The U's v Cheltenham Town
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
Or alternatively, patience may lead to an outcome that is not worth thinking about.
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
As ever with these type of things, the plea for 'patience' is an attempt to set up a false dichotomy: either you are patient or inpatient; you 'believe' or you don't; your glass is half-full or half-empty. The reality, of course, is much murkier and more complex.
On my part I haven't 'run out of patience' because it is not necessarily a finite resource. The odd wonder goal from a local lad will do wonders for my patience, belief, and liquid measurement perception. Overall though, I'm intermittently overwhelmed by a sense of malaise, disinterest and loathing, while still, always, hoping things can get better.
As Snake says, put things right off the pitch and the rest should follow in time. I think many fans' (the majority, perhaps) willingness to be taken in by the new owners and their promises has transferred itself into a 'patient' approach to the footballing side of things, especially the manager, since he seems such an integral part of the new set-up. (For evidence for this look not to the reaction to the last match, but the general shrugging of the shoulders following the dreadful performances at Tranmere and Hartlepool, or the sense that simply not being relegated this season will count as some kind of progress.
In that sense, if we do go down, or the club goes bust, the fans can only look to themselves. If you go along with things long enough without asking the right questions until you get satisfactory answers, then you're tacitly complicit in whatever follows.
Now, things could improve. But I fail to see how, but maybe I'm too stupid to see it. Whatever many of our fans have been taking, please let me know where I can pick some up.
On my part I haven't 'run out of patience' because it is not necessarily a finite resource. The odd wonder goal from a local lad will do wonders for my patience, belief, and liquid measurement perception. Overall though, I'm intermittently overwhelmed by a sense of malaise, disinterest and loathing, while still, always, hoping things can get better.
As Snake says, put things right off the pitch and the rest should follow in time. I think many fans' (the majority, perhaps) willingness to be taken in by the new owners and their promises has transferred itself into a 'patient' approach to the footballing side of things, especially the manager, since he seems such an integral part of the new set-up. (For evidence for this look not to the reaction to the last match, but the general shrugging of the shoulders following the dreadful performances at Tranmere and Hartlepool, or the sense that simply not being relegated this season will count as some kind of progress.
In that sense, if we do go down, or the club goes bust, the fans can only look to themselves. If you go along with things long enough without asking the right questions until you get satisfactory answers, then you're tacitly complicit in whatever follows.Now, things could improve. But I fail to see how, but maybe I'm too stupid to see it. Whatever many of our fans have been taking, please let me know where I can pick some up.
Last edited by tomoufc on Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. "
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
MApp has been manager at four difference clubs, for a total of 109 games, equivalent to just short of two and a half seasons. His WDL record adds up to 117 points, which is 1.1 point per game, or 49 points for a whole season. An average of relegation.
How much patience can be expected with such a poor and unproven track record?
How much patience can be expected with such a poor and unproven track record?
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
Given how long we've been stuck at this awful level (or below) I would argue the fans have been very patient. Many have now lost patience and have voted with their feet.
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Brahma Bull
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Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
I agree with you Ty - I didn't really appreciate the "you need to show some patience" line. Patience has been given in spades this season. My comment had been a little facetious.ty cobb wrote:Given how long we've been stuck at this awful level (or below) I would argue the fans have been very patient. Many have now lost patience and have voted with their feet.
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GodalmingYellow
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Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
I like the reference to Applecrumble in Baboo's match report - so fitting.
That second half performance was the worst from the U's in years. Appleton isn't making Oxford better, he's making us worse. Much worse.
I can honestly say that I believe if Wilder had been given the budget that Appleton has had, we would be very close to the top of the table now.
TippyTAppleton's philosophy of the opposition can't score if they don't have the ball only works if our side are capable of retaining the ball for long periods, especially when closed down quickly or man to man marked. We are not capable of that ball retention, because these are League 2 players. If they were so capable, they would be playing further up the pyramid. Even if you could teach an unqualified road sweeper (no disrespect intended) to practice brain surgery, it would probably take a very long time. Far too long. And even then, brain surgery is notoriously difficult to achieve desired outcomes.
The choice is a stark one. Either Appleton changes his approach and philosophy, or he will lose the crowd (if that has not already happened) and inevitably his job and any remnants of reputation he might have in coaching circles.
The play was akin to watching a Sunday morning friendly between 2 under 11's sides.
The formation was bizarre and simply did not work. Ruffels and Whing were both played way too close to the back line, and Burns was played too close to the front line. With THD and Meades both hugging the touchlines, this left a chasm in midfield, which Cheltenham exploited time and again. You can't play 5-3-2 with wing backs when 2 of the 3 play as extra defenders and 1 of the 3 plays as an extra striker.
Looking at individual performances:
Clarke has arguably his worst ever game for OUFC. He looked shaky on crosses, fumbled the ball frequently and let in two goals that he should not have done, albeit that the first one was a pin point hard shot on the turn that should not even have got past the defender in the first place.
I've seen Meades several times now, and he isn't good enough, either on the left or right side of defence, or in midfield. He lacks a lot of confidence, and despite playing as a wing back, I don't think he took on a player down the line once. Defensively, similar to Riley, he had often pushed on too far and got caught out at the back. This latter point might well also be down to the team set up with no one covering at the back.
I'm not yet convinced by Dunkley. He's good in the air, but awkward and clumsy on the ground, partly because he is so right footed and often has to change position so he can play the ball with his right foot. He is also a bit on the slow side, particularly on the turn. Lack of pace is common in central defenders, but it is exposed more with this Tippy Tappy football.
As others have said, Mullins and Wright are put under immediate pressure by the passing out from the back on every occasion. The opposition see this and just close them down very quickly. With the lack of movement in midfield, the ball either ends up back with Clarke, or with the opposition. And for the Wright detractors, don't forget that he cleared off the line when Clarke had been rounded.
There has to be much more flexibility in the style of play than this. Also the philosophy of taking a controlling touch before passing results in taking too long to move the ball, and so allows the opposition to regroup quickly or close down quickly. These are pro footballers and the management have to allow them the freedom to make decisions in playing the ball on behalf of the team.
THD didn't have his best game either. I think he is better as an overlapping full back than a wing back.
Whing was poor. Very poor. And he's not been great for a while. He looked knackered after 30 minutes. Time for a rest methinks.
Ruffels looked decent early on and I even commented to friends how good it was to see him back. But again after half an hour, he drifted out of the game and looked a shadow of the player who started the match. He needs space to play his game. Space that Cheltenham didn't give him because of the invitation to close down that Appleton's system gave them.
Burns had his moments, including the goal and some nice close control movement. But too often he chose to shoot when there were better options. A clue Mr Burns, players are obstacles and the ball does not move through them, it has to go around them.
Sir Daniel Hylton. Where would our season be without him? I don't even want to think about it. By a distance our best player on Saturday and for most of the season.
Roberts had one of those games that all younger players have to go through. Frustration about lack of ball. It's not really down to Roberts, but the system which does not get the ball into dangerous positions quickly enough.
Campbell tried hard, but was never really in the game. But he does look physically strong. Whether he has the strong mentality to play at this level is yet to be shown, but very early days obviously.
Rose improved things in midfield, but again the system meant he was played too deep when he is more effective supplying the front players.
O'Dowda really had little effect on the game.
I'm rapidly losing patience with Tippy Tapppleton. I want it to work, but can see that it won't work without either him changing or him being changed. His post match interviews are not helping either. He does very little to woo the supporters, and some might say he is antagonistic. 2 weeks ago he said he doesn't care about supporters booing and it makes no difference to him. This week he has effecticely said like it or lump it as he ain't changing it. This is not good.
Oxford fans have been generally pretty patient with our managers for a long time, bar the odd one or two idiots. This season can't be allowed to continue in the same vein that it has done.
That second half performance was the worst from the U's in years. Appleton isn't making Oxford better, he's making us worse. Much worse.
I can honestly say that I believe if Wilder had been given the budget that Appleton has had, we would be very close to the top of the table now.
TippyTAppleton's philosophy of the opposition can't score if they don't have the ball only works if our side are capable of retaining the ball for long periods, especially when closed down quickly or man to man marked. We are not capable of that ball retention, because these are League 2 players. If they were so capable, they would be playing further up the pyramid. Even if you could teach an unqualified road sweeper (no disrespect intended) to practice brain surgery, it would probably take a very long time. Far too long. And even then, brain surgery is notoriously difficult to achieve desired outcomes.
The choice is a stark one. Either Appleton changes his approach and philosophy, or he will lose the crowd (if that has not already happened) and inevitably his job and any remnants of reputation he might have in coaching circles.
The play was akin to watching a Sunday morning friendly between 2 under 11's sides.
The formation was bizarre and simply did not work. Ruffels and Whing were both played way too close to the back line, and Burns was played too close to the front line. With THD and Meades both hugging the touchlines, this left a chasm in midfield, which Cheltenham exploited time and again. You can't play 5-3-2 with wing backs when 2 of the 3 play as extra defenders and 1 of the 3 plays as an extra striker.
Looking at individual performances:
Clarke has arguably his worst ever game for OUFC. He looked shaky on crosses, fumbled the ball frequently and let in two goals that he should not have done, albeit that the first one was a pin point hard shot on the turn that should not even have got past the defender in the first place.
I've seen Meades several times now, and he isn't good enough, either on the left or right side of defence, or in midfield. He lacks a lot of confidence, and despite playing as a wing back, I don't think he took on a player down the line once. Defensively, similar to Riley, he had often pushed on too far and got caught out at the back. This latter point might well also be down to the team set up with no one covering at the back.
I'm not yet convinced by Dunkley. He's good in the air, but awkward and clumsy on the ground, partly because he is so right footed and often has to change position so he can play the ball with his right foot. He is also a bit on the slow side, particularly on the turn. Lack of pace is common in central defenders, but it is exposed more with this Tippy Tappy football.
As others have said, Mullins and Wright are put under immediate pressure by the passing out from the back on every occasion. The opposition see this and just close them down very quickly. With the lack of movement in midfield, the ball either ends up back with Clarke, or with the opposition. And for the Wright detractors, don't forget that he cleared off the line when Clarke had been rounded.
There has to be much more flexibility in the style of play than this. Also the philosophy of taking a controlling touch before passing results in taking too long to move the ball, and so allows the opposition to regroup quickly or close down quickly. These are pro footballers and the management have to allow them the freedom to make decisions in playing the ball on behalf of the team.
THD didn't have his best game either. I think he is better as an overlapping full back than a wing back.
Whing was poor. Very poor. And he's not been great for a while. He looked knackered after 30 minutes. Time for a rest methinks.
Ruffels looked decent early on and I even commented to friends how good it was to see him back. But again after half an hour, he drifted out of the game and looked a shadow of the player who started the match. He needs space to play his game. Space that Cheltenham didn't give him because of the invitation to close down that Appleton's system gave them.
Burns had his moments, including the goal and some nice close control movement. But too often he chose to shoot when there were better options. A clue Mr Burns, players are obstacles and the ball does not move through them, it has to go around them.
Sir Daniel Hylton. Where would our season be without him? I don't even want to think about it. By a distance our best player on Saturday and for most of the season.
Roberts had one of those games that all younger players have to go through. Frustration about lack of ball. It's not really down to Roberts, but the system which does not get the ball into dangerous positions quickly enough.
Campbell tried hard, but was never really in the game. But he does look physically strong. Whether he has the strong mentality to play at this level is yet to be shown, but very early days obviously.
Rose improved things in midfield, but again the system meant he was played too deep when he is more effective supplying the front players.
O'Dowda really had little effect on the game.
I'm rapidly losing patience with Tippy Tapppleton. I want it to work, but can see that it won't work without either him changing or him being changed. His post match interviews are not helping either. He does very little to woo the supporters, and some might say he is antagonistic. 2 weeks ago he said he doesn't care about supporters booing and it makes no difference to him. This week he has effecticely said like it or lump it as he ain't changing it. This is not good.
Oxford fans have been generally pretty patient with our managers for a long time, bar the odd one or two idiots. This season can't be allowed to continue in the same vein that it has done.
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
Admittedly I've only seen 2 games this season, Carlisle away and the boxing day shambles, but this season has relegation written all over it. Boxing Day and Appleton's post match interview made me despair - this whole plan B is plan A nonsense was shown up when we were still failing to play passing football in the last 10 minutes against a side who had not been remotely troubled by it all game. If ever there was a time to send a centre back up front and start hopefully punting it at him and try and cause a bit of panic, this was it. But no, it was more like a training session.
His post match interview was an insult too, saying the defeat was down to them playing better than us, well yes, but why? Then saying that being booed by 8000 wasn't like being booed by 80000 - I doubt he'll ever get to find out, but along with saying the club hasn't been higher than this division for 10 years, this seemed to me to be making out we're a small club (which we may be, but the fans pay for tickets the same as big clubs), who should just get used to this division and pitiless home defeats.
I doubt the owners will sack him as he's their mate, but his record on signings is awful this season too, the only 2 who have stayed in the team are the loanee fullbacks. If I were the owners I'd be nervous of letting him spend again.
His post match interview was an insult too, saying the defeat was down to them playing better than us, well yes, but why? Then saying that being booed by 8000 wasn't like being booed by 80000 - I doubt he'll ever get to find out, but along with saying the club hasn't been higher than this division for 10 years, this seemed to me to be making out we're a small club (which we may be, but the fans pay for tickets the same as big clubs), who should just get used to this division and pitiless home defeats.
I doubt the owners will sack him as he's their mate, but his record on signings is awful this season too, the only 2 who have stayed in the team are the loanee fullbacks. If I were the owners I'd be nervous of letting him spend again.
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Eric Pollard
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Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
This forum is misery personified. Saturday was the 'worst game in years'? Gee, people have short memories.
I'm taking a break from this. See you soon
I'm taking a break from this. See you soon
Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
Even if there's a bit of hyperbole involved, wouldn't you expect people to be miserable after *that*?
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amershamwrighty
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Re: The U's v Cheltenham Town
Yes. I would. I tolerate it because I always have. But I am not enjoying it one little bit.