Stadium Rumour

[GodalmingYellow]

Take some old ground, rake it over a bit.

Ah, must be close season....

[Dartford Ox]

Take some old ground, rake it over a bit.

Ah, must be close season....

What a magnificent idea.

I wonder what other threads need reviving??

[Sackcloth Ox]

Take some old ground, rake it over a bit.

Ah, must be close season....

Ponts raised by snake all perfectly current and relevant, can't see us progressing beyong L1 unless stadium ownership is sorted.

[GodalmingYellow]

Take some old ground, rake it over a bit.

Ah, must be close season....

Ponts raised by snake all perfectly current and relevant, can't see us progressing beyong L1 unless stadium ownership is sorted.

Raising &quotponts&quot eh? Clever trick. But what about Oxford United's ground?! Seriously I wasn't criticising Snake's points, just pointing out that nothing has changed and nor will it for some time to come, and this always gets reviewed int he summer months.

It's an ongoing stalemate. It's the same argument from 2001.

The ground will not be worth (to OUFC) what Kassam wants for it until we are at Championship level. Kassam won't sell unless it is at his asking price, which is too high. Kassam isn't going to budge a millimetre, and whilst OUFC are under a reducing lease, Kassam holds virtually all the aces.

OUFC only hopes are that Kassam has cashflow issues, or OUFC can persuade the council to let us build another stadium in a much better location with rail and bus links, and the banks finally decide to start lending sensibly again. Hell will freeze over before the 2nd option happens.

The position is not going to change until OUFC reach the Championship, which could easily be longer than is left to run on the lease, and there has been virtually no change in the position for a very long time.

[Snake]

Take some old ground, rake it over a bit.

Ah, must be close season....

Ponts raised by snake all perfectly current and relevant, can't see us progressing beyong L1 unless stadium ownership is sorted.

Raising &quotponts&quot eh? Clever trick. But what about Oxford United's ground?! Seriously I wasn't criticising Snake's points, just pointing out that nothing has changed and nor will it for some time to come, and this always gets reviewed int he summer months.

It's an ongoing stalemate. It's the same argument from 2001.

The ground will not be worth (to OUFC) what Kassam wants for it until we are at Championship level. Kassam won't sell unless it is at his asking price, which is too high. Kassam isn't going to budge a millimetre, and whilst OUFC are under a reducing lease, Kassam holds virtually all the aces.

OUFC only hopes are that Kassam has cashflow issues, or OUFC can persuade the council to let us build another stadium in a much better location with rail and bus links, and the banks finally decide to start lending sensibly again. Hell will freeze over before the 2nd option happens.

The position is not going to change until OUFC reach the Championship, which could easily be longer than is left to run on the lease, and there has been virtually no change in the position for a very long time.

Got to agree with GY on this one but if and when we get into the Championship there is nothing in our current legal agreements for a newly formed company (let’s call it ‘Firoka Oxford United 2015’, or even ‘AFC Firoka’) to trump all the formalities with a bid of £13m plus a quid if the going is good financially.

Meanwhile, OxVox host a quiz at The Priory (and Trevor’s team wins if anyone is in the least bit interested).

[slappy]

News on Rotherham
Rotherham Council has agreed to lend £5m to the town's football club to help it build a new stadium. The funding is part of £17.3m needed to build Rotherham United's ground and bring the club &quotback home&quot. The club has agreed to pay the £5m council loan before 2016. A further £12m is being raised by the football club using various sources as part of the cost of building the Millers' new stadium.
[hr]
It would be interesting to see a bit more detail on this. Where is the extra £12MM coming from, and how are they planning to repay £5MM in 4 years? Millmoor was owned by a separate landlord so no cash from there. I can only guess that they forecast that a club and stadium together will generate sufficient ancillary income to make the £5MM affordable, or have plans to refinance this in 4 years time.

[ty cobb]

I would be interested in Ox Vox's views on the current stadium situation. I was always under the impression that they have stayed silent on the matter and not put any pressure on Kassam to reduce the price because the club didn't want to create bad relations with him, with a change of chairman maybe this view may change?

Looking at the cost of bulidng other stadiums it seems that £13 million is a reasonable price for a stadium especially when it's in Oxford where the land is far more expensive than somewhere like Rotherham.

That said I still think Firoz needs to take a haircut on the stadium price giving all the other developments that he's got out of the site. By selling the stadium at a knockdown price, or even giving it to us (yeah right!) it would immediatly transform his legacy in Oxford from a chairman who was only in it for himself to someone who not only saved the club but secured the long term future of the club.

As things stand I think OUFC have got a very good deal on the stadium - the mortage alone on building a stadium of £13 million would be about double our current rent, let alone the upkeep and running costs.

Still think we need to own it to progress though and I'd be interested to know how much the rent goes up if we go up to league 1?

Would also be interested in peoples views on what a fair price for the stadium would be - I'll start the bidding at £8 million.

[STEVE F]

AM FAIRLY CERTAIN A 10MILLION CASH OFFER TO FK WOULD BE ACCEPTED AND IN TODAY.S MARKET IS A FAIR OFFER

[Snake]

Lots of sense on this thread, and even STEVE F is not far out in his valuation if he’s only thinking about the Stadium and not the surrounding land.

I’d say something between £6-10m for the Stadium alone, but I’d also go for anything between nothing and £6m for the overflow car park and nothing and £3m for the East Stand car park. The West Stand parking area is of course sacrosanct as it serves the Ozone. It all depends on whether Oxford City Council are really serious about granting lucrative development rights on there (and maybe who they are dealing with). Of course if we lost our parking areas to shops or whatever then it's also within the grasp of the local authority to rectify the issue - such as relaxing the restrictions in the Leys and looking constructively at that green field just across the road from the Stadium.

[GodalmingYellow]

I would be interested in Ox Vox's views on the current stadium situation. I was always under the impression that they have stayed silent on the matter and not put any pressure on Kassam to reduce the price because the club didn't want to create bad relations with him, with a change of chairman maybe this view may change?

Looking at the cost of bulidng other stadiums it seems that £13 million is a reasonable price for a stadium especially when it's in Oxford where the land is far more expensive than somewhere like Rotherham.

That said I still think Firoz needs to take a haircut on the stadium price giving all the other developments that he's got out of the site. By selling the stadium at a knockdown price, or even giving it to us (yeah right!) it would immediatly transform his legacy in Oxford from a chairman who was only in it for himself to someone who not only saved the club but secured the long term future of the club.

As things stand I think OUFC have got a very good deal on the stadium - the mortage alone on building a stadium of £13 million would be about double our current rent, let alone the upkeep and running costs.

Still think we need to own it to progress though and I'd be interested to know how much the rent goes up if we go up to league 1?

Would also be interested in peoples views on what a fair price for the stadium would be - I'll start the bidding at £8 million.

Whilst that argument may at first appear to be rational, when you take into account the covenants on the land, the whole pitcure changes drastically.

Other land in Oxford is not subject to such covenants and so has a higher valuation due to potential development opportunities.

Furthermore, account has to be taken of the appalling trading history of the conference centre.

[ty cobb]

I would be interested in Ox Vox's views on the current stadium situation. I was always under the impression that they have stayed silent on the matter and not put any pressure on Kassam to reduce the price because the club didn't want to create bad relations with him, with a change of chairman maybe this view may change?

Looking at the cost of bulidng other stadiums it seems that £13 million is a reasonable price for a stadium especially when it's in Oxford where the land is far more expensive than somewhere like Rotherham.

That said I still think Firoz needs to take a haircut on the stadium price giving all the other developments that he's got out of the site. By selling the stadium at a knockdown price, or even giving it to us (yeah right!) it would immediatly transform his legacy in Oxford from a chairman who was only in it for himself to someone who not only saved the club but secured the long term future of the club.

As things stand I think OUFC have got a very good deal on the stadium - the mortage alone on building a stadium of £13 million would be about double our current rent, let alone the upkeep and running costs.

Still think we need to own it to progress though and I'd be interested to know how much the rent goes up if we go up to league 1?

Would also be interested in peoples views on what a fair price for the stadium would be - I'll start the bidding at £8 million.

Whilst that argument may at first appear to be rational, when you take into account the covenants on the land, the whole pitcure changes drastically.

Other land in Oxford is not subject to such covenants and so has a higher valuation due to potential development opportunities.

Furthermore, account has to be taken of the appalling trading history of the conference centre.

But if the club benefits from the conference centre far more people would be inclined to use it.

There ain't that long of that 25 years left now - what happens with the convents then, can't Firoka just do what they want?

Come on then GY stick your neck on the line - how much should the club pay for a newish stadium with potential for development, lets not forget if they go elsewhere it will cost upwards of £20 million.

[GodalmingYellow]

But if the club benefits from the conference centre far more people would be inclined to use it.

That's a highly subjective argument and completely non-quantifiable. In my view it is of almost certainly very limited benefit at best. The vast majority of businesses make decisions based on cost and quality, not on relationship to their supported football club.

There ain't that long of that 25 years left now - what happens with the convents then, can't Firoka just do what they want?

No. Covenants last until Land Registry decide they are no longer valid restrictions as to the use of the site. That would mean there being no available lessee to use the site for sports, and almost certainly several court decisions to have the covenants over-turned.

Come on then GY stick your neck on the line - how much should the club pay for a newish stadium with potential for development, lets not forget if they go elsewhere it will cost upwards of £20 million.

I've done this one plenty of times before!

Potential for development is an estate agents term to big up a land deal. Without at least outline planning permission for development, the term potential for development is fairly meaningless. It may well be wrong, by I've been told that the planning permissions previously held to expand the stadium have been allowed to lapse. So development at the Kassam Stadium would require further rounds of planning consent.

The stadium as bricks and mortar cannot be valued without also considering the costs of owning and running the place. That means taking into consideration the trading position of the Stadium Company, which is fairly horrific. It also means taking into consideration, the obligations and responsibilities to the existing staff.

The value of the Stadium depends also on to whom it is being offered. So the value to Kassam may be very different to the value to OUFC.

The value to Kassam depends on factors such as his needs for cash, demands of banks for re-financing or loan redemption, length remaining on the lease, demand from potential purchasers, needs of OUFC, and the cost of continued ownership given the trading position of StadCo.

The value to OUFC depends on the demand for seats by supporters, the level at which football is being played, the availability of funding, the needs of Kassam, the availability to play elsewhere, and so on.

So it isn't simply a case of saying it cost £10m to build so it is worth £10m, or other sites would cost £20m, so it must be worth £20m (and I don't know what it would cost to build a new stadum elsewhere in the county, and I'm not suggesting that you are saying the KasStad is worth £20m).

It's a complicated set of circumstances, and requires a willing buyer and willing seller.

My view hasn't really changed for a long time, that if I were the club, at Division 1 or 2 level, I would not pay a penny more than £6m for the stadium and car parks. At Championship level, the value goes up considerably, because of the significantly increased demand for seats and therefore revenue, and I imagine at that point, a figure of £10m would be appropriate. If I were Kassam, I would not sell for a penny less than the planning and build costs and net running costs incurred to date, which is presumably where he gets his £13m asking price from.

I guess that means the values of £6m to £10m are in the right ball park.

[Snake]

£6m for the Stadium and the car parks?

I’m not sure how that works out in terms of pounds per hectare of land on the edge of one of the best half-decent conurbations in the UK, but I’ll bet Firoka know - and that’s without the ‘hope value’ of future planning permission.

[GodalmingYellow]

£6m for the Stadium and the car parks?

I’m not sure how that works out in terms of pounds per hectare of land on the edge of one of the best half-decent conurbations in the UK, but I’ll bet Firoka know - and that’s without the ‘hope value’ of future planning permission.

The value of the site to OUFC, which is what we are talking about, cannot be measured in price per hectare like other land in the area. It has to be measured in terms of what is affordable and benefical to the club. There would be no point in the club paying more for the site, because it would simply bankrupt the club.

The car parks would have to go with the stadium unless there was a very signfiicant new parking facility provided.

As I said the covenants massively reduce the site value, as there is in effect only one possible buyer. A third party is never going to buy the site whilst it is loss making and under a long, albeit reducing, lease. Unless they were a rich benefactor who supported the club and were prepared to lose cash by the bucket load.

[slappy]

News on Rotherham
Rotherham Council has agreed to lend £5m to the town's football club to help it build a new stadium. The funding is part of £17.3m needed to build Rotherham United's ground and bring the club &quotback home&quot. The club has agreed to pay the £5m council loan before 2016. A further £12m is being raised by the football club using various sources as part of the cost of building the Millers' new stadium.
[hr]
It would be interesting to see a bit more detail on this. Where is the extra £12MM coming from, and how are they planning to repay £5MM in 4 years? Millmoor was owned by a separate landlord so no cash from there. I can only guess that they forecast that a club and stadium together will generate sufficient ancillary income to make the £5MM affordable, or have plans to refinance this in 4 years time.

link
Rotherham insist adequate funding is in place for the development of their new stadium.

The League Two club, who currently play their home fixtures in Sheffield at the Don Valley Stadium, have responded to an article in the local press that claimed there was a £2.3million shortfall in the project.

&quotAs a result of a recent article Rotherham Football Club would like to assure supporters that, taking into account the grant funding that has been applied for, the £5million loan from the council completes the funding requirements for the new stadium,&quot said a statement on the club's official website.

&quotIt is regrettable that the Rotherham Advertiser decided to publish the front page headline story suggesting that a £2.3million shortfall still existed without obtaining full clarification from the club.

&quotWe hope this has not caused too much unnecessary anxiety amongst supporters.

&quotWe are delighted to announce that, as everyone can see, work began on the site this week and we are currently looking to have a webcam installed to allow supporters to monitor the new stadium's progress.&quot