isn't there a covenant stipulating that the ground has to be used for professional football (or some similar wording)? So it's not as if Kassam could just kick us out and use the land for something more profitable. Could he?

I believe the covenant is for the length of the lease and so for the next 15 years, then yes that is the case. After that time, we'll all be down Cuttleslowe Park watching the mighty yellows and there will be yet more housing on Grenoble Road

[recordmeister]

As you say GY, the problem will be when the lease gets close to expiry as the club will have no negotiation power. Based on that I am sure that KT is doing everythig he is able to bring the Ground under the clubs ownership so that the club will at least be in charge of it's destiny long term.

It would be nice to think that KT was planning that long-term. Given the lease still has 15 years or so to run, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the current owners were spending time worrying about what happens beyond then.

Regardless of the length of the lease, though, isn't there a covenant stipulating that the ground has to be used for professional football (or some similar wording)? So it's not as if Kassam could just kick us out and use the land for something more profitable. Could he?

I believe the covenant is for the length of the lease and so for the next 15 years, then yes that is the case. After that time, we'll all be down Cuttleslowe Park watching the mighty yellows and there will be yet more housing on Grenoble Road

Well, at least the cups of tea might be a bit cheaper...

[GodalmingYellow]

Covering a few points raised since my last post:

Any increases in revenues that might be generated by goodwill following acquisition of the stadium, would be tiny compared to the costs involved. Even improving the StadCo trading wouldn't be near enough. The club would need to be filling the ground every week to even get near to covering the costs, and even that assumes massive external investment and continuing low interest rates, and not being in a division that might attract crowds of that size and the accompanying additional costs of players. The gap is simply much too big, and it would take an almost miraculous change of circumstances to enable the purchase of the ground by the club.

Covenants are part of the title deeds to the land, and completely irrelevant to any third party lease agreements. So the covenants would remain even when the lease expires. However, removing covenants from title deeds is a fairly easy process. I've just been through a contract and organised the removal of covenants on 28 properties. It was very very easy to do, and Kassam's lawyers would have no difficulty in removing the covenant demanding professional sport, if Kassam could show that there was no prospect of a suitable tenant prepared to pay market rent.

[slappy]

I wonder if Lenagan selling his stake in his company for £19MM might affect things?

[GodalmingYellow]

I wonder if Lenagan selling his stake in his company for £19MM might affect things?

Well yes, WW might get a some new facilities...

[slappy]

Story here. Wishful thinking says he could put for instance £5MM into the club, and the rest of the stadium purchase is by mortgage equivalent to the current rent. Quite what that would achieve though, unless the club can then vastly improve the non-football income, is another matter. The club would own the ground and could do what it likes, but at a high cost.

Anyway, it's fun to speculate spending someone else's money. Perhaps he could buy a proper training ground and facilities as well.

[GodalmingYellow]

Story here. Wishful thinking says he could put for instance £5MM into the club, and the rest of the stadium purchase is by mortgage equivalent to the current rent. Quite what that would achieve though, unless the club can then vastly improve the non-football income, is another matter. The club would own the ground and could do what it likes, but at a high cost.

Anyway, it's fun to speculate spending someone else's money. Perhaps he could buy a proper training ground and facilities as well.

There'll be a big CGT bill on that lot, so he won't get the £19m suggested.

[Snake]

Story here. Wishful thinking says he could put for instance £5MM into the club, and the rest of the stadium purchase is by mortgage equivalent to the current rent. Quite what that would achieve though, unless the club can then vastly improve the non-football income, is another matter. The club would own the ground and could do what it likes, but at a high cost.

Anyway, it's fun to speculate spending someone else's money. Perhaps he could buy a proper training ground and facilities as well.

There'll be a big CGT bill on that lot, so he won't get the £19m suggested.

GY, it’s really out of order to post something as cruel and factual as that on this board. There could be long standing fans of Wigan Warriors would be gutted if that kind of bad news got out.

[pottersrightboot]

Story here. Wishful thinking says he could put for instance £5MM into the club, and the rest of the stadium purchase is by mortgage equivalent to the current rent. Quite what that would achieve though, unless the club can then vastly improve the non-football income, is another matter. The club would own the ground and could do what it likes, but at a high cost.

Anyway, it's fun to speculate spending someone else's money. Perhaps he could buy a proper training ground and facilities as well.

There'll be a big CGT bill on that lot, so he won't get the £19m suggested.

Not looked at this in detail but are you sure? What about entrepreneur's relief/rollover relief? I'm sure our owner will have some reasonable professional advisers.

I can't see IL being massively keen on putting more mills into the club - or stadium project in any event - after being so spectacularly legged over by his ex Woodstock Partner.

Do you?

[slappy]

I'm not sure what Wigan RL fans want or need more money for. The club made a profit last year after years of losses. I suppose they could want to buy the stadium from Dave Whelan. The club is though reliant on Sky for a large proportion of their income. Interesting to see that an old £2MM loan from Whelan was repaid in December 2010 - but I'm not sure how that was funded.

[GodalmingYellow]

Story here. Wishful thinking says he could put for instance £5MM into the club, and the rest of the stadium purchase is by mortgage equivalent to the current rent. Quite what that would achieve though, unless the club can then vastly improve the non-football income, is another matter. The club would own the ground and could do what it likes, but at a high cost.

Anyway, it's fun to speculate spending someone else's money. Perhaps he could buy a proper training ground and facilities as well.

There'll be a big CGT bill on that lot, so he won't get the £19m suggested.

Not looked at this in detail but are you sure? What about entrepreneur's relief/rollover relief? I'm sure our owner will have some reasonable professional advisers.

I can't see IL being massively keen on putting more mills into the club - or stadium project in any event - after being so spectacularly legged over by his ex Woodstock Partner.

Do you?

Neither of those reliefs will apply.

I'm sure he will have access to the best available advice, which may well limit the impact, but he will have a big CGT bill to pay.

Investment in the stadium is unlikely I think purely because Lenegan isn't particularly interested in OUFC. But if structured right, and he got the club and stadium company making money, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, the club have a lot of arrears of losses to make up before any CT bill might arise, so it could be a cash generator for a few years.

[Snake]

As you say GY, the problem will be when the lease gets close to expiry as the club will have no negotiation power. Based on that I am sure that KT is doing everythig he is able to bring the Ground under the clubs ownership so that the club will at least be in charge of it's destiny long term.

It would be nice to think that KT was planning that long-term. Given the lease still has 15 years or so to run, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the current owners were spending time worrying about what happens beyond then.

Regardless of the length of the lease, though, isn't there a covenant stipulating that the ground has to be used for professional football (or some similar wording)? So it's not as if Kassam could just kick us out and use the land for something more profitable. Could he?

Nice one. So there are two flimsy legal agreements we can call on in the next 15-20 years that will really show Kassam that we mean business. Nothing like thinking long term is there?