As far as I'm aware Henry hasn't received any ban yet. If he did, could it be played out in friendlies? I'm not sure of the rules on that one. If so, it might not impact on his World Cup games at all. Where's the justice in that!"A-Ro" wrote:The punishment for handball is a maximum 3 match ban and more normally just a yellow card, what do you want it to be? cut his hand off maybe?"Geoff" wrote:How serious does the offence have to be? It's that kind of weak kneed approach which encourages players to cheat. Perhaps if the punishment fitted the crime (i.e. more onerous) it might deter players in the future.
Now I'm being idiotic.
Gillette
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A-Ro
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Agreed - which is why I suggested that the authorities ban him from the opening round of the World Cup. i.e. the first 3 games."Geoff" wrote:As far as I'm aware Henry hasn't received any ban yet. If he did, could it be played out in friendlies? I'm not sure of the rules on that one. If so, it might not impact on his World Cup games at all. Where's the justice in that!"A-Ro" wrote:The punishment for handball is a maximum 3 match ban and more normally just a yellow card, what do you want it to be? cut his hand off maybe?"Geoff" wrote:How serious does the offence have to be? It's that kind of weak kneed approach which encourages players to cheat. Perhaps if the punishment fitted the crime (i.e. more onerous) it might deter players in the future.
Now I'm being idiotic.
FIFA's genius PR move of initial silence has let this grow into too big an issue to just ignore. The media have built it up so that there are only three possible responses:
1) France cheated - ban France from the WC
2) Henry cheated - ban Henry from the WC
3) Cheating is OK
Edit: great article from John Nicholson: http://www.football365.com/john_nichols ... 95,00.html
In an organisation with people like Jack Warner at the top, is it any wonder than people further down the tree try it on?
1) France cheated - ban France from the WC
2) Henry cheated - ban Henry from the WC
3) Cheating is OK
Edit: great article from John Nicholson: http://www.football365.com/john_nichols ... 95,00.html
In an organisation with people like Jack Warner at the top, is it any wonder than people further down the tree try it on?
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Kernow Yellow
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I understand why Ireland are upset by this - I still remember how I felt after the Maradonna incident. But I'm slightly bemused why the rest of the world is getting so exercised.
People always try and gain a competitive advantage in sport, even unfairly, especially when big rewards are at stake. Look at cricket - still a much more 'honest' game than football, but most batsman now stand rather than walk when they're caught. Is there a clamour for them to be banned from tournaments? Of course not. When a ref is present it's up to him/her to get decisions right. It's often extremely frustrating when they don't, and they should certainly be given more help to be able to get it right more of the time, but accepting their fallibility is as important a part of sport as learning to be honest in the first place.
The Henry case is no more abhorrent to me than the sight of Steven Gerrard (or Gary Lineker, or Michael Owen or whoever) blatantly diving to win a penalty in a crucial World Cup match. In fact, I'm less upset about it because it's less premeditated.
As others have pointed out, the rule book would have to be completely rewritten to justify punishing France or Henry now, and it would be grossly unfair if that were to happen retrospectively. By all means let FIFA change the rules from now on if they want to learn from this, but they would be quite wrong to try and act to change this result imo.
One last thought - the French press reaction of refusing to celebrate qualification as it was gained through 'un-French' behaviour can't help but remind me of when Le Pen refused to celebrate France's World Cup win on the grounds that 'you only had to look at the team to see they weren't really French'. Or maybe I've just lived in France too long...
People always try and gain a competitive advantage in sport, even unfairly, especially when big rewards are at stake. Look at cricket - still a much more 'honest' game than football, but most batsman now stand rather than walk when they're caught. Is there a clamour for them to be banned from tournaments? Of course not. When a ref is present it's up to him/her to get decisions right. It's often extremely frustrating when they don't, and they should certainly be given more help to be able to get it right more of the time, but accepting their fallibility is as important a part of sport as learning to be honest in the first place.
The Henry case is no more abhorrent to me than the sight of Steven Gerrard (or Gary Lineker, or Michael Owen or whoever) blatantly diving to win a penalty in a crucial World Cup match. In fact, I'm less upset about it because it's less premeditated.
As others have pointed out, the rule book would have to be completely rewritten to justify punishing France or Henry now, and it would be grossly unfair if that were to happen retrospectively. By all means let FIFA change the rules from now on if they want to learn from this, but they would be quite wrong to try and act to change this result imo.
One last thought - the French press reaction of refusing to celebrate qualification as it was gained through 'un-French' behaviour can't help but remind me of when Le Pen refused to celebrate France's World Cup win on the grounds that 'you only had to look at the team to see they weren't really French'. Or maybe I've just lived in France too long...
I agree 100% with Kernow on this one. The outrage wouldn't be anything like as sanctimonious (if it existed at all) if the handball had been at the expense of Iceland instead of Ireland. Just because they're a bunch of pseudo-Brits (or is it because it was the French who were the beneficiaries)!
And as for GY's list of proposed rule changes, some of them are just so fundamentally wrong that I'm surprised he doesn't work for FIFA.
And as for GY's list of proposed rule changes, some of them are just so fundamentally wrong that I'm surprised he doesn't work for FIFA.
FWIW, using technology for every decision would not be practical as the TV official would probably face a backlog of decisions reaching well into the evening.
Goalline decisions would be practical, as it is as clear cut a decision as is possible within the game (as compared to say other types of foul) as it could be done with the game continuing, but with confirmation of the ball crossing the line overruling anything else that happened in the meantime.
Saying that, I could go with the tennis style limited number of challenges per team per game, as that would allow major oversights to be corrected without holding up the game to any great length.
The other aspect I would suggest however, is that each referee (and assistants if necessary) should sit down with some standardised TV footage of the game (say from 2 cameras on each side/end of the pitch) and be allowed to retrospectively award/resind any card decisions he made during the game.
This is preferable to outsiders undermining their authority by changing decisions for them, and allow them to earn credibility by being seen to correct their own errors.
It would also allow them to award cards to every player who crowded them during a MAnUtd style packhunt and/or couple up the pictures with his own knowledge of what he heard/saw at the time...
Goalline decisions would be practical, as it is as clear cut a decision as is possible within the game (as compared to say other types of foul) as it could be done with the game continuing, but with confirmation of the ball crossing the line overruling anything else that happened in the meantime.
Saying that, I could go with the tennis style limited number of challenges per team per game, as that would allow major oversights to be corrected without holding up the game to any great length.
The other aspect I would suggest however, is that each referee (and assistants if necessary) should sit down with some standardised TV footage of the game (say from 2 cameras on each side/end of the pitch) and be allowed to retrospectively award/resind any card decisions he made during the game.
This is preferable to outsiders undermining their authority by changing decisions for them, and allow them to earn credibility by being seen to correct their own errors.
It would also allow them to award cards to every player who crowded them during a MAnUtd style packhunt and/or couple up the pictures with his own knowledge of what he heard/saw at the time...
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As it happens then I think that this is something that I disagree with you about - and that’s an extremely rare event, Paul."Baboo" wrote:Chris Wilder is against the use of technology. It's the first thing I have disagreed with him on as far as I know.
Even in something like the World Cup Final I’d rather we just left it to the referee to decide what happens. The last thing we want in terms of spontaneous joy or agony is others meddling in that precious moment when you think we’ve/they’ve won or lost.