Does IL have a clue?

[ty cobb]

My view is based on my opinion that Chris Wilder was an excellent manager and doing a excellent job this season. We had a record breaking away run, we were very close to automatic promotion this season and we had a number of players coming back from injury. Our home record was letting us down but still respectable - we'd have been mid table otherwise. The players he brought in this season, both on permanant and loan had really added to the squad and he was giving young players a chance.

Despite this a number of fans didn't want to give him a new contract and seemed please when he had gone. The drop off in form and our once proud away record being ruined by a number of thrashings show that this was rather a stupid view.

Maybe if we had have been #unitedwestand when he was manager he may still be here. He went after jobs beacuse IL would only give him a one year rolling contract and seemed to say he expected automatic promotion despite not giving him a top 3 budget.

And I'm not giving up which is why I am so bloody frustrated. The only person who seems to have given up is IL who's approach to all this is causing the problem.

[Brahma Bull]

My view is based on my opinion that Chris Wilder was an excellent manager and doing a excellent job this season. We had a record breaking away run, we were very close to automatic promotion this season and we had a number of players coming back from injury. Our home record was letting us down but still respectable - we'd have been mid table otherwise. The players he brought in this season, both on permanant and loan had really added to the squad and he was giving young players a chance.

Despite this a number of fans didn't want to give him a new contract and seemed please when he had gone. The drop off in form and our once proud away record being ruined by a number of thrashings show that this was rather a stupid view.

Maybe if we had have been #unitedwestand when he was manager he may still be here. He went after jobs beacuse IL would only give him a one year rolling contract and seemed to say he expected automatic promotion despite not giving him a top 3 budget.

And I'm not giving up which is why I am so bloody frustrated. The only person who seems to have given up is IL who's approach to all this is causing the problem.

I am all for good debate.

It wasn't just the fans who didn't want him to give a contract. It appears it was the senior management too otherwise it would have been forthcoming. Chris had been given a one year deal with some clear objectives. I fully understand Wilder's predicament and I also understood the decision for the club to not enter talks until he had achieved their objectives, those he agreed to last May. He was asked to embrace youth - he only did when the demands for new loan players were seemingly rebutted.

He went after jobs long before Portsmouth and Northampton. He went after jobs throughout the last 18 months. Having sat next to a recently sacked manager at Wycombe away, he asked, unprompted, "why is your manager applying for all these jobs?" before he went on to commend our magnificent away following.

I would concur he was a good manager. One which did excellently well in his first three years. Like it or not, it did go stale and our home form was not respectable at all and hadn't been for some seasons.

The mantra #unitedwestand extends to more than just supporters, it is an entire club ethos which everyone needed to buy into.

[GodalmingYellow]

Despite this a number of fans didn't want to give him a new contract and seemed please when he had gone. The drop off in form and our once proud away record being ruined by a number of thrashings show that this was rather a stupid view.

Who are these people though Ty? I've not come across them.

For my part, and the vast majority of supporters I've spoken to, and read contributions of, there wasn't a problem giving Wilder a new contract, provided he got us promoted, with his squad that you so eloquently describe. And that was precisely what Wilder had already agreed and signed up to and the timing of that decision had been agreed with Wilder as well.

The only reason this position changed was because Wilder decided he wanted more job security than that and wanted a decision earlier than he had previously agreed to, in which case, he should not have agreed to the deal with IL in the first place. The fault for that situation rests entirely with Wilder and is a clear indicator that he was not prepared to back himself or his squad, and that reflects very badly on Wilder too.

We can argue about Wilder's record until we are blue in the face, and for my part I would say he did a decent but not exceptional job, but that makes not one shred of difference, its history.

The reason OUFC is failing is not because Wilder left, but because IL did not replace him quickly enough and IL badly mis-judged the impact of not having a permanent manager in place.

[Jimski]

Like it or not, it did go stale and our home form was not respectable at all and hadn't been for some seasons.

I don't understand this "gone stale" business. Yes, our home form wasn't brilliant, but our overall form was enough to have us very close to an automatic promotion position despite an awful injury record. There was nothing particularly wrong with our points total under Wilder *this season*, whatever one's thoughts on other aspects of his management may be.

[ty cobb]

I disagree GY I think the reason we are now failing is because Wilder left, bringing in someone else may not have made any difference at all, I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

I was under the impression that the target this season was the play offs, especially with the development squad only just being on-line. At Christmas it looked like we were well on the way to achieving that and therefore at that point I would given Wilder a new contract. Otherwise the strategy is completly flawed. The longer we stayed near the top the more attractive Wilder looked to other clubs, by refusing to discuss a new contract with him until it had been confirmed whether we were in the play offs or even promoted was always going to result in Wilder, or any manager for that matter walking away. And what about player recuitement for next season, with no clarity over who the manager is you can't get new players lined up, sign existing players onto new contracts, the whole team drifts and if I was a member of that team I would be looking elsewhere too if my contract was up. You surely can't expect anyone to stay in a job when there is no security.

If IL thought Wilder was not the long term man for the job he should never have given him a contract at the start of the season as this was never going to end well, if we had done well (as we have done) someone would have come in for Wilder, had we have done badly Wilder would have known the writing was on the wall and been looking around anyway.

If you assess the situation at Christmas you would surely come to the conclusion that we were in with a very good shout at automatic promotion. You need to take steps to ensure that position isn't thrown away, be it ensuring your current manager is going to stay or decide that he isn't the man for the job and get someone else lined up. IL did neither, indeed I wonder what planning he did to ensure the season wouldn't go down the pan as it seems to be none at all.

BB - I would imagine it was because Wilder knew he was not going to get a new contract until the end of the season, so as any normal person would do they would look for something with more security - I know I would.

And if you think it had gone stale this season given our league position and how far we were clear of 7th than I suggest you reassess your expectations and think of the last time we had such a good chance of promotion from this league.

[GodalmingYellow]

I disagree GY I think the reason we are now failing is because Wilder left, bringing in someone else may not have made any difference at all, I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

I was under the impression that the target this season was the play offs, especially with the development squad only just being on-line. At Christmas it looked like we were well on the way to achieving that and therefore at that point I would given Wilder a new contract. Otherwise the strategy is completly flawed. The longer we stayed near the top the more attractive Wilder looked to other clubs, by refusing to discuss a new contract with him until it had been confirmed whether we were in the play offs or even promoted was always going to result in Wilder, or any manager for that matter walking away. And what about player recuitement for next season, with no clarity over who the manager is you can't get new players lined up, sign existing players onto new contracts, the whole team drifts and if I was a member of that team I would be looking elsewhere too if my contract was up. You surely can't expect anyone to stay in a job when there is no security.

If IL thought Wilder was not the long term man for the job he should never have given him a contract at the start of the season as this was never going to end well, if we had done well (as we have done) someone would have come in for Wilder, had we have done badly Wilder would have known the writing was on the wall and been looking around anyway.

If you assess the situation at Christmas you would surely come to the conclusion that we were in with a very good shout at automatic promotion. You need to take steps to ensure that position isn't thrown away, be it ensuring your current manager is going to stay or decide that he isn't the man for the job and get someone else lined up. IL did neither, indeed I wonder what planning he did to ensure the season wouldn't go down the pan as it seems to be none at all.

BB - I would imagine it was because Wilder knew he was not going to get a new contract until the end of the season, so as any normal person would do they would look for something with more security - I know I would.

And if you think it had gone stale this season given our league position and how far we were clear of 7th than I suggest you reassess your expectations and think of the last time we had such a good chance of promotion from this league.

Well I could refute each of those points one by one very easily, but it would just be repeating the points I've already made, so we've kind of reached a point of impasse, and we'll just have to recognise that we don't agree on this one, rather than going round in circles.

[Brahma Bull]

And if you think it had gone stale this season given our league position and how far we were clear of 7th than I suggest you reassess your expectations and think of the last time we had such a good chance of promotion from this league.

I didn't suggest the league position was a problem. People were staying away for a number of reasons and they did include the quality of football seen at home and certainly some people didn't like the manager - I was nonplussed as I was interested solely in fighting for the top 3 and to fall back on the Play-Offs - which would represent a successful season in my view.

I, as you may know, am very keen on the youth players and development squad playing a part. The last point was an area which I didn't think Wilder embraced out of choice. I also didn't appreciate some of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans which were important in building a successful football club. I don't need to add any more on that it's all irrelevant now.

What are your expectations? My expectation is of a manager who embraces youth, makes a serious challenge for promotion and over-achieves his budget - the latter being something which normally all successful club sides do. I don't think my expectations needs any re-assessment.

[JoeyBeauchamp]

I, as you may know, am very keen on the youth players and development squad playing a part. The last point was an area which I didn't think Wilder embraced out of choice.

So? He did embrace it, keeping his end of the bargain when he was awarded a new contract. I'm sure privately he would have liked to bring in loan players, but did what he had been asked and did it pretty well, if you look at the games in which the Dev Squad played.

[Brahma Bull]

I, as you may know, am very keen on the youth players and development squad playing a part. The last point was an area which I didn't think Wilder embraced out of choice.

So? He did embrace it, keeping his end of the bargain when he was awarded a new contract. I'm sure privately he would have liked to bring in loan players, but did what he had been asked and did it pretty well, if you look at the games in which the Dev Squad played.

My belief is he didn't out of choice. He was forced to use it and that was forced by the refusal to allow loan players to come in during November and December. Lo and behold, the players when given a chance, did fantastically well. Prior to our injuries, hardly any of them got a look in.

Josh Ruffels was soon being talked about as one of the best midfield prospects at the club, Bevans came into the side and performed heroically until he was dropped in January. David Long debuted well too. Unfortunately, Marsh/COD haven't taken their chances. Next on the production line is Roberts and Ashby.

[Myles Francis]

My belief is he didn't out of choice. He was forced to use it and that was forced by the refusal to allow loan players to come in during November and December. Lo and behold, the players when given a chance, did fantastically well. Prior to our injuries, hardly any of them got a look in.

Josh Ruffels was soon being talked about as one of the best midfield prospects at the club, Bevans came into the side and performed heroically until he was dropped in January. David Long debuted well too. Unfortunately, Marsh/COD haven't taken their chances. Next on the production line is Roberts and Ashby.

Spot on. When Josh Ruffels was signed, Wilder didn't want him and made him train with the youth team. When injuries gave him an opportunity, he came into the side and bossed the midfield in two games against a Championship level team.

To say that Wilder "embraced" use of the Development Squad isn't, IMHO, an accurate reflection of the situation.

[slappy]

We get a mention in this story about Burnley's backroom staff for only using 24 players this season.

Interesting to see Northampton have used 41, I wonder what the figure was before Wilder took over?
http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/D ... 26,00.html

[Jimski]

I only make it 23. In the league anyway. Maybe they are counting the Cup as well, in which case David Lynn takes it to 24. (I could easily have missed someone though!)

[Hog]

For my money, we are a decent Division 4 side who might, just might, get to mid-table in Division 3 with a fair wind. I would love to see us go higher - but I fear that THAT would be "over-achieving".

Doncaster, Yeovil, Bournemouth, Swansea, Wigan, Brighton, Huddersfield, Barnsley, Cardiff, Orient, Peterborough, Hull or Fulham supporters could have made exactly that kind of statement in the last decade but where are they now? It's not so long ago we competed on the same terms/leagues as them.

Up to their ears in it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27224806

[GodalmingYellow]

For my money, we are a decent Division 4 side who might, just might, get to mid-table in Division 3 with a fair wind. I would love to see us go higher - but I fear that THAT would be "over-achieving".

Doncaster, Yeovil, Bournemouth, Swansea, Wigan, Brighton, Huddersfield, Barnsley, Cardiff, Orient, Peterborough, Hull or Fulham supporters could have made exactly that kind of statement in the last decade but where are they now? It's not so long ago we competed on the same terms/leagues as them.

Up to their ears in it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27224806

Jeez that's a real eye watering loss for a club of their size.

[ty cobb]

Well I think todays events have nailed the answer to this question, wrong wrong wrong wrong on so many fronts.