Summer transfers 2019

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Radley Rambler
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Radley Rambler » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Jimski wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:21 pm
Supposedly Chris Cadden was seen in the crowd at the QPR game - no idea of the veracity of this.
He's been training with us for four weeks. I heard today that he'll be on loan to us until January and then he'll be off to Sunderland for the rest of the season. Not my usual reliable source though so let's see.

Dr Bob
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Dr Bob » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:57 pm

According to this:
https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/analysis/ ... rd-united/

He is heading to the Columbus Crew, via a loan at Oxford.

In other news, Blackburn are reportedly interested in re-signing Eastwood:
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/black ... -weakness/

EEK!

Radley Rambler
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Radley Rambler » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:17 pm

Not too worried about the Eastwood scenario. He's under contract and wouldn't command much of a fee so why would we sell? He's also likely to be the reserve keeper there not massively attractive proposition for him. The only concern is that his wife and child have moved back up North. But.....if he really wanted to go, the club could play hardball or at least wait to see if we could get an equivalent replacement.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 am

So Cadden has signed. Motherwell fans aren’t happy:

https://therealefl.co.uk/2019/07/24/abs ... rnational/

If it’s true that this whole Columbus Crew ruse was to stop us paying a proper development fee then that’s pretty poor. I guess we’ll see whether he actually ends up there after this season...

Radley Rambler
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Radley Rambler » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:53 am

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 am
So Cadden has signed. Motherwell fans aren’t happy:

https://therealefl.co.uk/2019/07/24/abs ... rnational/

If it’s true that this whole Columbus Crew ruse was to stop us paying a proper development fee then that’s pretty poor. I guess we’ll see whether he actually ends up there after this season...
I think there's quite a bit of 'sharp practice' in footballing circles. Not my cup of tea but if it's the culture........

slappy
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by slappy » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:12 am

Talking of sharp practice, Marvin Johnson's transfer gets a mention in this article about Middlesbrough's transfers when Gary Monk was in charge, with allegations of Monk's football agent getting involved and inflating the prices paid for players.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/foo ... p-16535755

slappy
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by slappy » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:32 am

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 am
So Cadden has signed. Motherwell fans aren’t happy:

https://therealefl.co.uk/2019/07/24/abs ... rnational/

If it’s true that this whole Columbus Crew ruse was to stop us paying a proper development fee then that’s pretty poor. I guess we’ll see whether he actually ends up there after this season...
I'm no expert on MLS football, but it seems their regular season is March to October, and I think it's been said Columbus Crew already have their quota of foreign players for this season. Which would make sense loaning him out with a recall.

However, when footballers from Ireland / Scotland want to make a move, it's generally to the English leagues rather than the US. Although as a way of saving on a development fee, it presumably means the player /agent can get a higher signing on fee/ wage?

Getting all the international clearances must have been complicated too.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 am

Radley Rambler wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:53 am
Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:43 am
So Cadden has signed. Motherwell fans aren’t happy... If it’s true that this whole Columbus Crew ruse was to stop us paying a proper development fee then that’s pretty poor.
I think there's quite a bit of 'sharp practice' in footballing circles. Not my cup of tea but if it's the culture........
I tend to think that "do as you would be done by" is a good rule for business and for life. What we have done may be permissible, but it's pretty grubby to deny Motherwell a fee when they've earned one. How would we have felt if Brizzle Zitty had come up with this sort of workaround to avoid paying anything for O'Dowda?

I'd also add that Cadden is the third Motherwell player to join us in recent years - and the handling of his transfer may well mean he's our last for a while. If I were them, I'd refuse to answer the 'phone to us about any future player enquiries.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:23 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 am
What we have done may be permissible, but it's pretty grubby to deny Motherwell a fee when they've earned one.
I think you're jumping to conclusions here somewhat. About a month ago KR said that Motherwell had accepted our bid (compensation valuation), but we were waiting for the player to make up his mind.

So if that is true, I think any of these scenarios are possible:

1) Cadden and/or his agent wanted better personal terms than we were offering, and talked Us into a complicated arrangement with the US club to save on compensation and ensure more of the fee went to the player than Motherwell;

2) Columbus Crew made Cadden a better offer than we did (possibly because they don't have to pay compensation), and he chose to go there, but since their season doesn't start till March they loaned him to Us to keep him fit and sharp over the autumn;

3) Another club (eg Sunderland) made Cadden the best personal offer, concocting the arrangement with Columbus Crew to help matters. But in order to make it seem more legitimate they didn't want to take delivery of the player for a while.

None of these are ideal, but some of them reflect worse on other parties than Us. Where he is playing next season (or even after January) might give us a clue to where the truth lies.

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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by OtmoorYellow » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:10 pm

The trouble with the compensation system is that the tribunals are often biased towards higher level teams. We've suffered from teams virtually stealing our stars in the past. Not that it would make using a foreign entity scheme to avoid responsibilities. Motherwell will hardly be flush themselves.

I tend to agree with the treat others as you would wish to be treated proverb. You reap what you sow.

Has anyone checked for any links between OUFC and Columbus, or is the hysteria just sour grapes? If there are no links, why would Columbus bother getting involved?

Cadden looks to be a very good signing. As a result, Sam Long will probably end up as a bit part utility player again I suspect.

From last night, and given the Whyte transfer speculation (though why we would accept £1.5m from Cardiff when we rejected £2m from Forest is a mystery) and the return from long term injury of several decent players, I reckon we are at least 3 good signings light - striker 1, striker 2, centre back. There is a good argument for additional left back cover as well.

Radley Rambler
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Radley Rambler » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:23 am

OtmoorYellow wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:10 pm
The trouble with the compensation system is that the tribunals are often biased towards higher level teams. We've suffered from teams virtually stealing our stars in the past. Not that it would make using a foreign entity scheme to avoid responsibilities. Motherwell will hardly be flush themselves.

I tend to agree with the treat others as you would wish to be treated proverb. You reap what you sow.

Has anyone checked for any links between OUFC and Columbus, or is the hysteria just sour grapes? If there are no links, why would Columbus bother getting involved?

Cadden looks to be a very good signing. As a result, Sam Long will probably end up as a bit part utility player again I suspect.

From last night, and given the Whyte transfer speculation (though why we would accept £1.5m from Cardiff when we rejected £2m from Forest is a mystery) and the return from long term injury of several decent players, I reckon we are at least 3 good signings light - striker 1, striker 2, centre back. There is a good argument for additional left back cover as well.
I think we can safely assume that Forest’s bid was not as generous as some chose to report.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:46 am

Finally some honesty, with the manager admitting that this summer's transfer dealings have not gone as planned, saying: "There’s no point me coming out and saying everything’s perfect".

This is the third consecutive transfer window where he has said at the start that we will look to do our business early, named specific players we're targeting despite promising he wouldn't yet ended up not bringing in the proven goalscorer we've needed since the end of the 2017/18 season. We're also in desperate need of a first-choice centre-back. So much for his comments today that "If I was a fan I’d be sat there going ‘wow, our core looks good’"!

My truce with KR still applies, and we may well have these positions filled by the time the season kicks off. I certainly hope so. But how have we ended up in this situation again?

Dr Bob
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Dr Bob » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:01 am

Kairdiff Exile wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:46 am
Finally some honesty, with the manager admitting that this summer's transfer dealings have not gone as planned, saying: "There’s no point me coming out and saying everything’s perfect".

This is the third consecutive transfer window where he has said at the start that we will look to do our business early, named specific players we're targeting despite promising he wouldn't yet ended up not bringing in the proven goalscorer we've needed since the end of the 2017/18 season. We're also in desperate need of a first-choice centre-back. So much for his comments today that "If I was a fan I’d be sat there going ‘wow, our core looks good’"!

My truce with KR still applies, and we may well have these positions filled by the time the season kicks off. I certainly hope so. But how have we ended up in this situation again?
Quite. Still, at least we are in nowhere near the catastrophic mess that Bolton http://twohundredpercent.net/summer-dis ... strangled/ and Bury http://twohundredpercent.net/summer-dis ... ce-bottom/ are in. At least we are still functioning as a football club (for now).

Dr Bob
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Dr Bob » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:01 pm

The rumours around Whyte going to Cardiff intensify:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49131917

Old Abingdonian
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Re: Summer transfers 2019

Post by Old Abingdonian » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:53 pm

I don't know how we have ended up without key players, but I doubt it is lack of trying.

For example, both Cadden and Browne appeared happy to move to the club, and their current club agreed the deal. Then they got a better offer from elsewhere. In the case of Cadden, his proposed move to Oxford appeared in the Scottish press before it was mentioned by OUFC or rumoured by anyone local. It looks, therefore, that the agent/player have used Oxford's interest to attract interest from clubs elsewhere.

I have no way of knowing whether this has happened more to us than other clubs, and if it has, whether bad luck has played a part.

There are two other possible factors that come to mind:
  • that KR's reputation as a spotter of talent is, ironically, a problem for us. So agents can say to eg. Middlesbrough that Robinson is interested in a player, and the club will give credence to the idea that the player is worth a look / bid
        that we are simply aiming too high - chasing players who are, in fact, Championship players so that we are unlikely to actually land them

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