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Quite an interesting report on the game from the Luton messageboard, if anyone can be arsed to read it. Cut through the biased bollocks and it gives a reasonably good account of Oxford.

&quotboris&quot wrote:Quite an interesting report on the game from the Luton messageboard, if anyone can be arsed to read it. Cut through the biased bollocks and it gives a reasonably good account of Oxford.

Green passed him with more ease than Mr Bolt jogging past an 80 year old carrying some heavy shopping up a steep hill.

Very good.

Aren't we in our stand because thats where the supporters club was meant to be?

&quotty cobb&quot wrote:Aren't we in our stand because thats where the supporters club was meant to be?

I don't know but I thought the Supporters Club was supposed to be in theWest Stand.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Moving on, all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere imo. No one is moaning about the KasStad aura now we are having a great run. It was quite brilliant on Tuesday, despite the desperate old hoolies.

Is Hillsborough forgotten?

Well I'm moaning. I went to the Forest Green game on BH Monday, and the atmosphere was crap despite the big crowd. It was far better on the terrace at Wimbledon a couple of days earlier.

And please don't bring Hillsborough into it. Everyone knows that had nothing to do with well-designed terracing, and everything to do with appalling crowd control.

For the millionth time (at least it feels like it), no-one wants to stop you sitting down at a match. We just want the right to stand up in safety. It's called choice. Grown-up, thought-through, educated choice. And it is particularly frustrating that educated, grown-up people like you continue to want to deprive others of choice, just because the status quo suits your personal choice. Even though a change wouldn't affect you one iota.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote: Moving on, all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere imo. No one is moaning about the KasStad aura now we are having a great run. It was quite brilliant on Tuesday, despite the desperate old hoolies.

It was brilliant on Tuesday because the majority of people in the East Stand were standing for 90% of the time.

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote:

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Moving on, all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere imo. No one is moaning about the KasStad aura now we are having a great run. It was quite brilliant on Tuesday, despite the desperate old hoolies.

Is Hillsborough forgotten?

Well I'm moaning. I went to the Forest Green game on BH Monday, and the atmosphere was crap despite the big crowd. It was far better on the terrace at Wimbledon a couple of days earlier.

And please don't bring Hillsborough into it. Everyone knows that had nothing to do with well-designed terracing, and everything to do with appalling crowd control.

For the millionth time (at least it feels like it), no-one wants to stop you sitting down at a match. We just want the right to stand up in safety. It's called choice. Grown-up, thought-through, educated choice. And it is particularly frustrating that educated, grown-up people like you continue to want to deprive others of choice, just because the status quo suits your personal choice. Even though a change wouldn't affect you one iota.

Luton atmosphere was brilliant though, that's my point. As far as AFC was concerned, half our supporters standing behind the goal could not see who had scored our goal! I hated the place. Still each to their own.

Why can't I bring Hillsborough into it? That's the reason why we have all seater stadia isn't it? Different point but would Leppings Lane have happened if that part of the ground has been all seater in 1989?

Who said I was 'depriving you of choice', what are you on about??
If enough supporters make enough noise about this then the clubs will listen and Parliament will eventually listen. Plenty of interested parties remain extremely nervous re terracing. But if the law changes then fair enough, I have no objection.

I repeat what I said, 'all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere'. Nothing more, nothing less. Re read what I posted before going off on one, sunshine.

&quotA-Ro&quot wrote:

&quotty cobb&quot wrote:Aren't we in our stand because thats where the supporters club was meant to be?

I don't know but I thought the Supporters Club was supposed to be in theWest Stand.

No it was going to be in the East Stand plan, that's what the big bulge is all about. The empty concrete section at the back of the seats was going to be &quotbusiness class&quot (I kid you not) seating with direct access to the bar behind.

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote:

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Moving on, all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere imo. No one is moaning about the KasStad aura now we are having a great run. It was quite brilliant on Tuesday, despite the desperate old hoolies.

Is Hillsborough forgotten?

Well I'm moaning. I went to the Forest Green game on BH Monday, and the atmosphere was crap despite the big crowd. It was far better on the terrace at Wimbledon a couple of days earlier.

And please don't bring Hillsborough into it. Everyone knows that had nothing to do with well-designed terracing, and everything to do with appalling crowd control.

For the millionth time (at least it feels like it), no-one wants to stop you sitting down at a match. We just want the right to stand up in safety. It's called choice. Grown-up, thought-through, educated choice. And it is particularly frustrating that educated, grown-up people like you continue to want to deprive others of choice, just because the status quo suits your personal choice. Even though a change wouldn't affect you one iota.

Bit unfair - nobody wants to deprive anybody of anything from what I've read.

Agreed. Hillsborough had &quotnothing to do with well-designed terracing&quot but it had a lot to do with badly designed terracing. Appaling crowd control caused the situation to occur but if the terracing was better designed then the impact of the police action would not have resulted in people losing their lives.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Luton atmosphere was brilliant though, that's my point.

I don't quite get your point then. Are you saying that because the atmosphere was great for one big game, then all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere? If so, I can't agree.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote: As far as AFC was concerned, half our supporters standing behind the goal could not see who had scored our goal! I hated the place. Still each to their own.

But that's the point! We're not talking about a stadium where everyone would have to stand with a crap view. We're talking about a situation in which people could CHOOSE to stand or sit, depending on their preference.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Why can't I bring Hillsborough into it? That's the reason why we have all seater stadia isn't it? Different point but would Leppings Lane have happened if that part of the ground has been all seater in 1989?

Well, if the police had let thousands of extra people without tickets through the gates, then directed them all into an already overcrowded (and fenced in) area, then stopped them getting out onto the pitch, then I don't suppose it would have been a very pretty picture even if sofas had been laid out.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Who said I was 'depriving you of choice', what are you on about?? If enough supporters make enough noise about this then the clubs will listen and Parliament will eventually listen. Plenty of interested parties remain extremely nervous re terracing. But if the law changes then fair enough, I have no objection.

But you obviously do have an objection, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up Hillsborough! Who remains 'extremely nervous' about terracing? Nervous about the public reaction maybe, but anyone who has done any research into the use of terracing in modern football stadia would surely not be 'extremely nervous' about it's possible re-introduction on safety grounds.

I don't believe Hillsborough would have happened if there had not been pens in the Leppings Lane end &amp 100% would not have happened without fences so those getting crushed could have spilt on to the pitch. Terracing can be safe. Standing fans = more atmosphere. But also agree that the view is nearly always worse from terracing as opposed to seats - but it ain't always great from seats with pillars and the like in the way, especially if forced to sit in a designated seat.

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote:

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Luton atmosphere was brilliant though, that's my point.

I don't quite get your point then. Are you saying that because the atmosphere was great for one big game, then all seater stadia are fine for atmosphere? If so, I can't agree.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote: As far as AFC was concerned, half our supporters standing behind the goal could not see who had scored our goal! I hated the place. Still each to their own.

But that's the point! We're not talking about a stadium where everyone would have to stand with a crap view. We're talking about a situation in which people could CHOOSE to stand or sit, depending on their preference.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Why can't I bring Hillsborough into it? That's the reason why we have all seater stadia isn't it? Different point but would Leppings Lane have happened if that part of the ground has been all seater in 1989?

Well, if the police had let thousands of extra people without tickets through the gates, then directed them all into an already overcrowded (and fenced in) area, then stopped them getting out onto the pitch, then I don't suppose it would have been a very pretty picture even if sofas had been laid out.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote:Who said I was 'depriving you of choice', what are you on about?? If enough supporters make enough noise about this then the clubs will listen and Parliament will eventually listen. Plenty of interested parties remain extremely nervous re terracing. But if the law changes then fair enough, I have no objection.

But you obviously do have an objection, otherwise you wouldn't have brought up Hillsborough! Who remains 'extremely nervous' about terracing? Nervous about the public reaction maybe, but anyone who has done any research into the use of terracing in modern football stadia would surely not be 'extremely nervous' about it's possible re-introduction on safety grounds.

Answers

1 Yes, All seater stadia are fine for atmosphere in my book.
2 As I said previously, I don't have a problem with your 'choice' of whether to stand or sit. The terraces at AFC were however awful imo. You could not see the whole pitch, what a waste of money!
What exactly is your argument with me here?
3 I actually don't agree with you here, seating would have helped at Leppings Lane.
4 Not enough people share your views about terracing. Otherwise the law would have been changed.

To conclude, please let us not have asinine arguments about 'vibrant' Manor and 'soulless' KasStad. It is footballers that create atmosphere . It just so happens that we are getting things right on the pitch currently. And hey presto the KasStad is a hotbed of passion.

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote: 4 Not enough people share your views about terracing. Otherwise the law would have been changed.

The law's not a popularity contest, thankfully (otherwise we'd still have the death penalty and fox hunting and immigration would probably be illegal). A lot of laws are changed because of the power (usually financial) of professional lobbyists, not because of some cause capturing the imagination of a relatively small pressure group.

3 I actually don't agree with you here, seating would have helped at Leppings Lane.


Yes, of course it would - in exactly the same way as banning all motors vehicles would eradicate death and injury on the roads.

&quotboris&quot wrote:

&quotAscension Ox&quot wrote: 4 Not enough people share your views about terracing. Otherwise the law would have been changed.

The law's not a popularity contest, thankfully (otherwise we'd still have the death penalty and fox hunting and immigration would probably be illegal). A lot of laws are changed because of the power (usually financial) of professional lobbyists, not because of some cause capturing the imagination of a relatively small pressure group.

Sorry, that's simplistic. If enough people feel strongly about an issue, things happen on a legislative front . And I can offer plenty of examples.

I never understand this all seating v terracing argument. For me, the conclusion is really simple. Allow standing at the back and sitting at the front. That way everyone gets their choice and those who want to stand don't annoy those who want to sit. Simples.