Does IL have a clue?

[Brahma Bull]

Wilder would have got a new contract with promotion. He would have probably got a new contract with 'Heroic' failure in the Play-Offs. All other permutations would have seen him deservedly in my opinion been asked to clear his desk.

Dan makes some excellent points about Wilder but the one that is missing and has wrangled with me is his alleged continued search for another position, throughout the last 18 months. That shows a lack of class and disrespect and I am not talking about asking to speak to Portsmouth with six months left on his contract.

Furthermore from what I could see he never bought into the philosophy and ethos which the club was and is trying to implement.

He did a sterling job for 2.5 years and then it slowly went backwards, both on the pitch and off it. He should be remembered for driving down wages, getting value for money, educating the powers that be that we needed a certain player to achieve promotion back into the league. The rest of it since 2011 we could have done without. Thanks very much but we all needed to move on.

As for pining for him to come back, people are only doing that because of what Lewis has served up. If I was offered the choice of Wilder or Lewis then of course I'd have stuck with Tufty. When the new man does arrive, I am convinced most will be happy to back and support the new direction the club decided to take.

[YF Dan]

How do you line up a decent replacement for a job that isn't available? Think about what you are saying. You are either asking Lenegan to tap up a manager in work, or him ask someone who was out of work to hang on for a job that might not ever come up. And then, what if he'd lined up a replacement, but a better option became available? How would Wilder and his band of loyal devotees on here have felt if IL had been found out to be talking to other managers behind his back?

IL clearly has faith in the structures he's put in place, so therefore he was always going to bide his time. It was only two games ago that folk on here were demanding ML is given the job for the season and being praised for turning our home form around. Too many people watch too much Sky Sports News and play too much Championship Manager, they demand instant success, constantly want new strikers, new managers, chairmen to spunk cash away like it's going out of fashion. We are a skint club with precious few assets. We should be grateful we have a chairman with a realistic vision and at least a semi-grasp on budgets who doesn't hire and fire on a whim.

Back to my favourite subject: Wilder. What if we'd given a three year deal in December, and then, he'd ballsed up yet another promotion push...? He has lots of previous. IL had every right to see how things developed, memories of the past two seasons don't just disappear. The players assure us they are giving their absolute all for Mickey...our tactics haven't changed, the squad if anything is better, so maybe we have just been found out? Would this have happened even if arse-twitchy-bottle-bollocks had stayed? We will never know, because he walked out on his contract.

As I keep saying, Wilder clearly didn't think we were going to go up of he would have stayed, got a nice new contract and something really good on his CV. Instead, he took the easy way out.

He was always going to have a big impact at Noton, he was given a lot of money to spend and they were in a false position anyway. And to be fair, he was a good choice for them in their predicament. He did an amazing job with us in the first 12 months, coming in to a woefully underperforming club and shaking things up, bringing in lots of new players, developing an us against the World attitude... exactly what he's doing there. Fair play to him. But, he'd had his time with us and I don't honestly think he was going to take us any further.

[YF Dan]

Wilder would have got a new contract with promotion. He would have probably got a new contract with 'Heroic' failure in the Play-Offs. All other permutations would have seen him deservedly in my opinion been asked to clear his desk.

Dan makes some excellent points about Wilder but the one that is missing and has wrangled with me is his alleged continued search for another position, throughout the last 18 months. That shows a lack of class and disrespect and I am not talking about asking to speak to Portsmouth with six months left on his contract.

Furthermore from what I could see he never bought into the philosophy and ethos which the club was and is trying to implement.

He did a sterling job for 2.5 years and then it slowly went backwards, both on the pitch and off it. He should be remembered for driving down wages, getting value for money, educating the powers that be that we needed a certain player to achieve promotion back into the league. The rest of it since 2011 we could have done without. Thanks very much but we all needed to move on.

As for pining for him to come back, people are only doing that because of what Lewis has served up. If I was offered the choice of Wilder or Lewis then of course I'd have stuck with Tufty. When the new man does arrive, I am convinced most will be happy to back and support the new direction the club decided to take.

Totally agree.

[Jimski]

Dan, it's not about tapping up managers or offering them jobs, it's about having a shortlist in mind (knowing that your manager is quite likely to leave), and acting fast on that shortlist when the position does become available.

Obviously it's better that we get the right person, but surely it's possible to do that more quickly than we currently are. Otherwise we might well end up throwing away a decent chance of promotion, something that really doesn't come along very often, good manager or no. (At Wilder's rate of just over 17 points per 10 games this season, we'd be on 61 points now, tied with Rochdale, and in with a much better chance, for example).

Even if Mickey Lewis had been appointed officially until the end of the season, I'd actually feel better, because at least it wouldn't feel like we were all just hanging around waiting for something to happen before we could get on properly with our season.

Edit - it's also not about being impatient and wanting Championship Manager type instant success (or whatever). The trouble is more a realisation of how rare success actually is for a club like ours, and thus for us to see a decent chance slipping away isn't easy...

[ty cobb]

Some of the stuff on here beggars belief.

When Wilder left we were two points off the automatic spots and miles clear of 8th. We are now 6 points off these and 4 off 8th who have a game in hand. The name of the game is promotion gentlemen and Wilder leaving is having an adverse impact on our chances for promotion that is why it is proving to be a massive mistake.

And what is all this bollocks about Wilder only having done well in his first 12 months? Forgot promotion at Wembley? Topping the league 2 table earlier this season? It is pretty clear to me that only automatic promotion this season would have washed with some fans and some of those would probably still be moaning about our home record or his chippy nature. With that in mind can you blame him for leaving? IL talked about play offs this season, Wilder was very likely to achieve this and yet no new contract was forthcoming. Should he have waited until the end of the season? Having a family myself I know that if I was in a job where I was performing in line/above expectations and yet no efforts were made to extend my contract beyond the 4 months left I would start looking around and if someone offered my a 3.5 year one on better money I would take it as well, this isn't a fault of Wilder it's a fault of IL. He should have signed him up for another year, the possibility of promotion/play off was too good to waste, and yet it is being wasted.

Look at this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ox ... ._managers look at the win ratio column. Wilder is one of our greatest ever managers he deserved better from IL and he deserved better from some "supporters".

[SmileyMan]

I think Wilder was never likely to fit in with the strategic direction that the board had laid down, namely concentrating on youth and being a seliing club and a preferred destination for higher division apprentices. You only need to look at his actions in seasons prior to this one, and how he's behaved at Northampton. He's a manager who likes to scout around (not with much success) and buy in talent, rather than try and nurture it on the pitch. Maybe if he'd been able to get us to perform a little bit better and been a few points clear at the top at New Year, then perhaps the chairman would have given in to the demands.

By the way, I have no problem with someone trying to press an advantage - all's fair in love, war and employment contracts. Anyone who waits for a pre-agreed negotiation period before asking for more money is, frankly, a mug. If he'd been holding a better hand, he'd have got his way and still be here.

His history shows that he's been a decent upper-League-Two manager, and if we'd had the cash to support his style of management, we might well have already gone up. But we don't and we won't for a while, so it's very important to find the right person to really fit in with how the chairman wants the club to go.

Out of interest, and to move away from some of the acrimony, how would people rank possible improvements in order of priority?

a) Effectiveness (e.g. turning good performances into league points)
b) Attractiveness (e.g. playing good football that increases gate receipts)
c) Value (doing all of this for as little expenditure as possible)

At first glance, a) seems the most important, but without b) and c) it'll be a short-lived trip to League One, because we won't be able to afford to stay there.

Regarding c) it will also be interesting to see how much of a budget IL gives a new manager for any end-of-season loans, if any. I suspect it will be more than Wilder was allowed, but not very much.

[GodalmingYellow]

Some of the stuff on here beggars belief.

When Wilder left we were two points off the automatic spots and miles clear of 8th. We are now 6 points off these and 4 off 8th who have a game in hand. The name of the game is promotion gentlemen and Wilder leaving is having an adverse impact on our chances for promotion that is why it is proving to be a massive mistake.

And what is all this bollocks about Wilder only having done well in his first 12 months? Forgot promotion at Wembley? Topping the league 2 table earlier this season? It is pretty clear to me that only automatic promotion this season would have washed with some fans and some of those would probably still be moaning about our home record or his chippy nature. With that in mind can you blame him for leaving? IL talked about play offs this season, Wilder was very likely to achieve this and yet no new contract was forthcoming. Should he have waited until the end of the season? Having a family myself I know that if I was in a job where I was performing in line/above expectations and yet no efforts were made to extend my contract beyond the 4 months left I would start looking around and if someone offered my a 3.5 year one on better money I would take it as well, this isn't a fault of Wilder it's a fault of IL. He should have signed him up for another year, the possibility of promotion/play off was too good to waste, and yet it is being wasted.

Look at this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ox ... ._managers look at the win ratio column. Wilder is one of our greatest ever managers he deserved better from IL and he deserved better from some "supporters".

I think you are only looking at half the picture Ty.

That we have plummeted of late is not because Wilder left, it is because Lenagan has not put in place a suitable replacement, because ML is not up to the job, nice guy though he may well be. Had we replaced Wilder within a couple of weeks, I would be confident that we would still be near the top. Neither of us will ever be able to prove that one way or the other though.

Yes Wilder can be blamed for leaving and it is entirely down to himself that he did. He agreed a way forward with IL and then shat his pants about it and ran off to anyone who would have him.

[Myles Francis]

Would be interested in a case where a manager left to join a team lower than their current team around this stage of the season and the impact this had. I can only think of one - Atkins at OUFC.

9th April 2012 Steve Evans left Crawley (who were destined for automatic promotion) and went to Rotherham who were 4 points off the play-off spots, and finished 5 points off.

[Myles Francis]

IL clearly has faith in the structures he's put in place, so therefore he was always going to bide his time.

As do I. Lenagan is an admirer of the old Liverpool "Boot Room" philosophy where you have a core at the club which is completely immersed in its culture, and helps to breed talent from within. If you look at the appointments which have been made over the past couple of years, he has taken some large steps in this direction. Mickey will be assistant to whoever comes in (unless Mickey himself decides otherwise), and there's Melville, Allen, Taylor, Brookes, and others in various coaching and development roles at the club. Just as he wants a production line of players coming through the club, he also wants coaches and backroom staff making similar progression. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the manager-after-next is Chris Allen.

[Snake]

IL clearly has faith in the structures he's put in place, so therefore he was always going to bide his time.

As do I. Lenagan is an admirer of the old Liverpool "Boot Room" philosophy where you have a core at the club which is completely immersed in its culture, and helps to breed talent from within. If you look at the appointments which have been made over the past couple of years, he has taken some large steps in this direction. Mickey will be assistant to whoever comes in (unless Mickey himself decides otherwise), and there's Melville, Allen, Taylor, Brookes, and others in various coaching and development roles at the club. Just as he wants a production line of players coming through the club, he also wants coaches and backroom staff making similar progression. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the manager-after-next is Chris Allen.

Liverpool have been relatively crap for years until they appointed/nicked a different manger from abroad (sort of) with a proper and different approach to the way football should be played. Agree that you need the backroom staff stable but a proper No 1. is the key.

[JoeyBeauchamp]

Too many people watch too much Sky Sports News and play too much Championship Manager, they demand instant success, constantly want new strikers, new managers, chairmen to spunk cash away like it's going out of fashion. We are a skint club with precious few assets. We should be grateful we have a chairman with a realistic vision and at least a semi-grasp on budgets who doesn't hire and fire on a whim.

That's a good plan, patronise people who don't agree with you. We're Oxford fans, we don't expect any of that stuff. As you say we need to be realistic and be glad for what we've got - all the more reason to have got behind CW when he was doing pretty well this season. But as Ty says, some fans would only have been content with automatic promotion, preferably guaranteed by Christmas.

[YF Dan]

He walked out on us, despite being under contract.

[GodalmingYellow]

some fans would only have been content with automatic promotion.

And quite right too. At third time of asking with a decent budget, in a crap standard division, and as agreed by Wilder himself in order to get himself a contract extension.

Some fans seem to think Wilder has led us to the Champions League final in 10 minutes, rather than the single promotion from a poxy league, despite the biggest budget ever seen in that division, in 5 years.

Wilder did an OK job. Nothing more. And as soon as the going got tough at the higher level, he lost his bottle.

[Jimski]

He walked out on us, despite being under contract.

I'd have done the same if I'd been given a guaranteed 3 year offer at a time when I only had a few months left on my current contract, and no guarantee of renewal. I'm sure most people would do the same.

[Jimski]

And as soon as the going got tough at the higher level, he lost his bottle.

Not actually sure quite what this means. On the field, he was doing pretty ok - not brilliantly, but well enough to have a reasonable chance of promotion. At the time he left he'd just come out of a dodgy spell over Christmas with a couple of wins. If you mean off the field, yes it would be "tough" to have no job security at all. I'd "lose my bottle" if my job did that to me if I was doing ok at it.