Rage Online

As for Mally .Do you disagree with the business case re club and stadium that Lenagan presented?

I don't disagree with the business case because it didn't exist. &quotWe plan to buy the stadium with somebody else's money 2 years from now&quot isn't what I would call a business case.

&quotMally&quot wrote:

As for Mally .Do you disagree with the business case re club and stadium that Lenagan presented?

I don't disagree with the business case because it didn't exist. &quotWe plan to buy the stadium with somebody else's money 2 years from now&quot isn't what I would call a business case.

Buying the stadium is always going to involve someone else's money! Ask any property developer. Ask Kassam if you like. I believe you have his phone number after all.

&quotResurrection Ox&quot wrote:

&quotMally&quot wrote:

As for Mally .Do you disagree with the business case re club and stadium that Lenagan presented?

I don't disagree with the business case because it didn't exist. &quotWe plan to buy the stadium with somebody else's money 2 years from now&quot isn't what I would call a business case.

Buying the stadium is always going to involve someone else's money! Ask any property developer. Ask Kassam if you like. I believe you have his phone number after all.

No need to call Firoz I just asked myself, seeing as I was the closest property developer I could find.

You know that's not what I meant or Lenagan meant. I think once they decided to buy the club they should also be prepared to borrow the money to buy the stadium at the agreed price. With the saving in rental, additional revenue opportunities and the existing conference centre business the interest payments would be covered.

Instead they have a plan to get somebody else to share or even cover the cost 2 years down the line.

&quotMally&quot wrote:

&quotResurrection Ox&quot wrote:

&quotMally&quot wrote: I don't disagree with the business case because it didn't exist. &quotWe plan to buy the stadium with somebody else's money 2 years from now&quot isn't what I would call a business case.

Buying the stadium is always going to involve someone else's money! Ask any property developer. Ask Kassam if you like. I believe you have his phone number after all.

No need to call Firoz I just asked myself, seeing as I was the closest property developer I could find.

You know that's not what I meant or Lenagan meant. I think once they decided to buy the club they should also be prepared to borrow the money to buy the stadium at the agreed price. With the saving in rental, additional revenue opportunities and the existing conference centre business the interest payments would be covered.

Instead they have a plan to get somebody else to share or even cover the cost 2 years down the line.

Is that such a bad thing? That's why consortia get together isn't it? Lenagan is kind of looking for an insurance policy on stad purchase I guess by getting others involved. Others indeed , who may have an alternative use for the land other than sports and leisure. IE accomodation. Is that so dopey?

Was Lenaghan involved in London Broncos? (CVA a couple of years ago if my memory does not fail me.

ResOx - it's possibly not dopey (I don't know enough about large scale property development and stadium usage to guess), the concern is what happens if he can't find anyone interested, in the same way Cox and Herd couldn't find anyone interested. What's his contingency plan, beyond cutting his losses and leaving us in debt?

As far as I can see this isn't a discussion between right and wrong, but a discussion between caution and risk-taking. Given our experiences in the past I think a lot of people here are very suspicious of ambitious plans involving a lot of money but with a certain amount of hope and faith attached: there's a bias on this forum (which I think I share) towards cutting your cloth and avoding debt as far as is possible.

I doubt however whether it's shared by Oxford fans in general: like most football fans they probably want to hear how somebody's going to put in a lot of money and take us up the divisions.

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:As far as I can see this isn't a discussion between right and wrong, but a discussion between caution and risk-taking. Given our experiences in the past I think a lot of people here are very suspicious of ambitious plans involving a lot of money but with a certain amount of hope and faith attached: there's a bias on this forum (which I think I share) towards cutting your cloth and avoding debt as far as is possible.

I doubt however whether it's shared by Oxford fans in general: like most football fans they probably want to hear how somebody's going to put in a lot of money and take us up the divisions.

That's very true POU, and there is nothing wrong with investment to progress the club, provided it can be repaid. A big problem arises though when borrowing is undertaken to subsidise ongoing running costs, which is what is being budgeted by WPL. Its a bit like you or I continuing to spend over our overdraft limit and getting a bigger and bigger overdraft rather than reigning in our spending to what we can afford.

On the stadium front, which is slightly different issue but related and intertwined, I've said many times that the club needs to have common control over the stadium to prgress, for the reasons Mally has given above. However, with large debts being budgeted, and a premium price for the stadium, I will take some persuading it is achieveable with what is on the table at present.

If Mr Lenghan had announced that he hoped to buy the stadium in partnership with a rugby club, who would be the majority shareholder, how do you think the fans would have reacted?

No its not dopey but If it was up to me I'd go ahead and borrow the money to buy the stadium and THEN go looking for partners to help fund it. In the scheme of things the cost of doing this is not prohibitive. Once you've taken into account the saving in rent and additional income from owning the stadium it's possible that the club could break even on the deal.

The most important thing for me is that the club and stadium are under common control and ownership thus securing the club's future and ability to generate non-football revenues. All the time that Kassam owns the stadium there is a risk that somebody will come in and buy the stadium at a price WPL can't afford. Also having taked to Ian Lenagan I don't think he fully understands the emotional attachment to the stadium and all the pain that the club and the fans went through in trying to get it built in the first place.

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:As far as I can see this isn't a discussion between right and wrong, but a discussion between caution and risk-taking. Given our experiences in the past I think a lot of people here are very suspicious of ambitious plans involving a lot of money but with a certain amount of hope and faith attached: there's a bias on this forum (which I think I share) towards cutting your cloth and avoding debt as far as is possible.

I doubt however whether it's shared by Oxford fans in general: like most football fans they probably want to hear how somebody's going to put in a lot of money and take us up the divisions.

I think you've hit the nail pretty squarely on the head there.

Though it would be nice to think there was a Middle Way of some sort...

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote: a Middle Way of some sort...

coincidentally i read that anthony giddens has a free hand or two at the moment...

&quotDLT&quot wrote:If Mr Lenghan had announced that he hoped to buy the stadium in partnership with a rugby club, who would be the majority shareholder, how do you think the fans would have reacted?

Bad at first and then very badly when the fact that the rugby club being the major shareholder basically translates to the fact that we would still be a tenant and out of a home in 17 to 18 years.

Mally and others have said about common control and ownership and this cannot be under estimated for the long term financial stability and success of OUFC.

Agree with Mally about funding the purchase now, save rental costs and bring in non-footy revenue and then go out and try to get funding for the 4th side. The stadium position seems a long way from the position at December when it was something along the lines of &quot we might own the stadium before the end of the year (2006)&quot.

I wasn't at the forum but from what I've heard and read, concerns over increasing debt and the ability to repay it, seem valid to me. The loans will have to be repaid at some time in the future. Of course, with Deano in the premiership now - they may have banked on 1 to 2 Million for our share of his next sale?

&quotFrank&quot wrote:Agree with Mally about funding the purchase now, save rental costs and bring in non-footy revenue and then go out and try to get funding for the 4th side. The stadium position seems a long way from the position at December when it was something along the lines of &quot we might own the stadium before the end of the year (2006)&quot.

All well and good but at the moment the cost of loan repayments on the stadium are significantly greater than OUFC pays in rental (and remember the figure quoted in the last set of accounts includes overheads which would have to be paid anyway e.g. electric bill).

Any talk of increasing the income generated from stadium/conference centre will have a certain finger-in-the-air element about it because it's hard to quantify how much business it isn't getting at the moment as a result of Kassam's involvement. One can only assume that Lenagan and Co have looked at this and decided that they couldn't be certain that any increase in revenue will be sufficient to cover the costs.

There must also be an element of &quotcan we be bothered&quot with buying the stadium. It means taking on a whole new business and working it to its maxium potential. At the moment, with the club where it is, it makes much more sense to focus on our core business of football before branching out in to running conference centers and doing catering.

It's the same principal as why some business rent office and others own their own buldings.