How Do We Stop The Rot?

[Kernow Yellow]

Can we please not use this thread to rehash exactly the same arguments about Wilder that we had after the last match? PLEASE?

As to Waddock, of course we can't properly judge him on what happens this season. But the team he inherited were 6th in the league, and getting a point a game even during Mickey Lewis' disastrous interregnum. Zero points, and more to the point zero goals, from his first three matches don't exactly suggest he's a great motivator or tactician, even if he will eventually mould his own team into an attacking tour de force.

[ty cobb]

We were not a good team? Must have been a hell of a run of luck to see us top the division and take Championship Charlton to a replay in the third round of the cup. And that record breaking away run, yep only an average team would have achieved that. A few points better off? Given that he's taken 21 points since joining Northampton (we've taken 15 in that time) I would suggest we'd be more than a few points better off, but even if only a few at least we'd still be in the bloody play offs. Would finishing in the play offs be a good season for you? As you were one of the moaners when we were top I would suggest you'd be complaining that we'd thrown away a top three spot.

We have a good team and a pretty good squad as well, we're just not getting the best out of them anymore. A team with Beano, Kitson, Rigg, Rose and Wroe on the bench has plenty of options, just a shame Waddock hasn't worked out what the best one is yet.

Remember what happened when Atkins left? We replaced those boring players like Andy Crosby with much more exciting ones like Leo Roget, what happened? Rix lasted half a season and the next one we got relegated. Given our current form and sense of absolute malaise surrounding the club I would not be surprised if that happened again.

In the last 3 games the football has been worse, the players attitude worse and we are now outside the play offs. Still always next season eh?

The fact that teams like York, Daggers and Fleetwood look so much better than us on and off the field is a very poor reflection on IL running of this club, we were top of the league and we stuffed it up, as someone on Radio Oxford said IL said Wilder was doing a fantastic job at Christmas and said talks on a new contract would begin soon, as with the search for the new manager he dithered too long and this has resulted in the relegation form we are suffering now.

[YF Dan]

Jeez, two people who have often accused me of kneejerk reactions to managers, have both written off the new man after two matches and one freak own goal.

Admittedly one of the two folk would be unhappy if the love child of Arthur Turner, Jim Smith mk 1, Sir Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola had the nerve to even think about parking his car in the same carpark as the Messiah, let alone replace him in the hotseat. But still.

Given our current form and sense of absolute malaise surrounding the club I would not be surprised if that happened again.

Well, let's snap out of the malaise, and move on. Your man walked out on us. He's gone. Either follow him to Northampton, or cheer up and stick with us and help the club move on. I'd rather you do the latter...you're a good man and we need all the support we can get.

As to Waddock, of course we can't properly judge him on what happens this season. But the team he inherited were 6th in the league, and getting a point a game even during Mickey Lewis' disastrous interregnum. Zero points, and more to the point zero goals, from his first three matches don't exactly suggest he's a great motivator or tactician,

So in other words, let's not judge him now....well, at least not for another sentence.

As for the Wilder issue, it is hard to avoid it. This is his team. His actions have defined the season...well, in fact, his actions good and bad have defined the whole club for the past 4-5 years. We need to move on, yes, so let's give the new man a bit of space.

Yes, it seems our wheels are completely off, but as a club under Wilder we had a history of this happening. So let's not write off the new man because it looks like it's happened again. He's inherited a squad of Wilder's players, some of whom are totally unfit, some unfit for purpose, some are stale, some have clearly written the season off and are thinking about new challenges next year...they've also had it been made clear to them by their previous manager that he had no faith in them to go up. That's quite a blow to anyone's confidence.

Also in defence of Waddock, he's got few options.

Up front: Where's our pace, where's the outlet? Is Kitson really what we needed this season, let alone for TWO years? Was Smalley really worth a contract extension? Rigg has had a poor season, Potter's injured but was out of form anyway. I can see the logic of playing Williams in a front three if only to use his pace to stretch things, but I'd agree it failed. He looks like he's bored of trying to do it all by himself.

Midfield: Who signed this lot: Rose, Wroe, Asa Hall(!!), Davies? Everyone likes good old Whingy but that's because he doesn't shirk a tackle, but the man couldn't pass wind. Ruffels was ok in the first half, and poor in the second...at least he looked willing for the ball.

Defence: Our best defender Mullins is out, Wright has been awful since his injury. Raynes struggles against anyone with a hint of pace. I will just about see an argument for Hunt over Batt but oh for Liam Davis right now.

This is a squad with issues, the idea it would have carried on for a promotion charge is fanciful.

----

Allow me to finish on a positive note. I was chatting to a couple of players in the bar after the match. Both suggested being out of the play offs might help as now "they had to go for it", whereas before as one put it, "we didn't know whether to stick or twist".

A win will change everything, but I admit, a win does seem a long way off at the moment.

[Radley Rambler]

From YF Dan's post - Allow me to finish on a positive note. I was chatting to a couple of players in the bar after the match. Both suggested being out of the play offs might help as now "they had to go for it", whereas before as one put it, "we didn't know whether to stick or twist".

That is really worrying - were we really going out to not lose games? 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and let's face it, even the latter have been hard to come by. I really cannot understand the mentality (hard away games aside) of going out not to lose. The points differential just doesn't justify that policy let alone the effect it has on the fans' enjoyment.

Still at least we'll now see what OUFC 'going for it' really means on the pitch.....

[amershamwrighty]

Excellent post, YF Dan.

[Kernow Yellow]

As to Waddock, of course we can't properly judge him on what happens this season. But the team he inherited were 6th in the league, and getting a point a game even during Mickey Lewis' disastrous interregnum. Zero points, and more to the point zero goals, from his first three matches don't exactly suggest he's a great motivator or tactician,

So in other words, let's not judge him now....well, at least not for another sentence.

Not at all. I mean we can't judge his long-term potential impact at the club, of course. We've employed him and are stuck with him for a while at least - which may turn out to be a very good thing.

But we can judge what we are achieving on the pitch at the moment, and it makes for horrifying viewing. Gary Waddock was employed to help us achieve promotion this season - that was made clear by him and by Lenegan on his appointment. The fact that he may well not have been given enough time to do this is of course not his fault. But the Lenegan-bashing (like the bi-polar Wilder argument that Ty and you insist on hijacking every topic with at the moment) is for a different thread really. To quote somebody or other, we move on. But the idea (as you and others seem to be suggesting) that we should all write off this season because Waddock has inherited a shower of shit who are simply not capable of winning football matches is insulting to the players and to us as fans. Because it's so palpably untrue.

As for the rest of your post, especially the stuff aimed at Ty (follow your messiah to Northampton etc), it is so far beneath you it's embarrassing. I couldn't agree less with Amershamwrighty's appraisal of it. Sorry.

[amershamwrighty]

Ah well. It is a discussion forum, after all. Roll on the 2014/15 fixtures and pre-season optimism. Luton and Stevenage, anyone ?

[Kernow Yellow]

Roll on Plymouth and York, I say! Whatever's gone before, these really will be the defining moments of our season. And I'll be judging Us by what happens in them...

[ty cobb]

Sorry KY it's very hard to compare how Waddock is doing without some reference to the past, if he had taken over a bottom half team I could understand how poorly he was doing, he took over a team who had been in the play offs or higher all season and so I expected better than the dross served up in the last three games.

Yes Wilder is gone and he ain't coming back but IL is still here and I think he has stuffed our season up.

So how to stop the rot? Beano and Connolly up top, Kitson in behind, Williams and Rigg wide with Rose sitting in the middle. Back four picks itself, and we just go for it none of this sitting back get the ball up top and play some football in the oppositions half.

We may get stuffed but at least we'll die trying. Problem is I don't think Waddock knows what the hell to do which really annoys me given he was a front runner he should have been watching us every chance he had, the fact he's still working the players out makes me wonder when did he actually realise he was in with a shout for this job??

[GodalmingYellow]

If Wilder had stayed (willingly, enthusiastically, and as agreed with Lenagan), I would be confident that we would have made the play offs but not the auto promotion places, and Wilder would almost certainly have been given another contract.

We'll never know.

What we do know is that for some bizarre reason, Smalley is doing something at the training ground that persuades managers to keep picking him, even though he doesn't produce it on match days. I don't know what it is but I wish the managers would see through it.

And for some reason, our players' training ground actions seem to persuade managers to keep picking players out of position and in unfamiliar set ups. I wish this would stop as well.

It is much to early to be casting aspersions on Waddock at this stage Ty. You can't on the one hand complain that fans were too quick to disregard Wilder after 5 years in charge and then have a go at the replacement manager after just 5 minutes in the job.

Whatever happens this season will not be Waddock's fault.

A large part of any blame for failure (if it occurs) this season will lie with Lenagan for effectively giving Waddock insufficient time to do the job he might have been able to do.

[Myles Francis]

Roll on Plymouth and York, I say! Whatever's gone before, these really will be the defining moments of our season. And I'll be judging Us by what happens in them...

Hear, hear.

[YF Dan]

"Either follow him to Northampton, or cheer up and stick with us and help the club move on. I'd rather you do the latter...you're a good man and we need all the support we can get."

KY (and Ty Cobb, if you were offended too). If the first sentence sounds harsher than it was meant to, please note the words and the tone of the second. I know you are a loyal and true supporter of our club, and was not for a minute suggesting you would go to follow Northampton...but you know that anyway. Apologies if you were offended, Ty. And KY of course...

I think Ty and I quite enjoy our sparring over Wilder matters...and now at last we have agreement: neither of us think that removing Wilder from the debate is particularly possible because -one way or the other - this season has turned out to be all about him and his departure.

If I might add one more question to the debate: do you think Wilder would have signed a new contract at Christmas anyway? My instinct is, I think he would have gone for the new challenge anyway. I'd imagine he was frustrated by the restraints put on him by IL at the end of last season.

[ty cobb]

You don't seem too happy with GW given the comments in you post GY. I'll judge our new manager on the results he gets, so far it's 3 losses no goals scored and 6 against. Worst start by a manager in our history?

YF Dan we've been sparring for a while since I believe you were fed up with him even as we were getting out of that poxy league. I do think he would have signed a new contract actually given where the team were and the chance of a promotion being on the CV. Let's face it he must have been desperate to leave to accept a job at the worst club in the division over us, I do wonder what happened between him and IL for him to get so narked off.

[GodalmingYellow]

You don't seem too happy with GW given the comments in you post GY. I'll judge our new manager on the results he gets, so far it's 3 losses no goals scored and 6 against. Worst start by a manager in our history?

YF Dan we've been sparring for a while since I believe you were fed up with him even as we were getting out of that poxy league. I do think he would have signed a new contract actually given where the team were and the chance of a promotion being on the CV. Let's face it he must have been desperate to leave to accept a job at the worst club in the division over us, I do wonder what happened between him and IL for him to get so narked off.

Not sure how you get to that first line conclusion given that I wrote whatever happens this season it will not be Waddock's fault, and because I wrote you shouldn't be judging him after 5 minutes. You sure you're not mixing me up with someone else?

I don't like the results so far, or the team selections, or the style or anything, but then again I doubt any Oxford supporter does at present. But that can never be a reflection of Waddock who has only just arrived and probably barely even knows all the players' names yet.

[Isaac]

To get back to the game itself, it was a classic "low confidence" performance - we had a decent first twenty minutes but all confidence disappeared after the first goal went in.

As for Waddock - I know we shouldn't judge too quickly, but from what I could tell (and it wasn't obvious) we were playing 4-4-2, but with a square midfield with Williams and Davies in front of Ruffels and Whing. It meant we had no width, other than our baldy full backs. It's been mentioned that the club got analysis saying that clubs with defensive full backs tend to do quite well in league 2, so that's how we ended up with Newey and Hunt. The formation selected needed the full backs to be fairly attacking (it would have suited Davies/Batt last season more I think). So what happened - did the club/coaching staff not tell Waddock that Newey/Hunt were defensive? If they did, was it ignored by Waddock?

Secondly the substitutions - he never changed the shape of the side but instead just swapped the forwards around. The forwards weren't the problem, it was getting the ball anywhere near them that was proving so difficult.

I bought a couple of neutral friends (well, semi-neutral, one was a southend fan) and they said it was quite an entertaining game but then they might have been enjoying my increasingly miserable mood. They agreed that it was a lack of confidence, wanting too long on the ball being the main criticism.

As others have said our only choice is to go for it - just attack from the start and try and get a goal to get confidence going again. You never know, but it would take a massive turn around from here. Such a missed opportunity this season, largely to do with uncertainty from IL in my opinion, both over Wilder and his 1 year contract and then in taking so long to pick the next manager.