I keep thinking it can't get any worse...

[scooter]

God yes, we musn't have affordable housing, that's one thing the country's got far too much of.

Nothing wrong with affordable housing, its just that OCC policy is so punitive in terms of thresholds, percentages and more recently mix that they are now achieving a high percentage of nothing being built in the City.

It's easier to go and do business with SODC, Cherwell or WODC nowadays.

Which is why any development land in Oxford is again being snapped up by the colleges and Brookes as student accommodation generates a higher land value than residential.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

And tell me, are they building a lot of affordable housing in these places?

&quotPunitive&quot my arse.

[scooter]

And tell me, are they building a lot of affordable housing in these places?

&quotPunitive&quot my arse.

They seem to be getting their act together and delivering homes rather than just bandying &quotplanning consents granted&quot numbers around to meet some arbitrary targets.

The village I live in is in SODC and a scheme of 16 properties has just been completed which have all sold on shared equity terms, or been rented to local people most of whom are under 25 and will now stay in the village.

There have been and still are huge opportunities for the city council to get significant amounts of affordable housing built, but their sledgehammer approach doesn't allow for market forces and has made commercial property and student accommodation more viable.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

That's because &quotmarket forces&quot don't build much affordable housing, y'see. That's why housing became so unaffordable. That's why people like me ended up living in digs in our forties while watching expensive flats for young professionals go up all over the place while watching less rigorous targets for affordable housing being flouted or evaded.

Less rigorous controls are what existed before. Why were they tightened? Because they weren't working. Which is why they're not &quotpunitive&quot. Which is why the term is silly.

Incidentally, it is specious to suggest that because a developer builds in one area it will not build in another. If it can do so profitably it will do so in both.

[Snake]

I’m with scooter on this one. I live in a village in WODC and ok, it’s tough to get on the housing ladder there days but at least there are some creative schemes going ahead in my part of Oxfordshire.

Of course, we could always turn back the clock and build lots of 20 storey blocks of flats and fill them with people who are means tested as being the most needy and provide them with subsidised rents.

I have feeling the words “Margaret Thatcher

[Ascension Ox]

That's because &quotmarket forces&quot don't build much affordable housing, y'see. That's why housing became so unaffordable. That's why people like me ended up living in digs in our forties while watching expensive flats for young professionals go up all over the place while watching less rigorous targets for affordable housing being flouted or evaded.

Less rigorous controls are what existed before. Why were they tightened? Because they weren't working. Which is why they're not &quotpunitive&quot. Which is why the term is silly.

Incidentally, it is specious to suggest that because a developer builds in one area it will not build in another. If it can do so profitably it will do so in both.

Um, plenty of housing in England is currently becoming much more affordable. But I take your point chessman.

On a different note who's read this famous OUFC lease/licence ?

[Snake]

I’d like to even see a reference to it.

Tim, Dougie on your forum is waiting for a response so stop messing about on here. You’re supposed to be an OV committee member

http://www.oxvox.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopi ... mpstart=15

[recordmeister]

There seems to be a huge amount of talent on this board (unlike the OUFC board! boom boom!) whenever we come to discuss accounts (WPL, Firoka etc) or planning / sale of the land.

two main issues here:

1.Thank goodness this is not TiU and that this board exisits aside from TiU

2. Has anyone (OxVox for example) harnessed this talent to ask some really deep and cutting questions to OUFC? I'm just throwing a cat into an already flapping flock of birds here, but it seems that the talent and research on here isn't used to the full ability to ask questions of serious account to certain parties involved in the future of OUFC (OUFC itself, the council, Firoka etc). Again, I may be worng and everyone who makes these brilliant insights and does some excellent research may already be advising teams such as OxVox.

It is also a &quotbig up&quot to the people on here for their insight and eloquence into such issues, so rarely seen on football club fan message boards. well done all.

[Boogie]

There was reference to the football club having a lease when FK owned both the football club and the StadCo but I don't recall anyone ever saying they had seen the document.

I do not know if WPL took over the same &quotlease&quot or entered another deal (e.g lease / licence with option to purchase).

I am alarmed that it is being called a &quotlicence&quot as a &quotlicence&quot MIGHT not give OUFC security of tenure.

[Mally]

Strictly speaking, no, but that's sort of my point: outside those circles, no-one may know him better, but it's not a hard bar to get over.

DLT isn't quite right I and he knows of one Oxford fan who knows him a lot better but he doesn't post on here these days. I'm certainly not a friend or aquaintance either. Interestingly it wasn't FK himself who said that the storming of the boardroom was the last straw but it was somebody very close to him who was there at the time and was up all night negotiating the contract with WPL.

The whole debate about housing (affordable or otherwise) versus student accomodation or commercial development is fairly academic. The point remains the same that if OUFC are unable to pay the rent they can be thrown out and by definition no Oxfordshire based professional football club will be able to afford the stadium. The covenant can be overturned and the land can be redeveloped.

For other uses you don't need anything like the amount of car parking currently to the south and east of the stadium so its a very big chunk of land. I don't have access to the original plans at the moment but for those who do you can find out the size and then work out its value for various uses.

Of course Thames Water would come back for another pound of flesh from their original covenant but seeing as they own most of the land on the other side of Grenoble Road I'm sure a deal would be done.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

The point isn't really what happened in the boardroom: the point is what we can be expected to believe might have happened otherwise. I think it will be hard to convince people that we would have looked forward to a successful future with Mr Kassam at the enthusiastic helm.

[Isaac]

The point isn't really what happened in the boardroom: the point is what we can be expected to believe might have happened otherwise. I think it will be hard to convince people that we would have looked forward to a successful future with Mr Kassam at the enthusiastic helm.

Indeed, all the evidence under Kassam was that we'd continue to get worse, not better if he'd hung around. Perhaps relegation may have been avoided that particular season (although those claiming that Patterson would have kept us up are keeping quiet now aren't they?). Relegation would have happened eventually - the one season we threatened to get promted he sacked the manager. He had no idea about how to run a football club. Or any inclination to either.

The one unfortunate thing about the storming of the boardroom is that it should have happened much much earlier than waiting until when we were threatened with relegation. One of the reasons it didn't I suppose was the lack of an alternative.

[GodalmingYellow]

Lenagan's plan to buy the stadium was to find a partner who could co-fund the purchase in return for use of a development in a 4th stand and/or a development in the East stand. 2 years down the line and no partner has come forward. The stadium is on the wrong place for almost all potential partners. Assuming for a minute that such a partner could ever be found I have no faith in Merry's ability to do a workable deal with one and get around the planning minefield. My guess is that Lenagan has got bored with the whole thing now that he's got his hands on his first love - Wigan Warriers and the chance for owning the stadium is now all but gone. The half wits who stormed into the boardroom while Kassam was there with his daughters got exactly what they wanted and could well have screwed the club in the process. Strange that you don't see any of the ring leaders around these days isn't it?


Equally, you would have been half witted not to have been extremely angry at how the club was being run in the 2005/2006 season. Supporters had had enough of Kassam.

Don't rewrite history Mally.

Enough of the past. I am deeply disenchanted with the lack of leadership being shown by the current crew.

As to the next step that needs to be taken by well meaning , intelligent OUFC supporters, well either you give up on the club - easy to do - or take stock and think hard - not so easy. One thing for sure, that Gooner supporting hotelier is pretty key.

(How do you know that the chance of owning the current stadium has all but gone incidentally?

The storming of the boardroom had a direct cause and effect impact on Kassam deciding to sell the club to somebody who clouldn't afford the stadium - I believe it was the last straw that made him go against what he had previously promised - in his mind the contract with the fans had been broken. If you remember on that very day he had appointed a new manager and two general managers to run the club full time - why do you think he then sold up after doing that?

I don't know that the chance of owning the stadium has all but gone but I certainly believe it to be the case. WPL's plan was along shot 2 years ago. Now the club has a worse balance sheet, it's owners are poorer, our league position is lower our future prospects are bleaker but the stadium rent and the the price to buy it remains the same. We are heading headlong into a crisis situation.

I can't believe that the 'storming of the boardroom', as it is now amusing known, has become such an issue.

If you think 50 fans running into the Director's box shouting 'Kassam Out' made Kassam's mind up about selling then you really don't know the man.

This issue is entirely irrelevant. The deal was miles down the track by the time this incident happened. The fact that the deal was badly done by WPL is not the fault of any supporter and was not brought on by any protest.

Forgetting all that has gone before, the main problems seem to lie in WPL not securing a sensible stadium deal and the fact that they really didn't think we would get relegated.

I wouldn't say the deal was miles down the track when stormin' norman rasta led the &quotbrave&quot, but there had been 2 months of negotiations by then.

[GodalmingYellow]

The point isn't really what happened in the boardroom: the point is what we can be expected to believe might have happened otherwise. I think it will be hard to convince people that we would have looked forward to a successful future with Mr Kassam at the enthusiastic helm.

That isn't quite the point either, though it is related. The question is whether a better deal would have resulted if negotiations had been allowed to continue to a natural conclusion, rather than slow negotiations followed by a last minute rush, which in my view, WPL did not handle well.

[GodalmingYellow]

Strictly speaking, no, but that's sort of my point: outside those circles, no-one may know him better, but it's not a hard bar to get over.

DLT isn't quite right I and he knows of one Oxford fan who knows him a lot better but he doesn't post on here these days. I'm certainly not a friend or aquaintance either. Interestingly it wasn't FK himself who said that the storming of the boardroom was the last straw but it was somebody very close to him who was there at the time and was up all night negotiating the contract with WPL.

The whole debate about housing (affordable or otherwise) versus student accomodation or commercial development is fairly academic. The point remains the same that if OUFC are unable to pay the rent they can be thrown out and by definition no Oxfordshire based professional football club will be able to afford the stadium. The covenant can be overturned and the land can be redeveloped.

For other uses you don't need anything like the amount of car parking currently to the south and east of the stadium so its a very big chunk of land. I don't have access to the original plans at the moment but for those who do you can find out the size and then work out its value for various uses.

Of course Thames Water would come back for another pound of flesh from their original covenant but seeing as they own most of the land on the other side of Grenoble Road I'm sure a deal would be done.

And I believe that one other fan fully agrees that WPL cocked up.