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Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:45 pm
by YellowHoods
Myles Francis wrote:
YellowHoods wrote:Yellow Voice is undoubtedly an odd place.

Apparently there is no "agenda" attached to the forum. The fact that the majority of the very few active members all show undisguised hatred for Mark Sennett, dislike for the whole OxVox Committee, the Yellow Army initiative and the Lenagan tenure must be purely coincidental then.
Considering that it originated as a breakaway faction which was deemed too "out there" even for Yellows Forum, it's no surprise that it is an "odd place"!
It started after the OxVox forum was taken down by its owners. An OxVox section was subsequently opened on Yellows Forum, but YF was deemed far too rough and ready for the more refined posters who moved to YV as soon as it was set up by a mystery benefactor.

So, instead of the occasional "fuck off" or passionate debate on YF we have endless diatribes against Sennett/OxVox/YA/Lenagan, interspersed with assurances that the new forum has no axe to grind against anyone. You really couldn't make it up.

Hello Myles, by the way.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:46 pm
by Myles Francis
I bow to your superior knowledge of the forums, Pete. I haven't even looked at YF for a very long time indeed!

PS Are you still on the same mobile number?

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:04 pm
by YellowHoods
Myles Francis wrote:I bow to your superior knowledge of the forums, Pete. I haven't even looked at YF for a very long time indeed!

PS Are you still on the same mobile number?
I am.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:47 pm
by neilw
[quote="Snake"]At least on this forum things seem a bit more reasoned and it does exactly what it says on the tin i.e. “An Independent Voice of Oxford United Supporters”. My kid was once the 12th Man and he still has the signed shirt and photos of the day (framed at massive cost) as pride of place in his room. Until recently I’d been trying to cajole/bribe him into donating it to the newly named bar but I can cross that off my ‘to do’ list now. It’s such a shame what is going on, but well done to Trevor Lambert for all his significant efforts which date back to 1998 and I really hope that things get better off the field as well as on it. Divided and multiple fans organisations and a disinterested owner are a slippery slope, which is why in the last few months of the life I have left I was at Anfield rather than Morecambe at the weekend.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/From-Graveyard- ... 1445619393[/quote]

Snake, it's not your story, it's not your club, you're gate crashing somebody else's party and no matter how much you keep banging on, you'll never justify your fickle following to yourself or anyone else on this forum.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:43 am
by Snake
"Gate crashing"? "Not my story"? Hey, you missed out the term ‘jumping on the bandwagon’ to really stick the knife in but when I was stationed in Wales at Uni 37 years ago I was more than a casual at the Vetch Field when Swansea nearly won what is now called the Premier League a few years later.

My posting on this thread was about the current disunity amongst Us, and suggesting a book that is worth reading which IMHO is a model for Oxford United or any other ‘small’ club to follow because it's a glowing example of what Supporters Direct can offer. Your reaction/reply sums up exactly what is wrong with the hundred or so off the field activists that are left at Minchery Farm.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:01 am
by Jimski
This whole situation really confuses me now. I haven't really kept track of OU supporters groups for quite a while now, though I have always been an OxVox member. But when people such as Trevor are being sidelined against their wishes, it does give me pause for thought. What does come out of these reports is that OxVox / YellowArmy seem very much tied to the club now - is that a mistaken impression? I'd really rather we had a properly independent fans group.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:30 pm
by Matt D
Jimski wrote:This whole situation really confuses me now. I haven't really kept track of OU supporters groups for quite a while now, though I have always been an OxVox member. But when people such as Trevor are being sidelined against their wishes, it does give me pause for thought. What does come out of these reports is that OxVox / YellowArmy seem very much tied to the club now - is that a mistaken impression? I'd really rather we had a properly independent fans group.
i would second what snake says above about what a united fan base can achieve, and agree that some of what's happened of late have really not helped that. in my own view, a lot of this is driven by personal differences/problems, and that's a real shame that for whatever reason it can't all be sorted out for the advancement of supporter interests at OUFC. i guess when you have groups of volunteers though, if people really can't agree, then they walk away, which i think is a waste of potential and does no one any good.

anyway, aside from saying that, i'll stay out of all that and just answer the question about oxvox independence (i'm not involved in the yellow army, although have helped hang up banners and so on for them when i can).

oxvox is exactly the same as when it was established. it is funded by member fees, fund-raising efforts, and donations, so is independent from the club or anyone else in that sense. it has an elected committee that run it. a third of the committee resign each year, and any member is welcome (indeed encouraged!) to stand for the committee (for those of you who are members, you have until midnight next thursday to cast your votes in the current election. let me know if you haven't had details of this). so it is independent in that sense too. don't like what the trust is doing? think we're not critical enough? you have an annual opportunity to help run it and change that.

i think the trust has always maintained an independent stance in relation to the club. what i think is true at the moment, which hasn't always been true in the past, is that we have a pretty good relationship with the club, and by-and-large the committee (i hope the rest of them don't mind me speaking on their behalf) have a postive view of the way the club is run at the moment.

for me i think that as it strikes me the club has a real long-term vision in place, and the signs are that they are delivering more than just words on this. the things i like of that plan (and i think these coincide with oxvox's long-standing coda) are:

1. a community-oriented club (i think this season we've seen the club making sure players and staff are mixing with supporters before and after games in a way we haven't before, community events are attended, the club were for the first time willing to discuss the issue of formal supporter representation, and so on),
2. a club that looks to bring through young players (the evidence is now there to see on the pitch, and i must admit to being surprised how well those young players have delivered for Us),
3. a club with better control on its finances (a longer-term aim that will only show results over time, but i would say that from what we can tell things are moving in the right direction),
4. a successful club on the pitch as a result of those previous aims (we'll see, but the league position at the moment is slightly higher than my pre-season prediction).

i guess if a supporters' trust is not constantly throwing criticisms the way of the club, then it opens itself up to that charge of being tied to the club. but i don't see the point of being critical for the sake of being critical. i hope we're critical when needed (so pushing the club on the issue of homophobia, providing feedback around issues of pricing, and so on: and we very much have our eye on those last two points i listed above to see how these continue to develop), but equally i think we need to be positive when there's something to be positive about. my view is that so far this season there's been a lot to be positive about.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:29 pm
by Jimski
Thanks for the reply, Matt. I'm relieved and pleased that OxVox is still as it was, an independent supporters trust. I think I was confused by the statement that Oxford United had approved only the YellowArmy as "official" fundraisers, and a lot of chatter that seemed to link YellowArmy and OxVox.

So what is your take on the whole 12th Man thing?

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:57 pm
by Snake
Jimski wrote:So what is your take on the whole 12th Man thing?
You know that Matt can’t properly answer that question, but at least it was good to get some input from one of the conflicting personalities on Oxford United’s longest surviving internet discussion board. And if people like Mark and Trev and Simon don’t contribute for a while then don’t be surprised and just be patient as ‘Eric Pollard’ will probably be on here soon.

Meanwhile - https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CKZYRGH (my cat is a member)

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:51 pm
by Brahma Bull
Kernow's, Snake's and Matt's post has prompted me to add my thoughts.

In response to continued criticism someone asked this week why would anyone give up their spare time to be part of a voluntary 'supporters' group? I thought long and hard about that and in my case my time isn't spare, far from it. Yet my sole involvement in the Trust has been always to try and make a meaningful difference to the football club I support and its supporters. I have three young kids, which I have shamefully neglected to an extent to help OxVox and the original 12th Man over the past six years. For the past six-twelve months I and a few others have been constantly criticised and abused from a small group of people who have either an issue over certain personalities or the fact that this committee has a good working relationship with the current Board, which doesn't fit in with their ideologies.

I have seen numerous committee members come and go (as some of you have) and they all have given up their free time and made decisions with the interests and goodwill of the membership and wider fanbase.

At my choice and personal cost, I decide to travel from Slumdon to Oxford at my own expense to attend committee meetings and other meetings every six weeks or so. I spent hours in the early years of the 12th Man Initiative and I am proud to have contributed to its success. But in fact I have much better things to do with my time than get abused by a certain forum, by a group of people (on the face of it claim to be interested independent observers BUT are happy to get in touch with OxVox committee members even as recently as Friday last week - people who, I have had plenty of dealings with over the years) who have taken a personal dislike to one individual or the fact that the current committee are supportive of the owner.

Moreover I am looking forward to stepping down at some point in the near future and I will be able to post in a more honest and frank way.

Meanwhile I smile at (and applaud) the suggestion that members of Yellow Voice intend to form an Independent Fans Group because they can't be bothered to change the one which exists. Besides the cost of someone with some money to set it up and for others to hide behind the people they ask to front it I will take great pleasure in asking them some questions.

To sign off if the individual posting as The Manor Ground on Yellows Voice continues to make unsubstantiated, inaccurate and libellous comments about me then I will be seeking legal advice. I have this evening asked a contributor of that forum to provide me with an email address to make a complaint but surprisingly he cannot assist me. When I do then I expect the post to be deleted.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:46 pm
by Snake
Thank you for that, Simon. We’ll now have to patiently wait until Trevor and/or Mark contribute to this thread to help clear matters up.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:39 am
by Jimski
Snake wrote:You know that Matt can’t properly answer that question
Actually I don't even know enough to know why this is so...

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:50 am
by Brahma Bull
Brahma Bull wrote:
To sign off if the individual posting as The Manor Ground on Yellows Voice continues to make unsubstantiated, inaccurate and libellous comments about me then I will be seeking legal advice. I have this evening asked a contributor of that forum to provide me with an email address to make a complaint but surprisingly he cannot assist me. When I do then I expect the post to be deleted.
Having spoken at length on the phone to a well-regarded contributor yesterday of Yellow Voice and his kind attempts to seek an email contact to enable me to make a private complaint to one of the moderator's, it's disappointing to report that this information wasn't forthcoming. Apparently no one has a way of contacting them or for the outside world to contact them. A generic email address would have been perfectly fine. I need to register to seemingly do that.

So despite the good folk at Yellow Voice acknowledging my post above and inviting me to debate it, I have been advised not to register at this time. I don't need to debate libellous comments. I have tried to date to deal with this amicably and if the information to contact them isn't made available by them that's their prerogative.

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:18 pm
by Snake
Hog wrote:Just picked up on this on that strange site and it seems to have gone under the radar on here. Very strange.

http://www.yellowvoice.co.uk/post/12th- ... 1?trail=15
Looks like Yellow Voice is going to die in 5 days time - http://www.yellowvoice.co.uk/post/messa ... ce-6790585

Re: The 12th Man initiative

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:36 pm
by Kernow Yellow
So they (whoever they are) are happy for people to dish out unpleasant personal abuse on their forum, except when it's directed at themselves. And if the closure has got nothing to do with the supposed legal action, as they claim, why keep banging on about it in the statement?

It's also strange that they seem to think theirs is (or was) the only OUFC forum 'totally independent of outside influence or control'!

Another thing that saddens and disappoints me - and bringing this back partly towards the original topic of the 12th Man initiative - is that I read on that forum that Trevor Lambert and his wife have resigned their life memberships of OxVox. Now, I understand that they're unhappy with the current committee - they've made that pretty obvious with their recent actions with the 12th Man. But OxVox is what we, the fans and members, make of it. It is not owned by anybody, it is an independent supporters trust and will hopefully outlast this and many future committees. It needs to remain strong for when it is really needed. Those who feel inclined can change its direction by getting involved, and voting against proposals where appropriate. But a founder member publicly resigning a life membership smacks of rather petty point-scoring. OxVox is not defined by the personalities of those who set it up, nor by those of any past, current or future committee. It is sad that some fans, who have done so much good both for it and for the club as a whole, seem to want to use it as a political football.

United we stand. Yeah right.