Romans go home

[Isaac]

GY - my point with Futcher is that you really can't judge a player on 1 or 2 games. Well you can, but there's a very good chance you'll be proved wrong. Maybe he just had a bad game, maybe he is actually a step 6 level player (although his career history suggests not), maybe it's match fitness (and I agree on your point there), or perhaps he and Wright struggled together. I think if you'd never seen Oxford before yesterday, you'd have thought Wright was very poor too, especially seeing as his mistake led to the goal. They were both bullied I thought. Doesn't make Wright a donkey.

As for the &quotloan&quot signings argument, surely of the 3 loan players at least 2 are intended to be permanent - Wooton, Futcher have been signed until Jan I presume with the intention to sign them on then (although maybe not if they continue like that). Only Maclean looks a traditional loan player, as he's only got a month. 2 of the christmas loan signings last year - Wright/Tonkin turned into crucial players for us, the method in which we sign players is not necessarily the problem. Getting the right players is what's difficult.

Ok, perhaps we'd be pleased to be 4th from bottom in league 2 was a clumsy way of making my point that despite the up and downs, progress has been pretty good since Wilder came to the club. Despite his sometimes seemingly unnecessary player roulette.

However, I don't necessarily think that finishing 3rd in the conference would mean we should expect to be at the top end of league 2 the next season. Not saying that 4th from bottom is ok (I'd think midtable would mean we'd done fairly well), but I don't know any other division where if you got promoted from the one below, you can reasonably &quotexpect&quot to be near the top of the higher standard division straight away.

[BigCrompy]

I don't know any other division where if you got promoted from the one below, you can reasonably &quotexpect&quot to be near the top of the higher standard division straight away.

Except maybe Division III, 1984..?

[OXUFC4Life]

NEW PLAYERS NEED TIME TO BED IN WE MUST ALLOW THEM THAT TIME
THINK WORLEY BETTER THAN WRIGHT
TRY COLE FOR POTTER

GET OFF WILDERS BACK THIS IS FIRST BAD RUN SINCE HE ARRIVED
THOSE WHO THINK WE ARE GOING TO WALK THIS LEAGUE NEED TO WAKE UP

These are so called professional players CW has brought in. Futcher is a joke and needs sending back, from what I saw Saturday he would struggle in the Conference. Maclean you can see something.

Words fail me with comments that the Beast is not League 2 standard. The Wembley winning team were not given a change to prove themselves, and certainly Creighton. I work with a Coventry City supporter who was amazed we have shipped Creighton out. He remembers him playing for Kiddiminster v Coventry (Championship) in the FA Cup, saying that Creighton was immense and was given MOTM by the Sun Newspaper. At the time word was they were looking into signing him with the departure of Scott Dann. I then thought about our game against Yeovil (League 1), Creighton was awesome and again given MOTM. I honestly think Wright and Creighton is the best partnership with Worley sub. Okay they had a big blip with the Bradford game (who did shine that day?). Wrexham must think their Christmas has come early. When Creighton plays he seems to install confidence throughout the team which can only be a good thing. Okay he may not be the quickest (certainly not the slowest) but he reads the game well. Strength, guts and passion which Creighton has go a long way to get the team going and I would imagine he is quite a character in the dressing room. As one Kidderminster fan has commented “I feel the heart went out of Kiddi team when he left…

[SWA]

good post that ^^^^^

[Werthers Original]

yes agree re Beast

Wilder is not confident in his job, that's why he's so arrogant / aggressive/ stubborn. Coping with league opposition is proving too hard. It's a shame he doesn't have more experienced coaching staff to help him.

[Geoff]

One thing that's been baffling me for a while. CW is quick to change players when it suits him, but is stubborn, to the point of being pig-headed, about changing the formation. Whether our current problems are the fault of the formation is a moot point (I happen to think they are) but I don't understand Wilder's differing approaches to personnel and formation. Can somebody close to the club throw any light on this?

[Dr Bob]

According to the OM match report (cannot be bothered to check the accuracy of this), there were eight changes on Saturday from the team that played Torquay. CW better be careful, or the FA will charge him with failing to field the strongest possible team....

BTW right next to that match report, under &quotAds by Google&quot, the first ad is for &quotSheffield United Hotels&quot, highlighting &quot3* and 4* hotels near Bramall Lane.

Just observing....

[GodalmingYellow]

GY - my point with Futcher is that you really can't judge a player on 1 or 2 games. Well you can, but there's a very good chance you'll be proved wrong. Maybe he just had a bad game, maybe he is actually a step 6 level player (although his career history suggests not), maybe it's match fitness (and I agree on your point there), or perhaps he and Wright struggled together. I think if you'd never seen Oxford before yesterday, you'd have thought Wright was very poor too, especially seeing as his mistake led to the goal. They were both bullied I thought. Doesn't make Wright a donkey.

In most circumstances you are right that it is not possible to judge a player in so short a time frame. However, where a player is so bad that even improvement on an heroic scale would still not be good enough, then I think we can.

I repeat, if Futcher is not fit, he should not have been signed. If he is lacking match practice, he should not have been signed (unless coming from a much higher level which he wasn't). Even if either of the aforementioned were true, that would still not explain why he played to such a poor standard.

Futcher's history, and I haven't checked it, does not mean he is any good now.

I don't agree with you about Wright. His back pass was foolish, but he didn't play to the sub-sandard of Futcher, not by a long chalk.

[neilw]

There's a strong case for arguing that Bulman and Creighton aren't up to League 2 standard. However, there's an even stronger case to suggest that a team needs characters whom lead through example and inspire those around them. I believe both Bully and the Beast did this.

For many years we've longed for the fight, tenacity and stature of Bulman and Creighton type characters. When we finally found them, we let them go too easily. Their weaknesses could be identified, whilst their intangible value to the team was not sufficiently valued.

In letting Bully go, the team lost its heart beat. This is so very evident in our current play.

Wilder is in self destruct mode at the moment, undoing every thing he himself created. He created the goodwill and togetherness but now seems set on causing friction and factions.

[SWA]

good post that ^^^^^

[Dr Bob]

There's a strong case for arguing that Bulman and Creighton aren't up to League 2 standard. However, there's and even stronger case to suggest that a team needs characters whom lead through example and inspire those around them. I believe both Bully and the Beast did this.

For many years, we've longed for the fight, tenacity and stature of Bulman and Creighton type characters. When we finally found them, we let them go too easily. Their weaknesses could be identified, whilst their intangible value to the team was not sufficiently valued.

In letting Bully go, the team lost its heart beat. This is so very evident in our current play.

Wilder is in self destruct mode at the moment, undoing every thing he himself created. He created the goodwill and togetherness but now seems set on causing friction and factions.

Quite - does every played need to be of Division 4 standard for the team to do well in this Division? I think not.

[GodalmingYellow]

There's a strong case for arguing that Bulman and Creighton aren't up to League 2 standard. However, there's and even stronger case to suggest that a team needs characters whom lead through example and inspire those around them. I believe both Bully and the Beast did this.

For many years, we've longed for the fight, tenacity and stature of Bulman and Creighton type characters. When we finally found them, we let them go too easily. Their weaknesses could be identified, whilst their intangible value to the team was not sufficiently valued.

In letting Bully go, the team lost its heart beat. This is so very evident in our current play.

Wilder is in self destruct mode at the moment, undoing every thing he himself created. He created the goodwill and togetherness but now seems set on causing friction and factions.

Quite - does every played need to be of Division 4 standard for the team to do well in this Division? I think not.

Personally I'm far from convinced that they were not up to standard. they may not have been promotion winning standard, but they were certainly squad standard and at least very useful alternatives.

We should have given the promotion squad, with a couple of additions, a good 12 weeks or so to prove themselves in this division.

[Matt D]

although of course that prompts the usual supporter questioning of 'what's he brought them in for if he's not going to play them?'.

my concern is that this was all done the wrong way round. i would've liked to have seen players given the chance to show whether they really were good enough or not for this league before they were shown the door. for many of them, i don't feel that happened.

the clist/bulman partnership in the midfield that, for me, ran our team last season wasn't even given an outing this season (okay, clist was injured and by the time he was back bulman was gone, but still).

[recordmeister]

There's a strong case for arguing that Bulman and Creighton aren't up to League 2 standard. However, there's and even stronger case to suggest that a team needs characters whom lead through example and inspire those around them. I believe both Bully and the Beast did this.

For many years, we've longed for the fight, tenacity and stature of Bulman and Creighton type characters. When we finally found them, we let them go too easily. Their weaknesses could be identified, whilst their intangible value to the team was not sufficiently valued.

In letting Bully go, the team lost its heart beat. This is so very evident in our current play.

Wilder is in self destruct mode at the moment, undoing every thing he himself created. He created the goodwill and togetherness but now seems set on causing friction and factions.

Quite - does every played need to be of Division 4 standard for the team to do well in this Division? I think not.

Err... but if they do well in league two, are they not then, by their very nature, League 2 Standard?

[neilw]

The point being, it's not about the individual standard of the players, it's about having a TEAM that can compete at League 2 standard. A team dynamic is complex, but key ingredients to a successful one, will include the type of leadership, example and presence, which Bully &amp Beast gave us.

For me, the real loss is Bulman.