patterson has to go tonight, patterson out now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YellowHoods]

I think you've mistaken this for TIU.

You mean the &quotother place&quot where the ruffians gather to willfully mis-spell, and vent their feelings with passion? Or is the humour a little too crude for you?

Go on, enlighten me. Exactly what did you mean by your comment?

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

I think he may have meant &quota place where people mouth off without thinking and thereby make an informed and coherent discussion impossible to have&quot.

The display of passion does not preculde the exercise of thought, and if it did, it would not be a good thing. It is a good thing to speak one's mind, but it is helpful if one exercises that mind before speaking.

Accurate language, since you raise the question, is an aid to accurate communication. For this reason, among others, it is to be encouraged.

[Baboo]

[
As to who would take it. There are managers of smaller clubs that have served apprentiships and would jump at the chance and managers who are curently out of work who would love a job.

There are people who are out there that should have been approached or invited to apply for the post, rather than seemingly giving it to someone who was promised it, namely patterson, in the style of the old boys network. Managers such as Greame Westly, Leroy Rosenior, Hessentalar, Martin Allen, Nigel Clough, Cooper at Kettering, Steve King, the list goes on.

Of course there are people out there and I don't doubt (or perhaps in the case of OUFC I should) that they would be good managers, but you have ignored my comment given that WE HAVE NO CASH TO FLASH.
Do you think we should spend even more money and get even deeper into debt? (Only asking - I have no solution to the problem that is Oxford United)

[YellowHoods]

I think he may have meant &quota place where people mouth off without thinking and thereby make an informed and coherent discussion impossible to have&quot.

The display of passion does not preculde the exercise of thought, and if it did, it would not be a good thing. It is a good thing to speak one's mind, but it is helpful if one exercises that mind before speaking.

Accurate language, since you raise the question, is an aid to accurate communication. For this reason, among others, it is to be encouraged.

Sorry, you appear to have mistakenly assumed I was directing my questions at you.

But since you've replied it would be rude to ignore you.

You seem to like making massive generalisations. It is easy to avoid the more basic and unilluminating threads on TiU if you wish. Some of your co-Rage Onliners do it all the time.

Believe it or not, passionate posts - perhaps not always thought through - stimulate some good debates.

And despite the superior tones of your last paragraph, many TiU posters are capable of eloquence that would evidently surprise you.

Before I go, is there a spellcheck on this forum? If not, perhaps you should read your posts more closely before submitting. Unless, of course, &quotpreculde&quot is a new word. As you say, accurate language is an aid to accurate communication.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

It is. But I suspect you and I both know the difference between a typo, which is something we all do now and then - and therefore does not tend to attract criticism - and writing without thought, which is something we should all try to avoid. On TiU it is not exactly evident that this is universally agreed.

I don't actually give a damn whether you were addressing me or not, since- and I think we both know this as well - this is not a private conversation (there is a private message facility available for that function) but an open board. As such a comment made by anyone may be answered by anyone, and this is the nature of the medium.

It is also why it's not always helpful to have shouty, thoughtless people about, because while it is possible to ignore the threads that they begin (provided there are not too many of them) it is not equally possible to have them ignore the threads that are started by everybody else. And it is my experience of bulletin boards that the shouty and thoughtless, while it may indeed occasionally spark off a good debate, far more often disrupts and demolishes whatever good debate is taking place. The bad, if you like (or even if you do not like) drives out the good.

Which is why a style widely favoured on TiU is not equally in favour here. Not all bulletin boards are identical, and it may be that there are good reasons why some people choose to debate here, rather than there.

[YellowHoods]

OK. Drawing attention to the typo was a cheap shot, but dress up your opinions how you like, they are elitist and certainly give the impression that you look down on TiU posters because you consider their style and substance to be beneath you.

I am not debating the above points. That's exactly how it seems to me, and I assume on a democratic forum I am entitled to an opinion.

Why not just ignore the &quotshouty and thoughtless&quot? You don't have to engage them.

Rarely is snobbishness encountered on TiU, and, I'm happy to say, it is usually shouted down when it occurs. But that's probably a bit too shouty for you.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

OK. Drawing attention to the typo was a cheap shot, but dress up your opinions how you like, they are elitist

No they're not. They're about as elitist as a public library. They require nothing from anybody more than thought. And if &quotthought&quot is elitist, then God help us.

It's true that I'm not a populist. I loathe and despise the too-common approach of exalting what is ignorant and thoughtless merely because a lot of people like it. I do not think that one opinion is as good as another, nor that one means of expressing it is as good as another. This is not a function of how much education anybody has. It's a function of whether or not they think it's a good idea to behave like a jerk.

and certainly give the impression that you look down on TiU posters because you consider their style and substance to be beneath you.

No, I dislike certain styles of posting because of their effect. This is what I said, and you know that it is what I said. Try not to pretend that people hold opinions that they have not expressed - it's a popular manouevre, but it is not an admirable one.

I am not debating the above points. That's exactly how it seems to me, and I assume on a democratic forum I am entitled to an opinion

The assumption that this is a democratic forum is not really to be squared with the refusal to debate your points, is it?

You are of course entitled to an opinion. But you're not entitled to have it respected merely because it is an opinion.

Why not just ignore the &quotshouty and thoughtless&quot? You don't have to engage them

For the reasons explained, more than once, above. Still, I'll give it another go, shall I? Because they're destructive to the debate overall. This is so even if this or that individual should choose to try and ignore them.

For this reason, debates in public tend to have structures, and both written and unwritten expectations of those who participate in them. People who do not like that are asking for the triumph of the biggest and loudest mouth. I think this is something to be avoided.

[YellowHoods]

OK. Drawing attention to the typo was a cheap shot, but dress up your opinions how you like, they are elitist

No they're not. They're about as elitist as a public library. They require nothing from anybody more than thought. And if &quotthought&quot is elitist, then God help us.

It's true that I'm not a populist. I loathe and despise the too-common approach of exalting what is ignorant and thoughtless merely because a lot of people like it. I do not think that one opinion is as good as another, nor that one means of expressing it is as good as another. This is not a function of how much education anybody has. It's a function of whether or not they think it's a good idea to behave like a jerk.

and certainly give the impression that you look down on TiU posters because you consider their style and substance to be beneath you.

No, I dislike certain styles of posting because of their effect. This is what I said, and you know that it is what I said. Try not to pretend that people hold opinions that they have not expressed - it's a popular manouevre, but it is not an admirable one.

I am not debating the above points. That's exactly how it seems to me, and I assume on a democratic forum I am entitled to an opinion

The assumption that this is a democratic forum is not really to be squared with the refusal to debate your points, is it?

You are of course entitled to an opinion. But you're not entitled to have it respected merely because it is an opinion.

Why not just ignore the &quotshouty and thoughtless&quot? You don't have to engage them

For the reasons explained, more than once, above. Still, I'll give it another go, shall I? Because they're destructive to the debate overall. This is so even if this or that individual should choose to try and ignore them.

For this reason, debates in public tend to have structures, and both written and unwritten expectations of those who participate in them. People who do not like that are asking for the triumph of the biggest and loudest mouth. I think this is something to be avoided.

So, in your world, where does that leave people who have &quotgut feelings&quot they wish to express, but not the education to express them with any erudition? Does lack of education = behaving like a jerk?

Perhaps it would be good sport to put these people in their place? Not that they would realise you were doing so, being thick an' that.

[SmileyMan]

Out of interest, why do you feel the need to defend TiU? As a poor analogy, pubs, wine bars and strip clubs are all places I can go with friends (or on my own) for a drink and some entertainment. I enjoy all of them at different times, depending on mood, but I don't think I'd prop up the bar next to a lady of negotiable persuasion and say &quotNice tits, love, but where's the dartboard?&quot

[YellowHoods]

Out of interest, why do you feel the need to defend TiU? As a poor analogy, pubs, wine bars and strip clubs are all places I can go with friends (or on my own) for a drink and some entertainment. I enjoy all of them at different times, depending on mood, but I don't think I'd prop up the bar next to a lady of negotiable persuasion and say &quotNice tits, love, but where's the dartboard?&quot

Because I think it's worth defendi9ng. I enjoy this board and the OxVox forum (mostly reading), but spend most time on TiU because there is more traffic.

You get, sorry, one gets used to the tendencies of different posters and can either ignore their threads and posts or react to them. One's own choice. But they have a right to post without being ridiculed or looked down upon.

If you're suggesting different behaviours are appropriate to different fora, why? Can't people post as themselves in any environment?

[yellowportly]

welcome YellowHoods and Thamensian

nice to see some new faces

your opinions are as welcome as anyone's I would say it is after all a public forum and anyone* is welcome

just be careful not to mention punctuation, 'real' ale or the MK Dons though it tends to upset the locals.

*unless you're from the arse end of the A420

[YellowHoods]

welcome YellowHoods and Thamensian

nice to see some new faces

your opinions are as welcome as anyone's I would say it is after all a public forum and anyone* is welcome

just be careful not to mention punctuation, 'real' ale or the MK Dons though it tends to upset the locals.

*unless you're from the arse end of the A420

Thanks for the warning, although I must say I think punctuation is over-rated, real ale is the poor relation of lager, and the MK Dons deserve their success.

[YF Dan]

I'm no snob, if that's what's being implied. However, the beauty of this forum is that it is normally a recluse from the rabid bating more associated with our club's other major talking shop.

There are some reasons to argue Patterson should go (none of which have appeared on this thread), there are still more to argue he should stay. I've made plenty of posts on other threads clearly stating my opinion.

However, I will reiterate this. In the past 10 (perhaps even 20) years of dramatic decline, our club has had only one constant - the fans. Our problems have been caused by many people, but are exasibated by fans who scream frantically for manager's heads (and I admit have been guilty of this), who boo strikers who miss chances, and who fail to really see what the real problems that are tearing our club apart.

[SmileyMan]

If you're suggesting different behaviours are appropriate to different fora, why? Can't people post as themselves in any environment?

Of course they can, given the open nature of the Internet forum. Whether they should is up to each individual. Personally, I like to experience a wide range of different societies both online and in real life, and I enjoy the variety, both of the company and the conventions.

However, I don't have unlimited time. So, for my choice of society when it comes to my Oxford United online experience, I limit myself to Rage Online, because I enjoy the people who post here, and I enjoy its little quirks and conventions, such as the pedantry, the affection for crossword clues and so on.

[Pe├▒a Oxford United]

What you said:

So, in your world, where does that leave people who have &quotgut feelings&quot they wish to express, but not the education to express them with any erudition? Does lack of education = behaving like a jerk?

What I said:

This is not a function of how much education anybody has. It's a function of whether or not they think it's a good idea to behave like a jerk.

I think that suffices in and of itself.

But they have a right to post without being ridiculed

People have a right to post without being ridiculed?

Is that how it works on TiU?

Incidentally, insofar as I'm interested in this (which is not very far) the aspect of language and education in this discussion is almost entirely a figment of the imagination of people who want to showboat about how elitist they think this forum is. For example, on this thread it was introduced by YellowHoods.

In fact I can think of no occasion when anybody here has been seriously assailed for failings of English language. Occasionally a laugh is had about it on here, always at the expense of somebody who possesses a high standard of written English. As a complaint against this forum, it's a complete fraud.