Sunderland

Anything yellow and blue
Kernow Yellow
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kernow Yellow » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Ancient Colin wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:27 pm
In one of my other lives, I prowl a time trial cycling forum; one of its areas is a "Non-Cyling" area and in that area there is a "Brexit - What Now?" thread (normal threads deal with what's the best tyre pressure for a Continental GT 5000 tubular tyre with Stans anti-puncture, or how many watts saving the reduction in drag resistance from D2Z trip socks gives you over a 10m course). It is now up to 297 pages and 8,857 posts. In the two and a half years it's been in existence I don't think there is a single poster that has changed their mind or position, despite all the arguments, evidence and disputes. I fear it's a topic with so much confirmation bias, echo chamber effects and ideological filters, that rational debate isn't feasible. Count me out here!
Very true. But it’s still the only thread you’ve contributed to for months! [wink etc]. And indeed the longest ‘match’ thread on here for a while. Brexit clearly sells...

Ancient Colin
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Ancient Colin » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:15 am

Hog wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Never mind the score tomorrow, I need to know what's the best tyre pressure for a Continental GT 5000 tubular tyre with Stans anti-puncture.
About 90 is the broad consensus. And 1-2.

Hog
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Hog » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:12 am

Thanks. I guessed as much but it's always good to get advice from a champion!

Geoff
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Geoff » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:09 pm

I think the biggest mistake made by Remainers and Brexiteers alike was to listen to politicians and the media rather than decide based on personal experience over many years.

Dr Bob
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:29 pm

Geoff wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:09 pm
I think the biggest mistake made by Remainers and Brexiteers alike was to listen to politicians and the media rather than decide based on personal experience over many years.
I agree. Apart from Boston and South Holland, all of those parts of the country that Voted Leave, supposedly because of immigration, are united by fact that they have below-average immigrant population shares in their areas. And those two only have immigrant populations at about the national average. The point there, however, is that they jumped from virtually nil to the national average immigration-share in a short period of time.

Research has consistently shown that when asked whether immigration is a problem in their area and in the country as a whole, roughly 4 out of 5 say it is NOT a problem in their area, whilst about 4 out of 5 say it IS a problem in the country as a whole. Why? Because some politicians and large parts of the media have been telling them this, so it must be true - despite the lack of people saying it is a problem IN THEIR EXPERIENCE.

BUT ALSO, to come back to it, those areas also suffer from economic precarity and social exclusion. That fear and anger found an outlet. So the government now wants to pump public money into leave-voting regions. Pity they hadn't done it decades ago, let alone since 2010 and the onset of austerity. Regardless of the impact it might or might not have had on the referendum vote, it would have meant that far fewer UK citizens would have felt let down - and by whom does not matter, they have simply been let down by successive UK governments. It is also ironic that it is this failure of domestic UK policy that led to these, the poorest of UK regions, to be eligible for the greatest support for regional projects via EU funding.

AC - an interesting point (in addition to tyre pressures). The evidence shows that there has been some movement, but not very much at all, regarding the views of those of voted Leave and Remain in the referendum. This nets out, overall, at a VERY slight shift towards Remain. That said, there are two huge movements that have taken place. First, of those who did not vote in the referendum but now express an opinion, the vast majority express support for Remain rather than Leave. Second, since June 23rd 2016, the older population (who voted in the majority to Leave) have been dying at very roughly the same rate that young people (a majority of whom voted Remain) have come of age.

I can argue with people over opinions, but they will always remain opinions. If anybody wants to argue over facts or get more information on facts, please PM me. As Professor of European Economics and Policy it is my job to know more about the EU than all bar a tiny minority of the UK population.

But to other matters - in 35 years of active support for OUFC, and even more years than that of watching football generally, I have never before seen a referee get a standing ovation for giving a decision for the previously disadvantaged side (in this case, a yellow card on about the hour mark). Even one or two Sunderland reports had to admit that we got the shitty end of the referee's stick (not their phrase, but the point remains). The extent to which everybody around us in the SSU, during the match and at half time (including the RadOx people across the aisle from me) were laying into the ref so much says it all. So, he was fast-tracked into the FL after only one year in the Conference. I think I can safely speak for everyone when I suggest that we know where he needs to be fast-tracked to now...

It was a frustrating match to watch and, given the season we have had, it is easy and all too tempting to say that we should have taken at least one or two first half chances. But I also think their keeper played a blinder. They also resorted, early on, to roughing up players like Whyte, without punishment, that repeatedly broke up our rhythm and attacking opportunities.

Was it a foul in the build-up to our goal? Obviously not, because neither the referee, nor the lino (who was right alongside the incident) gave it. But how deliciously ironic it was that our goal followed a disputed decision, after the best part of 90 minutes when Sunderland got all the breaks of (non)decision by one of the worst referees ever to have disgraced the Grenoble Road pitch.

The only question is whether we can maintain the recent levels of performance, when not playing one of the very top sides. The little bit I saw of Sinclair, especially his quality in creating space for himself then setting up the goal, looks really promising.

Jimski
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Jimski » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:44 pm

I actually really enjoyed the game (despite the referee, who seemed to spend the first half giving every decision Sunderland's way, and the second half giving everything our way). Sunderland are a decent side, but we played really well, and even when we were 1-0 down the performance was giving me hope for the rest of the season. And then came the equaliser - utterly deserved on balance of play. Anyway, it was far better than most games I've seen this season, that's for sure.

Werthers Original
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Werthers Original » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:59 pm

The ref certainly had a ‘game of two halves’.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:53 am

My first game of 2019, and an entertaining one to watch.

PROS
Very impressed by Jordan Graham's contribution. A real live wire and was torturing their full-back for large chunks of the game. Not yet convinced he'll get many goals, but he's the player that I thought Carruthers or Holmes could have been, unlocking defences and creating chances for others to finish.
Another impressive display from John Mousinho, who led the team well and was noticeably more vocal than I've seen in previous games.
As a whole team, I thought we battled to stay in it during the first half and fought our way back in the second, in ways that we simply wouldn't have done back in the autumn. That gives me strong hope that we can stay up this season.


CONS
Dickie seems to be continuing his slow evolution into a Brian Wilsterman de nos jours. He'll look comfortable, strong and solid for 30 minutes, and then do something utterly stupid and hand the opposition a chance. I'm increasingly nervous about our defence when he's in it. The lack of alternatives in that position is clearly a problem if you can't rest a player who's having an iffy spell.
Nelson had a good game on Saturday, but even then gives off the air of a man who's playing out time and will be off in the summer. He'll be hard to replace, which does raise the question of whether we ought to have signed a centre back in January to help bed them in and provide cover as well (see above).
My main gripe - predictably - related to the antics of a Mr Karl Robinson. Tactically, he did well, and our shape and tempo in the second half were much better. But we could have been even better still if he spent more time communicating with his players and analysing the game rather than haranguing officials! Every minute, he was in the fourth official's ear or hollering at the linesman. It looked unprofessional and undignified, and set a poor example to the players who were too often aping what they saw from the touchlines.
Let's also have a moment's reflection on our dreadful stadium. I don't get to many home games (this was only my third this season), and I'd hoped a big crowd might have made the place feel a bit more pleasant. But it's everything that's wrong with modern football, isn't it? A three-sided plastic ground with no decent infrastructure around it, with the smell of sh*t wafting over from the sewage works and not even anywhere half-decent to get a pint. The sooner we're out of it, the better.

All of that sounds as though there was more the deficit than credit column, but I was heartened by a good point against a side who really ought to be better than us given their budget. Sunderland seemed to think they could win without getting out of second gear - but if they played for 90 minutes like they did for the ten minutes after the equaliser, they'd have been a danger.

VERDICT: We'll stay up. Just.

Myles Francis
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Myles Francis » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:31 am

Dr Bob wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:29 pm
If anybody wants to argue over facts or get more information on facts, please PM me. As Professor of European Economics and Policy it is my job to know more about the EU than all bar a tiny minority of the UK population.
Pah. Experts, what do they know?! :wink:

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:33 pm

I thought we started a bit nervily, particularly the centre backs, and it wasn't a surprise when Sunderland scored from a corner, as we weren't dealing very well with them and they'd had quite a few already. However, by that point we should have been at least 2-0 up, as the chances that fell to Ruffels and Graham were squandered, and Mackie's header drew a very fine save. Only ourselves to blame for being behind at half-time really. We'd played some nice football but were reliant on speedy breaks - Sunderland had had more of the general play.

For 20 minutes after the break we were really excellent, snapping into tackles, competing for and winning second balls in midfield, pressing high up the pitch, and clearly the better team. Whyte and Graham, obviously, were the main tormenters, but Mousinho and Brannagan made the midfield really competitive, and even Nelson and Dickie started looking really assured. So it was a real disappointment as the game looked like petering out into a home defeat, and a huge relief when the equaliser finally came. It was particularly satisfying to see the Mackems' timewasting go unrewarded, and that a potentially dubious refereeing decision ultimately counted in our favour after the ridiculously harsh officiating we'd been on the end of for most of the match.

Good result as it is, I wasn't quite as positive afterwards as many I spoke to. 'Too good to go down' was a paraphrasing of pretty much everything I heard, which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Yes, we have bags of quality on the wings, but we're still not taking our chances. And while draws against the top teams in entertaining matches seem encouraging, they won't do us much good if we don't beat the teams around us. Saturday's line-up was almost exactly the same as those on Boxing Day and New Year's Day - any repeat of that sequence of games after Christmas and we're in really serious trouble.

A final word for Jerome Sinclair. I thought he looked off the pace after coming on, but that was really smart work and clear thinking to set up Marcus Browne for the goal. As for the other new boy, Jonte Smith, I wonder whether he thought he'd be more involved on a match day than just doing the half-time draw...

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:52 pm

Completely agree with that assessment, KY, and I thought your last two paras were particularly illuminating:
Kernow Yellow wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:33 pm
Good result as it is, I wasn't quite as positive afterwards as many I spoke to. 'Too good to go down' was a paraphrasing of pretty much everything I heard, which is a very dangerous way of thinking. Yes, we have bags of quality on the wings, but we're still not taking our chances. And while draws against the top teams in entertaining matches seem encouraging, they won't do us much good if we don't beat the teams around us. Saturday's line-up was almost exactly the same as those on Boxing Day and New Year's Day - any repeat of that sequence of games after Christmas and we're in really serious trouble.

A final word for Jerome Sinclair. I thought he looked off the pace after coming on, but that was really smart work and clear thinking to set up Marcus Browne for the goal. As for the other new boy, Jonte Smith, I wonder whether he thought he'd be more involved on a match day than just doing the half-time draw...
I really do worry that if we are relegated, our failure to sign a proven Div 3 goalscorer will be the factor that costs us. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, that was the one area which we all knew to be a problem when last season's retained list was announced. It is genuinely baffling that we had two transfers windows in which to fix the problem and haven't*.

* Unless Sinclair and/or Smith show themselves capable of getting 10 goals before the end of the season, which I'm sure we all hope they will but which their stats hitherto suggest is unlikely.

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