Rage Online

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:That isn't quite the point either, though it is related. The question is whether a better deal would have resulted if negotiations had been allowed to continue to a natural conclusion, rather than slow negotiations followed by a last minute rush, which in my view, WPL did not handle well.

That's quite possible of course. But there's another question, which is: would WPL ever have handled it well? Did they really have the money or potential to do the deal that they should have done, which would have been one that did not detach the club from the stadium, but which detached Kassam from both?

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:That isn't quite the point either, though it is related. The question is whether a better deal would have resulted if negotiations had been allowed to continue to a natural conclusion, rather than slow negotiations followed by a last minute rush, which in my view, WPL did not handle well.

That's quite possible of course. But there's another question, which is: would WPL ever have handled it well? Did they really have the money or potential to do the deal that they should have done, which would have been one that did not detach the club from the stadium, but which detached Kassam from both?

That is a good question.

At the outset, they claimed to have the money. Subsequent events suggest that if they did, they've used it elsewhere since.

Would they ever have got what we might regard as a good or fair deal? I don't know. Kassam is a very tough businessman to deal with, certainly one of the toughest I've ever met. He just does not give ground (no pun intended). I suspect a more likely outcome would have been that WPL would have pulled out of the deal and we would still have Kassam in charge.

In my view WPL panicked, not just because of the boardroom battle, but because in their minds at that time, League football was essential to their proposals succeeding, and they believed we would be relegated under Kassam. As it happened thye made no difference to that aspect, as we all now know to our cost.

I think Peña's point is a very valid question.

The boardroom incident wasn't what pushed Kassam into selling the club so much but it was pushed him over the edge to sell the club WITHOUT the stadium. Something that up until then he'd refused to do. If you remember, as I've said before, on that day he had appointed Patto as manager with a 2 year contract and installed Bill &amp Bren as General Managers. These aren't the actions of somebody believing he is about to sell the club. These were the actions of somebody who had realised (again) that nobody out there had the money or inclination to buy the package deal on offer.

WPL had been in negotiation of sorts for a while up to that point but it was always in the context of club and stadium. They never really had the capability to buy both though and at one point they offered Kassam payment in gemstones to give you an idea of what level they were working at.

Yes things weren't good under Kassam but there was no way that we would have got in to the sort of debt we are in and there was no way that the existance of the club would be threatened which could be a real possibility soon.

&quotMally&quot wrote:If you remember, as I've said before, on that day he had appointed Patto as manager with a 2 year contract and installed Bill &amp Bren as General Managers. These aren't the actions of somebody believing he is about to sell the club.

I don't necessarily see this. If it was operationally necessary and deirable (which it was) then it remains such even if a change of ownership is anticipated. Obviously it partly depends on what's meant by &quotabout to&quot - of course if it's likely to happen next week then that's one thing, but if not, then that's another.

I also don't see this at all:

&quotMally&quot wrote:there was no way that the existence of the club would be threatened

Why? The club's no use to Kassam, if he couldn't offload it for a price he was willing to accept then why would he continue to support it?

I think the current arrangement suits Kassam very well. He hasn't got the club, which he doesn't want. He has got the stadium, which means he receives a large sum in rent and retains the asset should the club cease trading. Of course, at the same time, he'd be perfectly happy to sell the stadium should anybody be prepared to meet his asking price, but he has (as I see it) no incentive to drop that price.

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:

&quotMally&quot wrote:If you remember, as I've said before, on that day he had appointed Patto as manager with a 2 year contract and installed Bill &amp Bren as General Managers. These aren't the actions of somebody believing he is about to sell the club.

I don't necessarily see this. If it was operationally necessary and deirable (which it was) then it remains such even if a change of ownership is anticipated. Obviously it partly depends on what's meant by &quotabout to&quot - of course if it's likely to happen next week then that's one thing, but if not, then that's another.

I also don't see this at all:

&quotMally&quot wrote:there was no way that the existence of the club would be threatened

Why? The club's no use to Kassam, if he couldn't offload it for a price he was willing to accept then why would he continue to support it?

I think the current arrangement suits Kassam very well. He hasn't got the club, which he doesn't want. He has got the stadium, which means he receives a large sum in rent and retains the asset should the club cease trading. Of course, at the same time, he'd be perfectly happy to sell the stadium should anybody be prepared to meet his asking price, but he has (as I see it) no incentive to drop that price.

The problem Kassam does have, is that StadCo makes big losses despite the guaranteed rent. so he has to balance current actual losses against potential future gains.

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:The problem Kassam does have, is that StadCo makes big losses despite the guaranteed rent. so he has to balance current actual losses against potential future gains.

Errr.... do we really want to buy this stadium then?

There is a value to Kassam in the club being successful.

The Ozone as a whole relies on the businesses being successful and complimentary, the more people who go to games and also use the Bowlplex, Restaurants, Kids playzone, cinema etc, the better the rents FK will achieve for those businesses.

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:

&quotPeña Oxford United&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:That isn't quite the point either, though it is related. The question is whether a better deal would have resulted if negotiations had been allowed to continue to a natural conclusion, rather than slow negotiations followed by a last minute rush, which in my view, WPL did not handle well.

That's quite possible of course. But there's another question, which is: would WPL ever have handled it well? Did they really have the money or potential to do the deal that they should have done, which would have been one that did not detach the club from the stadium, but which detached Kassam from both?

That is a good question.

At the outset, they claimed to have the money. Subsequent events suggest that if they did, they've used it elsewhere since.

Would they ever have got what we might regard as a good or fair deal? I don't know. Kassam is a very tough businessman to deal with, certainly one of the toughest I've ever met. He just does not give ground (no pun intended). I suspect a more likely outcome would have been that WPL would have pulled out of the deal and we would still have Kassam in charge.

In my view WPL panicked, not just because of the boardroom battle, but because in their minds at that time, League football was essential to their proposals succeeding, and they believed we would be relegated under Kassam. As it happened thye made no difference to that aspect, as we all now know to our cost.

It is worth remembering in all this 'what forced the deal through' argument that WPL wanted in before Transfer Deadline to enable Jim to bring in players to save us from non-league football.

We now know that didn't work but that was the aim so I would imagine they were trying to force it through prior to the 'storming' incident.

&quotA-Ro&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:The problem Kassam does have, is that StadCo makes big losses despite the guaranteed rent. so he has to balance current actual losses against potential future gains.

Errr.... do we really want to buy this stadium then?

For some strange reason FK seems unable to run the StadCo profitably.

There is no doubt the facilities are poorly marketed and underused and there is a belief that run properly this could be a profitable enterprise.

The problem is the ECLS have not demonstrated to date that they have the skills to run such a business.

&quotA-Ro&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:The problem Kassam does have, is that StadCo makes big losses despite the guaranteed rent. so he has to balance current actual losses against potential future gains.

Errr.... do we really want to buy this stadium then?

Depends on the price.

£13m - no way
£9m - OK

&quotscooter&quot wrote:There is a value to Kassam in the club being successful.

The Ozone as a whole relies on the businesses being successful and complimentary, the more people who go to games and also use the Bowlplex, Restaurants, Kids playzone, cinema etc, the better the rents FK will achieve for those businesses.

Would those businesses be more or less successful with a large increase in housing and influx of greater population?

&quotscooter&quot wrote:

&quotA-Ro&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:The problem Kassam does have, is that StadCo makes big losses despite the guaranteed rent. so he has to balance current actual losses against potential future gains.

Errr.... do we really want to buy this stadium then?

For some strange reason FK seems unable to run the StadCo profitably.

There is no doubt the facilities are poorly marketed and underused and there is a belief that run properly this could be a profitable enterprise.

The problem is the ECLS have not demonstrated to date that they have the skills to run such a business.

Kassam did a lot of damage to the goodwill of the business with the way it was run and how he ran OUFC in my view. Change the stadium and Conference name and put it under new owners, market it properly, use sensible tarrifs for the location, re-create goodwill and it could be made quite profitable.

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:

&quotscooter&quot wrote:There is a value to Kassam in the club being successful.

The Ozone as a whole relies on the businesses being successful and complimentary, the more people who go to games and also use the Bowlplex, Restaurants, Kids playzone, cinema etc, the better the rents FK will achieve for those businesses.

Would those businesses be more or less successful with a large increase in housing and influx of greater population?

Yes.

But I am still not convinced that the redevelopment of the ground for housing would be the most viable solution for FK. Commercial uses may well generate a higher land value.

The comment by Mally that WPL (principally NM) offered FK
gemstones in consideration for buying OUFC is an incredible
revelation but is most probably true knowing this club and the individuals
involved.

If Merry did indeed offer gems (diamonds/emeralds?) then I am
even more worried about Merry then I ever have been !

&quotscooter&quot wrote:

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:

&quotscooter&quot wrote:There is a value to Kassam in the club being successful.

The Ozone as a whole relies on the businesses being successful and complimentary, the more people who go to games and also use the Bowlplex, Restaurants, Kids playzone, cinema etc, the better the rents FK will achieve for those businesses.

Would those businesses be more or less successful with a large increase in housing and influx of greater population?

Yes.

But I am still not convinced that the redevelopment of the ground for housing would be the most viable solution for FK. Commercial uses may well generate a higher land value.

Well then it just becomes a comparison of housing || effect on Ozone versus commercial || effect on Ozone. Both would be significantly more profitable than OUFC || status quo.