I keep thinking it can't get any worse...

[GodalmingYellow]

And to make my point. I enquired about leasing a warehouse to park some taxis in last week and I was told the rent was 160K per year plus rates and utilities.

I just can't see where these 'outlandish' comments from. An office complex down the road like the one OUFC staff occupy would cost the same as the whole stadium costs OUFC.

£160k? Was it the size of a small airfield? I have clients with hi tech engineering factories paying 1/10th of that.

[GodalmingYellow]

1. Yemi is not a winger. Either play him down the middle or not at all.

2. Trainer looked far more up for it then others, got the ball down, ran with it and looked a good player. Why then take him off and leave Hand on who was having another shocking game - I hope Patto doesn't have favourites.

3. Quinn is not a good centre back. He hoofs the ball evertime he gets it and up against a decent physical striker he struggles.

4. Murray is a good player, even amongst all that rubbish.

5. Richards and Craig Mc are not goalscorers, Duffys all round play is far better then Richards and he scores goals. He may not jog after a defender like Richards does, but I don't really care.

6. Turley is not the best keeper in this league. He wouldn't even be in my top 5. If he's injured give him a rest and give Worrall some experiance - there's nothing to play for now.

7. One other team got over 1000 fans yesterday in our league, even if gates go down to 3000 we should still have a far higher budget then anyone else - where on Earth has the money gone this season.

8. The half time show is proving to be the only thing that is bringing a smile to my face at the moment.

I can't even be bothered. You know my reply.

[GodalmingYellow]

The stadium charge is made up of £275k rent and £125k maintenance. I know £275k is a lot of money, but it’s not as much as this £400k that keeps on being quoted.

For the £125k the club get a groundsman, business rates, electric, non-matchday security, cleaning and general stadium maintenance. All of that stuff would have to be paid for if the Stadium was bought. So for £400k read £125k in the future.

And yes, if appears that WPL got stitched up like a kipper at a National Naïve Convention when it came to drawing up the deal. But then again, I don’t think for a minute they thought that we’d be relegated or that Jim and then Patto would make such a dog’s dinner of the on-field business.

At least this season the club won’t have to pay too may win and promotion bonuses, or have employed as many stewards or police.

It’s all just getting rather sad, and we’ve got another 11 games of this season left to endure.

Sounds reasonable until you realise that many of those costs relate to the Conference Centre, and the rent only covers offices during the week and stadium on matchdays.

There is next to no maintenance carried out. The groundsman was the cheapest option available. The electric bill for a few offices is next to nothing, and the stadium lights go on maybe 15 times a year.

So yes, £400k is a lot, and yes WPL should have had the nouse to negotiate a better deal for non-league football.

[Matt D]

the 'fuse' of the supporters is getting shorter, so i'm encouraged to read some comments on here that recognise that the first 15 minutes were positive. we needed to score then, and didn't. i read oxblogger saying that the collapse in spirit that occured in the game is inevitable when a team is in this kind of position, but i'm not so sure - i think we should be concerned when there's such a collective lack of interest in the game.

coming back to the atmosphere in the ground, for all the noble talk about giving patterson time, large sections of our support are now calling for his head, and describing a team composed largely of loan players as 'his' team, which seems pretty unfair to me. if this is the way it's going to be, with managers given an ever decreasing amount of time, i don't see how we can hope to get out of this division. i saw on TiU that there are calls for protests again, yet no one has suggested as to what the protests would be for or against - oxford being rubbish i suspect.

back to the game, i think quinn has to carry much of the responsibility for saturday - his distribution has never been great, but his performance was pretty awful all round, and his leadership as captain clearly ineffective. phil trainer looked the best of the side, but disappeared after a bright start. anyone want to say anything about james clarke's sending off? the cards all looked harsh to me, but i see other people say that certainly the second yellow was justified.

[GodalmingYellow]

the 'fuse' of the supporters is getting shorter, so i'm encouraged to read some comments on here that recognise that the first 15 minutes were positive. we needed to score then, and didn't. i read oxblogger saying that the collapse in spirit that occured in the game is inevitable when a team is in this kind of position, but i'm not so sure - i think we should be concerned when there's such a collective lack of interest in the game.

coming back to the atmosphere in the ground, for all the noble talk about giving patterson time, large sections of our support are now calling for his head, and describing a team composed largely of loan players as 'his' team, which seems pretty unfair to me. if this is the way it's going to be, with managers given an ever decreasing amount of time, i don't see how we can hope to get out of this division. i saw on TiU that there are calls for protests again, yet no one has suggested as to what the protests would be for or against - oxford being rubbish i suspect.

back to the game, i think quinn has to carry much of the responsibility for saturday - his distribution has never been great, but his performance was pretty awful all round, and his leadership as captain clearly ineffective. phil trainer looked the best of the side, but disappeared after a bright start. anyone want to say anything about james clarke's sending off? the cards all looked harsh to me, but i see other people say that certainly the second yellow was justified.

1st yellow looked very harsh, 2nd yellow deserved.

[boris]

I suspect that Clarke might have got away with just a talking to for the first booking if he'd gone over to the ref straight away. However, he deliberately walked off, and the ref had to blow his whistle several times before Clarke grudgingly trudged over to him. It wouldn't surprise me if the booking was for that rather than the foul (and I wasn't surprised he got booked for that, as it was a deliberate trip designed to prevent a Burton break).

The second was an obvious booking.

[theox]

I've asked this question before, but what the hell. What do they do in training? What do they f@c~ing do in training???

Why don't we ever seem to score goals like their third?

How hard is it to practice throw ins? Or even just talk about them?

Why does every other team seem to understand that you need to move and make yourself available for a pass?

Why can't professional footballers do simple basic skills like trapping the ball and passing it accurately to a team mate?

And so on and so on. These aren't particularly bad players by comparison to the players in the sides we play. But week after week we are outplayed by fitter, more commited, more coherently organised, motivated sides with far less resources. Players that show initial promise quickly deteriorate and become one with the general useless morass that is our squad. So what is it? Appalling scouting? Coaching and management? Our location and the fact that the players don't live near the club? Something altogether more rotten and fetid?

My mood's with Hog on this one (and not just because he sits next to me and is twice my size vertically): I just sat there thinking why do I do this, why? It makes me unhappy, it spoils my evening, I'm usually scrambling to get there before or get back somewhere after and it's wasting a large chunk of my weekend to no obvious benefit. The club needs to be thinking about this urgently and be seen to be responding, or there won't be enough people there to make any noise banging the seats of those of us who will be missing. I'm fed up with this, with the endless decline, the little upturns that turn out only to be a pause before another helter-skelter plunge into the depths.

Couldn't agree more.

It's been going on for years now. How the hell do you stop a rot which is this far advanced?!

[Shoobedoo]

It's been going on for years now. How the hell do you stop a rot which is this far advanced?!

Nail, head, smack. How do you stop 10 years of unremitting decline? Once again we find the club sinking like a stone… it’s as well that we’d amassed a reasonable number of points at the start of the season because – Histon and Droylsden aside – we look like a side more likely to be relegated than promoted.

While I have no major beef against Patterson (although going 4-3-3 and signing – and playing – Jamie Hand may go some way to changing my mind on this), it’s going to take more than a rookie manager to turn this club around – and sadly with an absentee financier who's more interesting in eggchasing and a chairman whose only attribute seems to be an unerring ability to bury his head in the sand at the first sign of trouble, I can’t see it happening.

[ty cobb]

1. Yemi is not a winger. Either play him down the middle or not at all.

2. Trainer looked far more up for it then others, got the ball down, ran with it and looked a good player. Why then take him off and leave Hand on who was having another shocking game - I hope Patto doesn't have favourites.

3. Quinn is not a good centre back. He hoofs the ball evertime he gets it and up against a decent physical striker he struggles.

4. Murray is a good player, even amongst all that rubbish.

5. Richards and Craig Mc are not goalscorers, Duffys all round play is far better then Richards and he scores goals. He may not jog after a defender like Richards does, but I don't really care.

6. Turley is not the best keeper in this league. He wouldn't even be in my top 5. If he's injured give him a rest and give Worrall some experiance - there's nothing to play for now.

7. One other team got over 1000 fans yesterday in our league, even if gates go down to 3000 we should still have a far higher budget then anyone else - where on Earth has the money gone this season.

8. The half time show is proving to be the only thing that is bringing a smile to my face at the moment.

I can't even be bothered. You know my reply.

Does this mean everytime I make a point as long as I say Rob Duffy is better then Richards you won't respond??

A red card for those two tackles was very harsh, neither were dangerous and you see far worse go unpunished every week.

We're going to get sub 4000 crowds next season paying the same rent - is there going to be anyway out of this mess?

Whilst the level of rent may be ok the fact that all the advertising, catering, beer sales etc all go to Kassam make it almost impossible to make any money on top of ticket sales for OUFC.

As this was the whole reason for moving to the ground I am thoroughly pi$$ed off that Kassam has managed to get rid of the one piece of the jigsaw that made a loss whilst keeping hold of everything else that went with it.

Can someone please come up with a reasonable figure for what Kassam paid for the ground (not what it is now worth) this is what the offer should be, Kassam will still have the leisure complex which he got on the cheap because of OUFC and we should pay no more then he paid for the ground.

Where does the figure of £13 million come from?

[boris]

A red card for those two tackles was very harsh, neither were dangerous and you see far worse go unpunished every week.

A tackle doesn't have to be dangerous to be worthy of a booking - if it's unsportsmanlike, which both of Clarke's tackles were, then they are bookable offences. The fact that worse go unpunished every week doesn't mean that Clarke should also have been allowed to escape punishment.

Anyway, as others have said, maybe it's all for the best - the game was already lost, the one-match ban will give him a rest, and it's an experience he can (hopefully) learn from. Clarke's emergence has been one of the few bright points in this depressing season, so I hope that he will rein in his attitude and really shine next season.

[SmileyMan]

The current management will not fix the problems at the club. Sadly, what is required is someone with a serious amount of wedge to come in, clear out the cobwebs and put the club back on its feet.

Both the fans and the management need to accept that we are a Conference side. Until the &quottoo good for this league&quot attitude is gone, ironcially we'll never leave it.

I've decided that I'd like to spend a few years not trying to get promoted. Instead, I'd like to see the stadium bought and completed (I know I've previously been against this, but I've changed my mind - having an unfinished building named after a former chairman irritates the hell out of me - imaging what it does to the players? I want to go on confidence boosting and media grabbing cup runs. I want to plough money into a centre of excellence for the regions youth and then sell them on up the pyramid.

Maybe, just maybe, with all that in place, we can keep one or too of those good youths for a season and get ourselves up to League Two. But we keep trying to build a skyscraper on quicksand. To torture a metaphor, let's dig some deep foundations, fill them with concrete, let the concrete set hard, then build an attractive bungalow.

[Isaac]

I don't think we should get rid of Patterson either, but I am hugely concerned. As I've mentioned before I've got the suspicion that he's filled the side with mediocre conference players and the results back that up. We can beat the weak sides but struggle against anyone in the top 10.

I have to confess that I've not seen a game since the Kiddy home game in January so my comments don't come from first hand experience of actually watching the team so are quite likely to be rubbish!

However Patterson said that we looked &quotleggy&quot last 20 minutes again on saturday. Everyone has commented on this all season, yet it never ever seems to change, basic professionalism from Patterson should ensure he gets the players fit. Certainly against a side like Burton (who played tuesday and thursday). It's unbelievable. It was true under Smith and Patterson has had 3 months to get them fit but has failed miserably.

In my experience in lower league football you need 3 things

1) Basic organisation (if Patterson wants 4-4-2, he should stick to it).
2) Good set pieces (has there been any improvement here?).
3) Fitness.

So far I think Patterson has possibly managed number 1 sometimes and occasionally number 2, although I remain to be convinced. After Saturday he's also now suggesting that most of the loan players he's signed might not be up to it. Can we have any faith that he's going to be more successful in the summer?

[Isaac]

As for the centre of excellence idea - I bet the likes of Abingdon, Brackley and Oxford City will be delighted to let us provide them with more players.

Slightly cynical that, but I think most fans would rather see success on the pitch.

[GodalmingYellow]

1. Yemi is not a winger. Either play him down the middle or not at all.

2. Trainer looked far more up for it then others, got the ball down, ran with it and looked a good player. Why then take him off and leave Hand on who was having another shocking game - I hope Patto doesn't have favourites.

3. Quinn is not a good centre back. He hoofs the ball evertime he gets it and up against a decent physical striker he struggles.

4. Murray is a good player, even amongst all that rubbish.

5. Richards and Craig Mc are not goalscorers, Duffys all round play is far better then Richards and he scores goals. He may not jog after a defender like Richards does, but I don't really care.

6. Turley is not the best keeper in this league. He wouldn't even be in my top 5. If he's injured give him a rest and give Worrall some experiance - there's nothing to play for now.

7. One other team got over 1000 fans yesterday in our league, even if gates go down to 3000 we should still have a far higher budget then anyone else - where on Earth has the money gone this season.

8. The half time show is proving to be the only thing that is bringing a smile to my face at the moment.

I can't even be bothered. You know my reply.

Does this mean everytime I make a point as long as I say Rob Duffy is better then Richards you won't respond??

A red card for those two tackles was very harsh, neither were dangerous and you see far worse go unpunished every week.

We're going to get sub 4000 crowds next season paying the same rent - is there going to be anyway out of this mess?

Whilst the level of rent may be ok the fact that all the advertising, catering, beer sales etc all go to Kassam make it almost impossible to make any money on top of ticket sales for OUFC.

As this was the whole reason for moving to the ground I am thoroughly pi$$ed off that Kassam has managed to get rid of the one piece of the jigsaw that made a loss whilst keeping hold of everything else that went with it.

Can someone please come up with a reasonable figure for what Kassam paid for the ground (not what it is now worth) this is what the offer should be, Kassam will still have the leisure complex which he got on the cheap because of OUFC and we should pay no more then he paid for the ground.

Where does the figure of £13 million come from?

It means every time you say Robert (2 goals in open play in 13 months) Duffy is better than almost anyone else, everyone knows it to be rubbish!

On to the more serious point. It depends what you mean by what it cost Kassam. For example, Kassam benefitted massively from grants by allowing Oxford Learning United to use the stadium, he benefitted massively from grants available for new stadia. As you rightly say he benefitted from withholding what should be club revenue. He benefitted from the sale of The Manor. He has benefitted from rising land prices and from buying up addiitonal land and using it as part of an overall scheme which was supposed to benefit the club and which he re-divertred to himself. This is a question I've been over many times myself and there are many factors that could be considered. I would say a fair estimate is £9m net cost that he has had to finance, and co-incidentally that is what I reckon a fair price is to make StadCo a goer.

The £13m figure isn't for the stadium. It is for StadCo which owns the stadium, and there is a ludicrously large element of stadium company turnover included as goodwill to arrive at that £13m figure.

[scooter]

Arriving at a fair figure using normal valuation techniques is irrelevant to our situation.

We are not in an open market, as far as I know there is only one Football League standard stadium available in the locality and likelihood of getting planning for another one is zilch.

We also have the scenario where FK will have in his head what the land/stadium is worth to him without a tenant and without a planning restriction, probably more than thirteen mill, certainly more than nine mill.

We are now paying the price for playing into his hands and pushing him to do a quick deal with the ECLS.

An interesting point was made in the other place by an OxVox committee member that Merry told them we don't have a lease, we have a licence apparently.

I'm not well enough up on commercial tenancies to understand any implications of that.

This is an interesting link http://www.turnerbutler.co.uk/memo.asp? ... QgodXBfZwg