Don't normally go to away games

[Werthers Original]

.. but Dagenham is near my folks so I went along with my brother in law. Dagenham don't have any fans! The only decent stand was a new one built for away fans when they got into the league - there's no home end, just a fence with a few geezers leaning against it, and no noise or chanting. The rest of the ground is a ramshackle collection of ill-matched buildings that make the manor look like the Kassam.

Why was Smalley picked yet again? Beano looked dangerous when he came on and it seemed that if time didn't run out we'd turn our second half pressure into a 0-1 winner, probably by Williams. But he trotted off for Wroe and in one of their rare breaks the Daggers got a comical and unlikely goal in the last minute. Not much in it really, they can pass and we're nothing special but we did almost enough to win. The players tunnel is in the middle of the away stand, and the players have to go almost through the crowd to get off. One identikit teenager said something to Whing and he and Wright had to be held back by stewards -brave and foolish kid to have a go at our two hardest players. A very frustrating day, but a fun ground to visit - I guess me and b-in-l will be there again next year.

[Kairdiff Exile]

Says a lot about how our season has gone that yours is the only post after Saturday's game and we're now at Monday morning. I guess we've all just given up now - including some of the players, I would think. If Waddock had come in and won the first few games, maybe there might have been belief that we could have gone on a run - but I think everyone's looking ahead to rebuilding in the summer.

[recordmeister]

That is an utterly ludicrous proposition given that we were top this season at various stages. If the players have given up, they can, quite frankly, fuck off.

I don't believe they have.

[Kairdiff Exile]

That is an utterly ludicrous proposition given that we were top this season at various stages. If the players have given up, they can, quite frankly, fuck off.

And good on you for having that attitude - but from what I've seen/read/heard of the last two games, the sense of "this isn't going to be our year" seems to have taken hold, and I'm not sure your sense of fight is shared by the players. A lot of them are out of contract in the summer and are presumably - after last last week's announcement - starting to look elsewhere in case they're not offered contracts here.

Our league position suggests we could make the playoffs. We may well do so. But to win those playoffs requires you to go into them with a bit of form and a bit of self-belief. At the moment, we have neither.

[JoeyBeauchamp]

After the freak nature of the goal on Saturday, you'd forgive a few for thinking this is not going to be our year.

[GodalmingYellow]

I think a lot of this "not going to be our year" attitude results from Lenagan effectively saying as much with his excuses for the delays in the appointment process.

[ty cobb]

And for the ambition shown by the owner in keeping hold of the manager who assembled a squad who had us top of the league for a while.

If I was Wright, I'd wonder why a manager who I really respected and enjoyed playing for was given a better offer by a club marooned at the bottom of the league and would be very very frustrated by the shambles we've seen since. And then the fans who wanted Wilder out have the gall to have a go at him?!?

Any team that chops and changes both the players and formation is going to struggle. Tactics on Sat were play with a small goal poacher up top and launch the ball to him as soon as we got it. There was no movement, no triangles to keep the ball just a hoof. Beano on the bench was a joke as was playing Smalley. However, what annoyed me most was when we conceeded Raynes made a very clear point that he should go up top to try and grab a goal and Waddock told him to wait for a couple of minutes - what a joke. Honeymoon over Gary you need to sort this out, you've been left with a team that hasn't been outside the play offs all season, how are you going to improve it because at the moment we're going backwards fast.

If we really were #unitedwestand we'd have all got behind Wilder when we were top three letting him go is proving to be a huge mistake and you don't need the benefit of hindsight to see it.

And yes maybe we need to "move on" but I'm sorry I'm furious that our season is being tossed away so casually, we have never been in the play offs in this league and to give up that chance makes me not want to bother going anymore.

LDLLDLWLL.

[SWA]

Wilder is gone Ty, whether right or wrong. Effectively, he walked out on us and bottled it. You need to move on, I am afraid. Your posts are all along similar lines.

[Kernow Yellow]

I would hope that the heated exchanges between players and fans show that neither party has given up just yet. I wasn't there on Saturday so can't comment on the performance but I can well imagine that the manner of defeat could have caused anguish and frustration for everyone there. In a sense I'm glad the players didn't just troop quietly past the heat-of-the-moment abuse, as that might have shown they were past caring. What an embarrassing spectacle though - as if things weren't going badly enough.

And even if some of the players are starting to look elsewhere, they'll be well aware that League 2 underachievers and bottlers won't be in particularly high demand in the summer. What happens between now and the end of the season could define their careers. Unless they fancy dropping back into the Conference with Chris Wilder.

I'm feeling as depressed and angry as everyone else, but we're still in contention. It's still all in our own hands and we have to remain positive that we can turn it around again. Save the post-mortems and recriminations for if/when we fall short - I'll be joining in as loudly as anyone. But while we're still in with a shout, I'm dreaming of the play-offs. There's no more margin of error though. It has to happen NOW.

[theox]

Part of the problem seems to be that we have hit a run of games against other teams towards the top of the table.

Therefore, perhaps we are not actually throwing away a play-off place. Perhaps we are just simply not good enough for a play-off place and the position we found ourselves in around New Year was a mix of good fortune and favourable fixtures at that time (I haven't checked!). It could just be that we are now heading down to our more rightful place of about 9th which is where Wilder was an expert at placing us and as this is still Wilder's team it should not be a massive surprise if we end up there.

Having said that though, we are still in the play-off places and have every chance of making it but, if we don't, it will simply be because the team is not good enough.

[ty cobb]

Wilder is gone Ty, whether right or wrong. Effectively, he walked out on us and bottled it. You need to move on, I am afraid. Your posts are all along similar lines.

Thanks Pat as insightful as ever, interesting phase bottled it.

Fact is this is Wilders team and when we finally fall out of the play offs and mathematically can't go up his leaving will be very much part of the conversation as I and a number of people I watch with feel this was the trigger for where the season started going wrong and raises a number of questions about ILs ambition, lots of rumours on Sat that Tisdale was first choice but couldn't agree Compensation with Exeter so we went for the cheap choice, and whatever you think of GW he was a much cheaper choice than some of the other names mentioned as being in the frame.

[recordmeister]

There is a difference between being 'cheap' and fitting a price bracket set by the nature of a L2 business and the budgets which, to be fair to the Board, we don't see until at least 18 months later.

I run my own business. I have a lovely, but humble office in Clerkenwell. I walk past some of the big, glass offices with views of the city on my way in- and out- of work. I even looked at some when choosing the space I'm in now, but couldn't afford any. So I got the best space for what my budget says I can have.

However, it hasn't dented my ambition. I'm not sitting in my 250f square ft office thinking "Gosh, I wish I was in a much bigger place, spending more money, to give out the impression I have ambition." No, I'm here and getting on with it and as my business grows I will look for more office space which fits where I am, not where I want to be.

IL has a budget. Just because 70+ people applied for the job, it doesn't mean they all would have taken it when offered it, nor does it mean they knew what the pay level was. It maybe that SAF came in for an interview, but found the c.XX wasn't the same as what he was on at Man Utd, so walked away after the interview, leaving with a polite "thanks but no thanks" nod. An extreme example, of course, but I get the feeling a lot of football fans feel that 'out of work' managers want back in at any level. Sure, you get the odd one who has been in the Prem or Champ taking jobs down in our league, but that is unusual. Highly unusual.

It might be that GW is actually an 'expensive' option, in terms of being at the top end of IL wanted to spend on a manager. Who knows? If he's good at negotations then he would have walked away with the best contract possible. If he's not, he shouldn't be a football manager charged with looking after contracts.

[Yankee Clipper]

Wilder is gone Ty, whether right or wrong. Effectively, he walked out on us and bottled it. You need to move on, I am afraid. Your posts are all along similar lines.

Thanks Pat as insightful as ever, interesting phase bottled it.

Fact is this is Wilders team and when we finally fall out of the play offs and mathematically can't go up his leaving will be very much part of the conversation as I and a number of people I watch with feel this was the trigger for where the season started going wrong and raises a number of questions about ILs ambition, lots of rumours on Sat that Tisdale was first choice but couldn't agree Compensation with Exeter so we went for the cheap choice, and whatever you think of GW he was a much cheaper choice than some of the other names mentioned as being in the frame.

The problem we have is that speculation of what may have been had Wilder not left is and can only ever be speculation. One thing is certain, promotion was far from guaranteed and capitulation from the position we where in was also a strong possibility under Wilder as well. He did have the previous. I also don't believe that we can pinpoint the rot setting in to the exact date of his departure. Agreed we had beaten Wycombe and Torquay but lets not forget the previous three home games against Plymouth, Scunthorpe and Portsmouth. We were abject and the Portsmouth game annoyed me most. He set us up at home to not get beaten by an a side so lacking in belief that with any amount of invention on our part were ready for the taking.

There was potential for this collapse with or without Wilder, unfortunately there will be those who will only ever see this as black and white.

Wilder played his hand aggressively and had his bluff called. He felt he had no option but to leave. I for one would have been annoyed if IL had folded and given him the extension. He had not as yet this season done enough to warrant it.

We have 6 games left and we need to start by beating Fleetwood Saturday and we can play a part by raising the roof. But I fear there will be that sense of anxiety filling the air.

[Myles Francis]

If we really were #unitedwestand we'd have all got behind Wilder when we were top three letting him go is proving to be a huge mistake and you don't need the benefit of hindsight to see it.

No need for this sort of revisionist BS either. Reading your posts Ty, anyone would think we were ten points clear at the top when Wilder left. As it happens, his last 6 league games yielded 8 points and 4 goals - a run of results which included the home highlights of a stupifyingly negative approach against a basket case Pompey side, and a capitulation to a bang average Plymouth. That's promotion form right there(!). As usual with a Wilder team, the wheelnuts were well and truly loosened and (based on past seasons) I'd be very surprised if Wilder knew where the spanner was. The wheels were coming off, make no mistake. If you want, I could point you to the exact game which broke Wilder psychologically and consigned us to the overly-defensive approach he took to home games. I'll give you a clue though, it wasn't this season.

And, for the record, Tisdale was pretty much the first name mentioned when Wilder left, but he wasn't first choice and compensation wasn't an issue.

[Werthers Original]

Wilder got us out of the Conference and to a decent position in the league but he was never the Messiah. He always had his flaws (all those loan players, Midson or Smalley on the wing), and we may have been in the top three for part of this season but we haven't looked convincing. In fact we've looked a poor side at home for much of the season, but now we're just as bad away! Hopefully Waddock hasn't yet put his own stamp on things and doesn't really believe that Smalley is a winger.