A game of two very poor teams and two very shaky defences.
As Steve Hanks said to me after about 5 minutes, this game could easily end up 6-6, such was the poor play of both midfields and defences.
Will Antwi, the Wimbledon #29 centre back, was probably the worst professional centre back I have ever seen at any level.
As Chris has said, the line up was clearly supposed to be 4-4-2 with Rigg and Potter playing wide, but Potter rarely ventured anywhere near the midfield so it effectively became a lop-sided 4-3-3. But at least Wilder appears to have listened - if only he had chosen Smalley and Constable up front, we might have worked the appalling Wimbledon back line a lot more.
At any level of football, if you persistently give the ball away, you will be under pressure too often and will lose matches. Apart from technical skill and fitness, this is the basic reason why higher level teams beat lower level teams. Both sides last night were seemingly delighted to present the ball to their opponents on a regular basis and the game became a contest of who could make the most mistakes. Numerous inaccurate passes of both long and short range gifting the ball every few seconds. It was quite comical at times. Well you have to laugh, otherwise you would cry.
What I did see change last night though was the work ethic of some (but not all) players. Some of the midfield and strikers worked hard all the match to chase the ball down to force mistakes. From this I exclude Potter and Craddock, both of whom seemed like thy would rather be somewhere else. But the work rate of the others is a foundation to build on.
Once again the defence were under regular pressure, and I don't care how many times I say it, but if you put any defence under constant pressure, they will make mistakes. That isn't a fault of the defenders, it is a fault of the team, and it's just that defensive mistakes tend to lead to goals against, and so get highlighted far more than mistakes of the strikers missing easy chances, which has exactly the same effect on the outcome of the game. However, that view does become a little blighted when defences have ample chances to clear the ball and fail to do so, or when they give away free kicks along the edge of the area, or when they try to be fancy dan dribbling around strikers too close to goal. Defenders first job is get the ball from danger.
I must admit to being concerned about our goalkeeping situation. Wayne Brown has been a goalkeeping coach for Clarkey for a few months now, and since Hodgy left, Clarke's confidence and performances have dropped. Coincidence? Don't think so. When you add into that Wayne Brown's awful performances, and last night he was awful, the mists part and it becomes clearer to me that Wayne Brown needs to depart and we need a proper goalkeeping coach. Brown did nothing to command the 6 yard box, let alone the penalty area. Several goalmouth scrambles saw him get nowhere near the ball. I don't remember him catching a single cross all night. And he is supposed to be coaching Clarkey. The change to Clarke made a clear difference to the defensive set up and suddenly we looked much more solid.
The addition of Heslop did very little to the game in my view. He had maybe one or two little surging runs but little beyond that. The problem with the midfield as I have already alluded to was the poor passing.
Raynes injury is a concern as we are now running out of centre backs. I wonder if any of our multiple strikers can play at the back. I hope they don't rush Whingy back too quickly and I hope Raynes injury is only a tweak rather than a tear.
Onto the strikers and wide men. Smalley had a reasonable game, but missed several straightforward opportunities. We can't afford that. He doesn't take enough risks. Craddock remains lazy in my view. Potter went missing for large parts of the game. Rigg had a good game and was MoM by a distance.
So the player budget is up to the wage cap. We can't spend more on players even if we wanted to. The money has been frittered away on a squad that is too small to cope with injuries and which is heavily biased on strikers. Gone is the argument that Wilder hasn't been given sufficient resources because we aren't spending enough on players. We have the 4th highest attendances in the division, and of the 3 above us, Bradford's attendances are purely because of their special very cheap ticket deals which massively reduce their income and playing budget. So we have a very competitive budget with perhaps 3 or 4 teams in the same league as us financially. There are no valid excuses for poor performances and we lie in 16th in the division having scraped a win, at home, against a shockingly poor team who risk relegation.
I remain of the view that Wilder needs to depart, along with Melville, Brown, and Lewis, and I fear for the result on Saturday against a very strong Gillingham. If we get beaten heavily at home the attendances will continue to drop. Just 4,900 home fans last night of which 4000 are season ticket holders counted automatically in the attendance. The real attendance was more like 4,000 with just 900 or so buying tickets for this match. It isn't looking good and Lenagan may well live to rue his decision on Wilder.
Wombling free
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JoeyBeauchamp
- Dashing young thing
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Re: Wombling free
What concerns me (or rather one of the many things that concern me) is that CW doesn't seem to know his best team. Keeper, left-back, centre-mid, centre-forward, wide men - all of these have been chopped and changed with far too much regularity. Of course injuries have played a part, but particularly up front his selection policy seems very haphazard.
I have said before that i believe Beano should be given a run of six games to give him a chance of rediscovering his form. Smalley works hard but does f-all else - how bad was his header last night? In a 4-4-2, i can't see who else could play alongside him but I'd probably plump for Craddock based on what he can do (but isn't bothering to do at the moment). Otherwise Rigg and Potter could play as a three.
Left back - I assume the chopping and changing has been due to Davis' injury, but Capaldi started the season well and looks solid there. He is not a midfielder, but he is better than O'Brien who puts a shift in but is no more than decent.
Midfield I guess will become clearer when Leven is fully fit, but the continuing section of Heslop - not good enough - is a worry.
I think CW was right to drop Clarke, and hopefully those two games will remind him he cannot be so complacent, but what is very clear is that we need someone better and fitter then Brown on the bench.
I have said before that i believe Beano should be given a run of six games to give him a chance of rediscovering his form. Smalley works hard but does f-all else - how bad was his header last night? In a 4-4-2, i can't see who else could play alongside him but I'd probably plump for Craddock based on what he can do (but isn't bothering to do at the moment). Otherwise Rigg and Potter could play as a three.
Left back - I assume the chopping and changing has been due to Davis' injury, but Capaldi started the season well and looks solid there. He is not a midfielder, but he is better than O'Brien who puts a shift in but is no more than decent.
Midfield I guess will become clearer when Leven is fully fit, but the continuing section of Heslop - not good enough - is a worry.
I think CW was right to drop Clarke, and hopefully those two games will remind him he cannot be so complacent, but what is very clear is that we need someone better and fitter then Brown on the bench.
Re: Wombling free
Can I ask, politely why ?"JoeyBeauchamp" wrote: I have said before that i believe Beano should be given a run of six games to give him a chance of rediscovering his form.
He's bagged two goals this calendar year and quite honestly league football
looks beyond him.
Re: Wombling free
I can think of 200k reasons why we should give Beano every chance to regain his form.
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Kernow Yellow
- Grumpy old git
- Posts: 3076
- Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 5:16 pm
Re: Wombling free
I said at the start of the season that I thought Wilder needed to choose his best centre forward and give him a decent run of games to get some form. I don't really care which one he chooses, but I still think it would help.
Great to get a win last night, of course, but let's not kid ourselves that it changes much. A win at home to Wimbledon was the absolute minimum required to buy CW some more time, and we made incredibly hard work of achieving it. I really hope that we can push on from here, gain in confidence and go on an unbeaten run. Because, again, that's a basic requirement of CW's continued tenure. I don't care that Gillingham are top of the league - we still apparently harbour ambitions of promotion this season, and that generally means not losing at home, even to the better clubs in the division.
Onwards and upwards...
Great to get a win last night, of course, but let's not kid ourselves that it changes much. A win at home to Wimbledon was the absolute minimum required to buy CW some more time, and we made incredibly hard work of achieving it. I really hope that we can push on from here, gain in confidence and go on an unbeaten run. Because, again, that's a basic requirement of CW's continued tenure. I don't care that Gillingham are top of the league - we still apparently harbour ambitions of promotion this season, and that generally means not losing at home, even to the better clubs in the division.
Onwards and upwards...
Re: Wombling free
I must say that I do find it a bit odd that the last two games (a win and a loss) has resulted in some poeple on here moving into the Wilder out camp, are we now expecting nothing less than being unbeaten for the next 5 games to save him - if so he may as well go now as that ain't going to happen.
We are 8 points off second position and 7 points off a relegation spot, this tells me nothing about our prospects of being promoted/relegated yet we seem able to achieve both.
The players are still motivated and losing that many games in a row would have made it hard against whoever we played on Tuesday.
I agree with IL judge the team when most the injuries have cleared up and the first team have a run together.
Last night doesn't hide the faults Wilder has but I still think it would be very rash to get rid of him - he has the second best record of any Oxford boss despite the recent run.
We are 8 points off second position and 7 points off a relegation spot, this tells me nothing about our prospects of being promoted/relegated yet we seem able to achieve both.
The players are still motivated and losing that many games in a row would have made it hard against whoever we played on Tuesday.
I agree with IL judge the team when most the injuries have cleared up and the first team have a run together.
Last night doesn't hide the faults Wilder has but I still think it would be very rash to get rid of him - he has the second best record of any Oxford boss despite the recent run.
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Paul Cooper
- Dashing young thing
- Posts: 658
- Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:16 pm
Re: Wombling free
Agree with some of what has been said. My comments:
Positives.
I thought that jake F-C was excellent and gave an intelligent interview afterwards. An 18 year old that will go far (and his comments about how important the crowd getting behind the team when they were 2-1 down hopefully may get through to the minority)
Heslop I thought had a very good game when he came on and he made a difference. By far his best performance this season.
Smalley very poor first half but did well in the second.
Rigg was very direct, had pace beat his man and got a few decent crosses in.
Negatives
Brown was shocking and did not come for corners/ crosses that meant that we looked exposed and likely to concede at every set piece.
The defence was terrible and needs to tighten up a lot before Saturday
Sure we are at the maximum budget but the injury list is unbelievable. A further 3 last night and any squad (even Man U) would be struggling witht he injuries we have.
I really don't know why we didn't have Marsh on the bench instead of one of the 3 defenders.
The key thing last night is that we showed some courage to come back from being behind and won. It was a huge result whether or not CW stays. It is critical that we have Leven, Whing, Chapman et al back fit as soon as possible.
Positives.
I thought that jake F-C was excellent and gave an intelligent interview afterwards. An 18 year old that will go far (and his comments about how important the crowd getting behind the team when they were 2-1 down hopefully may get through to the minority)
Heslop I thought had a very good game when he came on and he made a difference. By far his best performance this season.
Smalley very poor first half but did well in the second.
Rigg was very direct, had pace beat his man and got a few decent crosses in.
Negatives
Brown was shocking and did not come for corners/ crosses that meant that we looked exposed and likely to concede at every set piece.
The defence was terrible and needs to tighten up a lot before Saturday
Sure we are at the maximum budget but the injury list is unbelievable. A further 3 last night and any squad (even Man U) would be struggling witht he injuries we have.
I really don't know why we didn't have Marsh on the bench instead of one of the 3 defenders.
The key thing last night is that we showed some courage to come back from being behind and won. It was a huge result whether or not CW stays. It is critical that we have Leven, Whing, Chapman et al back fit as soon as possible.
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GodalmingYellow
- Senile
- Posts: 5178
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:22 am
Re: Wombling free
I think we've had the debate previously about who contributes what to the team and who that is injured would improve the team.
Leven is very much a hit and miss player. He might contribute one game then disappear for the next 3.
Chapman was very much part of the team that has been on the poor run. He has certainly not excelled this season or last season for that matter.
Whing would improve the team but not sufficiently to completely turn our form around.
As has been said on many other occasions, the vast majority of this team is the same team that won handsomly in the first few games of the season and looked like world beaters.
The point about this is that the problem isn't the injuries. And it isn't about the players technique, we know they can play well, we've all seen it with our own eyes. The problem is their fitness, motivation, tactics and all the other aspects that the management and coaching team are there to provide.
Ty asks why some people are changing to Wilder Out and assuming it is because of the last couple of games. I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part, it isn't because of the last couple of games. I said Wilder should get more time subject to him not perpetually losing games. Prior to last night, I am told (though I haven't checked) that we had won only 5 league games out of the last 27 and we had lost a club record 6 in a row. We hadn't scored mroe than 2 goals in a game for 36 matches. Those are shocking stats and there are no valid reasons to defend the management for those stats. The only reason we won last night was because Wimbledon were so poor.
Wilder has used up a shed load of money on this squad. Far more than most other teams in the division, and knowing that we had injuries, he should have used the money wisely to ensure we had enough cover.
Someone else said Beano had only scored 2 goals this calendar year. How many have the other strikers scored? How many minutes on the pitch has Beano had compared to them? It is pointless just looking at a single headline figure and trying to reach a conclusion based on that. The facts are that Beano is the only player in the squad who wasn't signed by Wilder. He is the only player in the squad for whom we have received significant cash bids for. Wilder is pissed that Beano did not want to move so Wilder couldn't have the cash to spend. He is leaving Beano out to piss the player off and get him to move on. Beano remains our highest scorer every season he has been with us, including the league seasons. Craddock, Potter, Pitman and Smalley do not come close and are all far worse players than Beano. Beano should be first pick on the teamsheet every week and given playing time and confidence shown in him by the management he will regain some form. Whilst Wilder remains, I don't think it will happen and that is yet another reason (if there were not enough already) for Wilder to go.
Leven is very much a hit and miss player. He might contribute one game then disappear for the next 3.
Chapman was very much part of the team that has been on the poor run. He has certainly not excelled this season or last season for that matter.
Whing would improve the team but not sufficiently to completely turn our form around.
As has been said on many other occasions, the vast majority of this team is the same team that won handsomly in the first few games of the season and looked like world beaters.
The point about this is that the problem isn't the injuries. And it isn't about the players technique, we know they can play well, we've all seen it with our own eyes. The problem is their fitness, motivation, tactics and all the other aspects that the management and coaching team are there to provide.
Ty asks why some people are changing to Wilder Out and assuming it is because of the last couple of games. I can't speak for anyone else, but for my part, it isn't because of the last couple of games. I said Wilder should get more time subject to him not perpetually losing games. Prior to last night, I am told (though I haven't checked) that we had won only 5 league games out of the last 27 and we had lost a club record 6 in a row. We hadn't scored mroe than 2 goals in a game for 36 matches. Those are shocking stats and there are no valid reasons to defend the management for those stats. The only reason we won last night was because Wimbledon were so poor.
Wilder has used up a shed load of money on this squad. Far more than most other teams in the division, and knowing that we had injuries, he should have used the money wisely to ensure we had enough cover.
Someone else said Beano had only scored 2 goals this calendar year. How many have the other strikers scored? How many minutes on the pitch has Beano had compared to them? It is pointless just looking at a single headline figure and trying to reach a conclusion based on that. The facts are that Beano is the only player in the squad who wasn't signed by Wilder. He is the only player in the squad for whom we have received significant cash bids for. Wilder is pissed that Beano did not want to move so Wilder couldn't have the cash to spend. He is leaving Beano out to piss the player off and get him to move on. Beano remains our highest scorer every season he has been with us, including the league seasons. Craddock, Potter, Pitman and Smalley do not come close and are all far worse players than Beano. Beano should be first pick on the teamsheet every week and given playing time and confidence shown in him by the management he will regain some form. Whilst Wilder remains, I don't think it will happen and that is yet another reason (if there were not enough already) for Wilder to go.
Re: Wombling free
I thought I'd stumbled onto Yellowsforum there for a moment. Got any evidence for that or are you just making it up? Seeing as the club have only accepted one offer for Constable (Slumdon last year, although I have a memory they may have accepted one from Bournemouth too), that hardly smacks of Wilder desperate to move him on or that he's pissed off he's stayed (in fact IL stated Wilder wanted him to stay), they turned down Rovers offer if I recall correctly. Whereas a quick work in Constables ear saying "move on, son, I don't rate you" would have done the trick."GodalmingYellow" wrote: Wilder is pissed that Beano did not want to move so Wilder couldn't have the cash to spend. He is leaving Beano out to piss the player off and get him to move on.
And I'm sure it was only a couple of games ago most on here were saying give Wilder until Christmas, I think I largely agree with that.
Re: Wombling free
"And I'm sure it was only a couple of games ago most on here were saying give Wilder until Christmas, I think I largely agree with that."
There's 13 league games between now and Christmas. If we lost the next 12 would you still be prepared to give him the 13th to see if he could turn it around?
There's 13 league games between now and Christmas. If we lost the next 12 would you still be prepared to give him the 13th to see if he could turn it around?
Re: Wombling free
It's not just the results it's the nature of our performances. Last night we only just sneaked past a very very poor side. Yes we were on a bad run but, come on.
Under CW we've never had the most potent of strike forces and now the defence seems shot away. So much for injuries. The big miss is Dubbery and he ain't coming back any time soon, if ever. We've got to get over it and move on.
Under CW we've never had the most potent of strike forces and now the defence seems shot away. So much for injuries. The big miss is Dubbery and he ain't coming back any time soon, if ever. We've got to get over it and move on.
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GodalmingYellow
- Senile
- Posts: 5178
- Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 10:22 am
Re: Wombling free
You're right, I should have added "I wonder if" to the start of that paragraph."Isaac" wrote:I thought I'd stumbled onto Yellowsforum there for a moment. Got any evidence for that or are you just making it up? Seeing as the club have only accepted one offer for Constable (Slumdon last year, although I have a memory they may have accepted one from Bournemouth too), that hardly smacks of Wilder desperate to move him on or that he's pissed off he's stayed (in fact IL stated Wilder wanted him to stay), they turned down Rovers offer if I recall correctly. Whereas a quick work in Constables ear saying "move on, son, I don't rate you" would have done the trick."GodalmingYellow" wrote: Wilder is pissed that Beano did not want to move so Wilder couldn't have the cash to spend. He is leaving Beano out to piss the player off and get him to move on.
And I'm sure it was only a couple of games ago most on here were saying give Wilder until Christmas, I think I largely agree with that.
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A-Ro
- Grumpy old git
- Posts: 2594
- Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:59 pm
- Location: Beset by fools and ne'er do wells.
Re: Wombling free
I posted this before Tuesday's game"GodalmingYellow" wrote:Prior to last night, I am told (though I haven't checked) that we had won only 5 league games out of the last 27 and we had lost a club record 6 in a row.
Since the turn of the year and prior to Tuesday night we have played 31 League games and 3 cup games, the figures are thus.
League games
Won 10
Drawn 10
Lost 11
Cup Games
Won 2
Lost 1
The last 27 games prior to Tuesday look like this.
Won 10
Drawn 6
Lost 11
The last 27 League games results prior to Tuesday are
Won 9
Drawn 8
Lost 10
Full Results for 2012 are
League
Won 11
Drawn 8
Lost 12
Cup
Won 2
Lost 1
Total
Won 13
Drawn 8
Lost 13
If you want to manufacture a bad stat that includes 5 wins prior to Tuesday night then it is thus
League
Played 18
Won 5
Drawn 4
Lost 9
All games
Played 18
Won 5
Drawn 3
Lost 10
If you want a better stat that includes 5 wins then of the last 11 games we have
Won 5
Lost 6
Those figures are the same both prior to and after Tuesday night
League games only
Played 17
Won 5
Drawn 3
Lost 9
That, however, includes Tuesday night. Prior to Tuesday the good and the bad stats are the same.
I don't know whether 6 League defeats in a row is a club record or not.
Statfest over.
For now.
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A-Ro
- Grumpy old git
- Posts: 2594
- Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:59 pm
- Location: Beset by fools and ne'er do wells.
Re: Wombling free
As for the 6 league defeats in a row, take a look at this.
Code: Select all
04-05-1991 Watford Home Lost 0 - 1 League
11-05-1991 Leicester City Away Lost 0 - 1 League
17-08-1991 Port Vale Away Lost 1 - 2 League
24-08-1991 Grimsby Town Home Lost 1 - 2 League
31-08-1991 Sunderland Away Lost 0 - 2 League
04-09-1991 Middlesbrough Home Lost 1 - 2 League
07-09-1991 Wolves Away Lost 1 - 3 League
Re: Wombling free
"Baboo" wrote:"And I'm sure it was only a couple of games ago most on here were saying give Wilder until Christmas, I think I largely agree with that."
There's 13 league games between now and Christmas. If we lost the next 12 would you still be prepared to give him the 13th to see if he could turn it around?
Well, no, because that would be stupid. Which is why I said I largely agreed with giving him until Christmas. If we won a few games on the bounce I wouldn't be demanding a 5 year contract for him either.
I actually think IL got it about right, saying it's difficult to judge entirely fairly until some of the injured players return (with the relegation threat caveat added) - before anyone jumps on me, this doesn't absolve the manager of failing to do better with the players available, it's not a black and white issue. If you look at the end of last season as well as the start of this season the evidence for getting rid of Wilder is more persuasive.
Does anyone know what it would cost to remove Wilder? Is his contract rolling or fixed? This may have a big influence on the decision. Given we're at the wage cap plus outside of the transfer window, a new manager is likely to be fairly limited in changing anything significant in the short term. And we all know the first thing a new manager will do is turf out a few players and sign a whole lot of new ones.