I keep thinking it can't get any worse...

Anything yellow and blue
ty cobb
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Post by ty cobb »

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:
&quotDLT&quot wrote:Backto your original point, Kassam didn't want to fail. He just couldn't get it right. He should have sacked the moaners in his staff early doors, but he felt that would create a riot. Instead he let the jolly of crew walk round all day spreading a moaning culture.
The trouble with this view is that it portrays Kassam too generous, too nice, too ready to let things go. Does that strike anybody as convincing? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to suggest that people found him unpleasant to work for when they could find him at all, that he communicated no sense of interest or enthusiasm in the club or in what they did, and that he had no idea as to who a good manager might be or how they might need to work.

Kassam presumably knows a very great eal about his business, but it doesn't follow that he understood very much about a very different sort of operation. A common error.

Nor was it what he was primarily interested in. I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again, but it's hard to see how any organisation can prosper long unless there's enthusiasm from he person at the top. Until the club either falls into the hands of such a person - somebody for whom it will be Priority A - or goes bust, the latter being the more likely eventuality - there is no chance of it recovering.

In my opinion the only person who's been around in the last twenty years who fitted that description was Robin Herd. But Robin, of course, had too little money and too much to drink. But before the money ran out the club was thriving - not because he was spending vast millions (though he was spending, and probably too much) but because it was a good place to be.
As a supporter I'd be rather upset if my money was being spent on providing a overnight stay and a slap up meal on away games to players who our money is already providing a decent living, when it makes not one bit of difference to the results on the pitch.

But then I live a life of no debt and didn't mind the cost cutting introduced by Kassam - as I've said previously making the club run at a profit (even after paying the rent) is unheard of in the history of OUFC.

Other people think that a spend spend spend approach is the key to success, like Maxwell did in the 80's, but the hangover from that is often pretty severe.

Unfortunitly Merry et al have taken the spend spend spend approach with no success on the field to show for it - quite the opposite.

Had Kassam appointed a good manager and enjoyed a bit of success I think his interest and enjoyment of the club would have grown, however, he lost interest due to the results on the pitch - much like many fans now have. The ironic thing is that the set up he brought in before being forced out of taking a step back putting Patto in charge and looking to bring Magilton in alongside would have prob kept us up and I think Patto and Magic would have done a decent job.

I was never convinced by these he wants Oxford to fail, I took him at his word at the forums I attended and as we're seeing on TiU it doesn't matter who's in charge the masses are never happy unless we're winning on the pitch.

I still don't know why he got rid of Atkins though - that was very very poor timing.
Ancient Colin
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Post by Ancient Colin »

There's always a danger of rewriting history and forgetting what the end of the Atkins era was like: from January until 14th March, we played twelve games, won just two, lost five and drew six, scoring just nine goals in that period and failing to score in seven of those games.
Isaac
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Post by Isaac »

&quotAncient Colin&quot wrote:There's always a danger of rewriting history and forgetting what the end of the Atkins era was like: from January until 14th March, we played twelve games, won just two, lost five and drew six, scoring just nine goals in that period and failing to score in seven of those games.
How many other clubs sack their manager while they're in the playoff positions? I think we even won his last game in charge. These sort of decisions meant we were doomed as a club - the Diaz example is another, we moaned when he was appointed because it was obviously a short term, cheap, desperate option (despite the fact Kassam and his acolytes said it wasn't). When it turned out Diaz showed promise, we moaned because Kassam unceremoniously turfed him out and replaced him with a halfwit.

As Pena said, Kassam had no idea how to run a football club (this idea that he was too nice to sack people is laughable really isn't it?). Ty, if you think that Magilton was going to join Oxford as assistant/joint manager with Patterson as opposed to doing the Ipswich job on his then you are deluded. Also, I don't see why these two would have had performed any better than any of the other managers under Kassam. He may have run the club at a small profit but attendances were spiralling (much like they are now).
Matt D
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Post by Matt D »

&quotIsaac&quot wrote:
&quotAncient Colin&quot wrote:There's always a danger of rewriting history and forgetting what the end of the Atkins era was like: from January until 14th March, we played twelve games, won just two, lost five and drew six, scoring just nine goals in that period and failing to score in seven of those games.
How many other clubs sack their manager while they're in the playoff positions? I think we even won his last game in charge.
indeed, albeit the game supports AC's point to some extent too:

http&#58//www&#46rageonline&#46co&#46uk ... 800&#46000

1-0 crosby (pen.)

the run was soul-sapping, but i recall at the time thinking if atkins could just hold us together to limp to the finishing line still in a play-off position, we had an okay chance of going up - probably 1-0 crosby (pen.) in the final...
ty cobb
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Post by ty cobb »

&quotIsaac&quot wrote:
&quotAncient Colin&quot wrote:There's always a danger of rewriting history and forgetting what the end of the Atkins era was like: from January until 14th March, we played twelve games, won just two, lost five and drew six, scoring just nine goals in that period and failing to score in seven of those games.
How many other clubs sack their manager while they're in the playoff positions? I think we even won his last game in charge. These sort of decisions meant we were doomed as a club - the Diaz example is another, we moaned when he was appointed because it was obviously a short term, cheap, desperate option (despite the fact Kassam and his acolytes said it wasn't). When it turned out Diaz showed promise, we moaned because Kassam unceremoniously turfed him out and replaced him with a halfwit.

As Pena said, Kassam had no idea how to run a football club (this idea that he was too nice to sack people is laughable really isn't it?). Ty, if you think that Magilton was going to join Oxford as assistant/joint manager with Patterson as opposed to doing the Ipswich job on his then you are deluded. Also, I don't see why these two would have had performed any better than any of the other managers under Kassam. He may have run the club at a small profit but attendances were spiralling (much like they are now).
At the time Magilton wasn't in line for the Ipswich job was going to come back but with all the uncertainty thought better of it - he was proved right.

He's shown himself to be a good manager this year and I think with his attacking nous and Pattos defensive outlook they would have combined well. His presence in central midfield would also have kept us up that year.
GodalmingYellow
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Post by GodalmingYellow »

There's a lot of history re-writing and ignoring pertinent information on this thread.

Kassam lost interest when fans started criticising him in my view. He was happy taking the glory, but not taking the flak.

Kassam started taking the flak big time when he cut costs to such an extent that it was apparently having a negative effect on the good operation of the club and he was being publicly criticised by his own employees.

We can only look at end results overall both on and off the pitch, in hindsight, and speculate if it was worth spending that money given what was achieved, or vice versa if more might have been achieved with more spending.

The truth lies somewhere between the tales of woe of Kassam and the tales of woe of Merry.

The club has to make itself part of the community to be successful, it has to create goodwill, it has to market itself to its potential audiences and price itself according to the the market and level of entertainment it provides compared to alternatives and affordability andit has to ensure future income by attracting new supporters both in terms of age and social groupings. Then the club shouldn't spend what it doesn't have, except to invest and equally, the club should spend what it does have, subject to contingency, to maximise the use of resources. Then it is simply (haha) about deciding where and how to spend the money.

No owner in my living memory has achieved all of these, but to be successful, it is all of these that have to be achieved. Kassam didn't spend where it was necessary to achieve those things, and Merry has spent way way too much, and in the wrong areas. Neither has got it right.

I don't think there is any mileage in trying to establish which owner is better or worse than the other, they've all got it badly wrong.
Isaac
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Post by Isaac »

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:I don't think there is any mileage in trying to establish which owner is better or worse than the other, they've all got it badly wrong.
This is definitely true, I don't want my criticism of Kassam to imply any sort of credit to Merry and co. I just don't think it's that helpful to start suggesting that Kassam had the right ideas and imply that we might want to go back to that style of ownership.
ty cobb
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Post by ty cobb »

&quotIsaac&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:I don't think there is any mileage in trying to establish which owner is better or worse than the other, they've all got it badly wrong.
This is definitely true, I don't want my criticism of Kassam to imply any sort of credit to Merry and co. I just don't think it's that helpful to start suggesting that Kassam had the right ideas and imply that we might want to go back to that style of ownership.
You may change your mind about that once we're £5 million in debt and one half of the WPL decides he's had enough.
GodalmingYellow
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Post by GodalmingYellow »

&quotty cobb&quot wrote:
&quotIsaac&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:I don't think there is any mileage in trying to establish which owner is better or worse than the other, they've all got it badly wrong.
This is definitely true, I don't want my criticism of Kassam to imply any sort of credit to Merry and co. I just don't think it's that helpful to start suggesting that Kassam had the right ideas and imply that we might want to go back to that style of ownership.
You may change your mind about that once we're £5 million in debt and one half of the WPL decides he's had enough.
I'm with Isaac, I don't want either Kassam or WPL style &quotleadership&quot.

I want someone who wants to use their experience and expertise to develop and improve the club for the community and the fans. Not for an ego trip or opportunity to profit from an adjoining land deal with the club taking 2nd (or lower) priority.
ty cobb
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Post by ty cobb »

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:
&quotty cobb&quot wrote:
&quotIsaac&quot wrote: This is definitely true, I don't want my criticism of Kassam to imply any sort of credit to Merry and co. I just don't think it's that helpful to start suggesting that Kassam had the right ideas and imply that we might want to go back to that style of ownership.
You may change your mind about that once we're £5 million in debt and one half of the WPL decides he's had enough.
I'm with Isaac, I don't want either Kassam or WPL style &quotleadership&quot.

I want someone who wants to use their experience and expertise to develop and improve the club for the community and the fans. Not for an ego trip or opportunity to profit from an adjoining land deal with the club taking 2nd (or lower) priority.
I'd think we'd all rather have that but as you've said that type of owner simply doesn't exist in our history.

But given a choice between someone who will run up lots of debts and someone who won't I'll go with the second option - as I think you would to....?
Isaac
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Post by Isaac »

&quotty cobb&quot wrote: I'd think we'd all rather have that but as you've said that type of owner simply doesn't exist in our history.

But given a choice between someone who will run up lots of debts and someone who won't I'll go with the second option - as I think you would to....?
I think both owners are/were in serious danger of running us to extinction, I think it may well have taken us marginally longer under Kassam but we would have ended up in the conference with him. And like it is now, the stadium would be crippling us, crowds would be falling and there would be no easy route towards promotion.
GodalmingYellow
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Post by GodalmingYellow »

&quotty cobb&quot wrote:
&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:
&quotty cobb&quot wrote: You may change your mind about that once we're £5 million in debt and one half of the WPL decides he's had enough.
I'm with Isaac, I don't want either Kassam or WPL style &quotleadership&quot.

I want someone who wants to use their experience and expertise to develop and improve the club for the community and the fans. Not for an ego trip or opportunity to profit from an adjoining land deal with the club taking 2nd (or lower) priority.
I'd think we'd all rather have that but as you've said that type of owner simply doesn't exist in our history.

But given a choice between someone who will run up lots of debts and someone who won't I'll go with the second option - as I think you would to....?
Given the choice I would prefer neither. They both lead to rack and ruin. Death by electric shock or death by slow strangulation. Neither is good.

Just because we have not in recent times had an owner capable or willing to run the club properly, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.
Snake
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Post by Snake »

“Just because we have not in recent times had an owner capable or willing to run the club properly, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.
GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow »

[quote=&quotSnake&quot]“Just because we have not in recent times had an owner capable or willing to run the club properly, doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.
Snake
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Post by Snake »

In which case Kassam got it half-right, in that once heÔÇÖd secured the planning gains he seeked and got back the investment from the huge risks that heÔÇÖd taken he then tried to run OUFC on an even financial keel.
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