The question

[GodalmingYellow]

&quotI have no idea why the club owners are so cloistered about WPL's ownership. What is the problem?&quot ....... Consider this: &quotHi Mr Kassam, we are WPL, a consortium backed by the extremely wealthy Mr Lenaghan. How much money would you like for your football stadium, Sir&quot. Not great for negotiating and not the best for OUFC, I'd suggest.

It's quite easy to find out who the directors of any company are via companies house (for a fee), I don't imagine this is beyond Kassam.

It's a weird one though, there must be a reason for the lack of an announcement.

We know all the Directors Isaac. It is confirmation of who is behind WPL that is the issue. We know Lenaghan has provided a large debenture (£1m from memory) to WPL. 50% of WPL is owned by a trust. Because it is a trust, it is not currently possible to identify who the trust beneficiarys are and therefore who officially has 50% of WPL.

I did hear a rumour that Mr L has a financial stake in another football club, which might explain why he wants to keep quiet for now. I've also heard rumours that he has dealt with Kassam before and that they don't get on and that might be a contributory factor. That it is a trust may of course be a simple tax saving measure and a complete red herring.

[neilw]

But the price will not be based on usual business / commercial logic and returns. Kassam will not sell at true worth. Therefore, to a certain extent, it becomes an emotional purchase, much like the club was at £2m||, when it had no real value. The price will be based on Kassam's perception of WPL's ability to pay and, perhaps even more so, Kassam's perception of how much they really want / need the ground.

To some extend by Kassam selling OUFC seperately he has Merry and Co right where he wants them. They are already committed to the whole project, which in itself will increase the sale price. Kassam doesn't need to sell, Merry and Co need to buy. What you can be sure of is, if (?) the stadium does transfer, the price will be way in excess of true value.

[Resurrection Ox]

My understanding, which I admit is partial, is that having a debenture on a family trust does not mean that he is the sole legal owner of that trust. He will almost certainly be a trustee, but there could be several, and as a trustee it doesn't mean that he is a beneficiary.

What it means is that he has lent money to the entity and has secured that loan. In the event of business failure (WPL) he ranks first in the queue.

We have no idea who the members of the trust are. As a comparison back in the Chelsea days of Ken Bates ownership was via an offsfhore trust. No one knew what share of the action Bates actually had. Which is the case here.

The fact that Lenagan has secured his position via debenture shows that he is a prime mover nonetheless.

[Resurrection Ox]

But the price will not be based on usual business / commercial logic and returns. Kassam will not sell at true worth. Therefore, to a certain extent, it becomes an emotional purchase, much like the club was at £2m||, when it had no real value. The price will be based on Kassam's perception of WPL's ability to pay and, perhaps even more so, Kassam's perception of how much they really want / need the ground.

To some extend by Kassam selling OUFC seperately he has Merry and Co right where he wants them. They are already committed to the whole project, which in itself will increase the sale price. Kassam doesn't need to sell, Merry and Co need to buy. What you can be sure of is, if (?) the stadium does transfer, the price will be way in excess of true value.

Disagree with your comment that club has no real value. 6,000 average gates per game brings in c £75,000 23 times per season. Not to be sniffed at.

Disagree about your view on price of stadium as well. Kassam can be encouraged to sell via (say) a smart supporters campaign.

[Snake]

Gosh, someone has at last pointed to the elephant in the corner of he room and said “hey, what’s that doing in here?

[DLT]

It won't drive up the price if it is Ian Lenaghan and family alone. And Kassam clearly already knows about Lenaghan, because he doesn't negotiate with people until they prove they can afford to do the deal.

If it was somebody else, with even bigger bucks,or a need to purchase a stadium more desperately than OUFC do, well that might make Kassam add 5 or 6 million to the price.

Especially if they could find much greater use of the stadium than at present and make it a much more profitable concern.

I have to get this London Irish/Wasps paranoia out of my head.

Or maybe someone who wants to stage 5 concerts a year.

[Resurrection Ox]

[quote=&quotSnake&quot]Gosh, someone has at last pointed to the elephant in the corner of he room and said “hey, what’s that doing in here?

[DLT]

But the price will not be based on usual business / commercial logic and returns. Kassam will not sell at true worth. Therefore, to a certain extent, it becomes an emotional purchase, much like the club was at £2m||, when it had no real value. The price will be based on Kassam's perception of WPL's ability to pay and, perhaps even more so, Kassam's perception of how much they really want / need the ground.

To some extend by Kassam selling OUFC seperately he has Merry and Co right where he wants them. They are already committed to the whole project, which in itself will increase the sale price. Kassam doesn't need to sell, Merry and Co need to buy. What you can be sure of is, if (?) the stadium does transfer, the price will be way in excess of true value.

Sorry Neil, my last post was written before I read the above.

I agree with fully. But I would still like to know who is the lender of last resort.

[Snake]

[quote=&quotResurrection Ox&quot][quote=&quotSnake&quot]Gosh, someone has at last pointed to the elephant in the corner of he room and said “hey, what’s that doing in here?

[Resurrection Ox]

[quote=&quotSnake&quot][quote=&quotResurrection Ox&quot][quote=&quotSnake&quot]Gosh, someone has at last pointed to the elephant in the corner of he room and said “hey, what’s that doing in here?

[Baboo]

It's ironic that those doing the most worrying and questioning, with regards to the current owners, are those who did this the least about the previous regime. It so makes me smile

Neil you are making a big big assumption here - that there was no worrying and questioning of the previous regime. IMHO you are very very wrong in this. Maybe it wasn't done in public.
And then there's the key issue that has been raised so many times - where was the credible alternative. When NM came along I don't recall a rallying cry of &quotwe must stick with Firoz.&quot

[GodalmingYellow]

But the price will not be based on usual business / commercial logic and returns. Kassam will not sell at true worth. Therefore, to a certain extent, it becomes an emotional purchase, much like the club was at £2m||, when it had no real value. The price will be based on Kassam's perception of WPL's ability to pay and, perhaps even more so, Kassam's perception of how much they really want / need the ground.

To some extend by Kassam selling OUFC seperately he has Merry and Co right where he wants them. They are already committed to the whole project, which in itself will increase the sale price. Kassam doesn't need to sell, Merry and Co need to buy. What you can be sure of is, if (?) the stadium does transfer, the price will be way in excess of true value.

Sorry Neil, but that is simply not going to happen.

People like Kassam, Lenaghan, and Merry have wealth for a reason. The reason is that they know how much to pay for something. They have lawyers, accountants, valuers and a shed load of other advisors to tell them how much the stadium is worth, and that will take account of all the normal commercial factors. There may be negotiating room of 10% or so around that, but the idea that Kassam sees a rich potential buyer and is able to smakc another £5m on the price tag and still expect to sell is fanciful in the extreme. Merry and Co will just tell him to get stuffed as they have previously when he asked too much.

[GodalmingYellow]

My understanding, which I admit is partial, is that having a debenture on a family trust does not mean that he is the sole legal owner of that trust. He will almost certainly be a trustee, but there could be several, and as a trustee it doesn't mean that he is a beneficiary.

What it means is that he has lent money to the entity and has secured that loan. In the event of business failure (WPL) he ranks first in the queue.

We have no idea who the members of the trust are. As a comparison back in the Chelsea days of Ken Bates ownership was via an offsfhore trust. No one knew what share of the action Bates actually had. Which is the case here.

The fact that Lenagan has secured his position via debenture shows that he is a prime mover nonetheless.

I would add to that, that there is no way that a debenture of £1m would be set up from an independant 3rd party to a private family trust, unless the debenture holder was a trustee and beneficiary, or it was done for long term tax purposes. They don't just give away their money!

[GodalmingYellow]

[quote=&quotSnake&quot]Gosh, someone has at last pointed to the elephant in the corner of he room and said “hey, what’s that doing in here?

[Matt D]

Sorry Neil, but that is simply not going to happen.

People like Kassam, Lenaghan, and Merry have wealth for a reason. The reason is that they know how much to pay for something. They have lawyers, accountants, valuers and a shed load of other advisors to tell them how much the stadium is worth, and that will take account of all the normal commercial factors. There may be negotiating room of 10% or so around that, but the idea that Kassam sees a rich potential buyer and is able to smakc another £5m on the price tag and still expect to sell is fanciful in the extreme. Merry and Co will just tell him to get stuffed as they have previously when he asked too much.

sorry godalming yellow, but i'm not sure i understand why this would be.

it seems to me that merry &amp co. can tell him to get stuffed if they don't like the price, but they still need the stadium. meanwhile, kassam will still get the rent from the club, and whatever income he gets from conferences etc., so has no great imperative to sell.

so if he thinks that the &quot&amp co.&quot bit of merry &amp co. have enough money to pay a higher price, and the desire/need to do so, why wouldn't he stick the price up and wait for them to either meet it, or at least offer more than they originally were?