Should I get a season ticket next season

[Isaac]

Useful stuff Terry but realistically you're wasting your time posting on this forum. Who's ever going to know what you are proposing? Suggest you get in touch with the club direct re yr concerns. I'd say your best point of contact would be Simon Lenagan.

Ps OxVox had a good session with S Lenagan and Mick Brown last night, (Nick Merry was there for the first part of the meeting as well. Am not going to elaborate on what was discussed on this forum as others on the committee are stilll to write up the notes. And we have responsibility to report to OxVox members first and foremost of course. Not the RO forum members.

Keeping it relevant, we clearly indicated to the club that something creative and innovative had to be done with season tickets next year in order to stop significant erosion on sales. They know it's a worry as well I'd say.

They were left in no doubt as to the level of supporter discontent with ticketing packages,especially for families, in terms of seating areas and pricing etc. And of course the poor on field product.

Personally I don't think adult ticket prices should be cut. Commercial suicide. Adult ST prices have been frozen for 3 years have they not?

But something needs to be done about the youngsters.

So OxVox wants fans/members to contact the club directly with ideas rather than co-ordinate them on their behalf? Have you read your constitution recently?

Can you explain exactly how cutting prices would be commercial suicide? What analysis have you done to come to this conclusion? Everybody who has posted on this thread indicating that they will not or might not renew ST's has mentioned pricing.

I'd be interested in finding out why cutting prices would be commercial suicide, as an OxVox member should I ask OxVox directly or phone up Nick Merry?

For information, for the last 2 season Macc Town have had pay on the day prices of a tenner for adults, free for under 12's and a fiver for 12-15's - why don't the club or OxVox speak to them about whether it's been commerical suicide or not? Obviously it's terrace prices but the principal has been tested, surely we should try and learn from other clubs.

I suspect it hasn't made a huge amount of difference and attendances have been up a bit but not hugely. It's a difficult area round here with so many successful clubs nearby but the prices encourage the floating supporter (such as myself) along much more often than previously.

[GodalmingYellow]

Useful stuff Terry but realistically you're wasting your time posting on this forum. Who's ever going to know what you are proposing? Suggest you get in touch with the club direct re yr concerns. I'd say your best point of contact would be Simon Lenagan.

Ps OxVox had a good session with S Lenagan and Mick Brown last night, (Nick Merry was there for the first part of the meeting as well. Am not going to elaborate on what was discussed on this forum as others on the committee are stilll to write up the notes. And we have responsibility to report to OxVox members first and foremost of course. Not the RO forum members.

Keeping it relevant, we clearly indicated to the club that something creative and innovative had to be done with season tickets next year in order to stop significant erosion on sales. They know it's a worry as well I'd say.

They were left in no doubt as to the level of supporter discontent with ticketing packages,especially for families, in terms of seating areas and pricing etc. And of course the poor on field product.

Personally I don't think adult ticket prices should be cut. Commercial suicide. Adult ST prices have been frozen for 3 years have they not?

But something needs to be done about the youngsters.

You are joking of course.

Posting on a forum, frequently inhabited with OxVox committee members such as yourself, represents my input.

Why would the club listen to what I, as one individual, has to say?

The whole point of OxVox is taking in members views and feeding them to the club. Without that there is no point to OxVox existing.

I'm flabergasted that you aren't doing this automatically. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that OxVox would already be taking on the views of members and feeding them through to the club. A suggestion I should do this myself is, well, beyond belief, and I hope I have mis-read what you were trying to say.

Turning to the commercial aspect, in my view, and with the benefit of my experience of failing businesses, it would be commercial suicide for the club not to drop prices. Sure ST prices have remained static for a couple of years, but they were already too high in League 2, and they were not cut following relegation. That's why we need a re-alignment now.

The club under various different owners, has all but eradicated any goodwill and has to re-generate it. The most effective ways of doing that in th efirst instance are pricing and marketing.

The suggestions I have made do not represent massive drops in price per ticket, but they do represent prices at an attractive level and at a marketable level. See the county's highest level of football for a tenner is something which cuold easily be sold to the masses.

Even with my proposed cuts in prices, I can see a fall in ST numbers to maybe 2500. Without such cuts, I could easily see ST sales dropping to below 2000, and maybe significantly below that.

Better to sell more tickets at a lower price now, as that not only fills more seats and gives a feeling of the club being successful, but ti also draws in more supporters for the future when prices can be increased on the back of success.

[Ascension Ox]

Useful stuff Terry but realistically you're wasting your time posting on this forum. Who's ever going to know what you are proposing? Suggest you get in touch with the club direct re yr concerns. I'd say your best point of contact would be Simon Lenagan.

Ps OxVox had a good session with S Lenagan and Mick Brown last night, (Nick Merry was there for the first part of the meeting as well. Am not going to elaborate on what was discussed on this forum as others on the committee are stilll to write up the notes. And we have responsibility to report to OxVox members first and foremost of course. Not the RO forum members.

Keeping it relevant, we clearly indicated to the club that something creative and innovative had to be done with season tickets next year in order to stop significant erosion on sales. They know it's a worry as well I'd say.

They were left in no doubt as to the level of supporter discontent with ticketing packages,especially for families, in terms of seating areas and pricing etc. And of course the poor on field product.

Personally I don't think adult ticket prices should be cut. Commercial suicide. Adult ST prices have been frozen for 3 years have they not?

But something needs to be done about the youngsters.

So OxVox wants fans/members to contact the club directly with ideas rather than co-ordinate them on their behalf? Have you read your constitution recently?

Can you explain exactly how cutting prices would be commercial suicide? What analysis have you done to come to this conclusion? Everybody who has posted on this thread indicating that they will not or might not renew ST's has mentioned pricing.

It's my personal view. Much as we don't like to admit it we are living in inflationary times.

I don't see why GY contacting the club directly is not allowed. Irrespective of his membership of OxVox.

All he has to do is to cut and paste his well marshalled initial posting.

[Mally]

Useful stuff Terry but realistically you're wasting your time posting on this forum. Who's ever going to know what you are proposing? Suggest you get in touch with the club direct re yr concerns. I'd say your best point of contact would be Simon Lenagan.

Ps OxVox had a good session with S Lenagan and Mick Brown last night, (Nick Merry was there for the first part of the meeting as well. Am not going to elaborate on what was discussed on this forum as others on the committee are stilll to write up the notes. And we have responsibility to report to OxVox members first and foremost of course. Not the RO forum members.

Keeping it relevant, we clearly indicated to the club that something creative and innovative had to be done with season tickets next year in order to stop significant erosion on sales. They know it's a worry as well I'd say.

They were left in no doubt as to the level of supporter discontent with ticketing packages,especially for families, in terms of seating areas and pricing etc. And of course the poor on field product.

Personally I don't think adult ticket prices should be cut. Commercial suicide. Adult ST prices have been frozen for 3 years have they not?

But something needs to be done about the youngsters.

So OxVox wants fans/members to contact the club directly with ideas rather than co-ordinate them on their behalf? Have you read your constitution recently?

Can you explain exactly how cutting prices would be commercial suicide? What analysis have you done to come to this conclusion? Everybody who has posted on this thread indicating that they will not or might not renew ST's has mentioned pricing.

It's my personal view. Much as we don't like to admit it we are living in inflationary times.

I don't see why GY contacting the club directly is not allowed. Irrespective of his membership of OxVox.

All he has to do is to cut and paste his well marshalled initial posting.

I would dispute your &quotinflationary times&quot assertion but that takes us away from the main issue here.

There's no reason why individuals can't and shouldn't contact the club but you seem to be saying that OxVox either has no more influence or potential than individuals or you don't believe it should be representing its members views to the club.

The first may be true in terms of direct influence (although there's plenty of indirect ways to influence somebody) but the second sounds like a cop out.

[Ascension Ox]

So OxVox wants fans/members to contact the club directly with ideas rather than co-ordinate them on their behalf? Have you read your constitution recently?

Can you explain exactly how cutting prices would be commercial suicide? What analysis have you done to come to this conclusion? Everybody who has posted on this thread indicating that they will not or might not renew ST's has mentioned pricing.

It's my personal view. Much as we don't like to admit it we are living in inflationary times.

I don't see why GY contacting the club directly is not allowed. Irrespective of his membership of OxVox.

All he has to do is to cut and paste his well marshalled initial posting.

I would dispute your &quotinflationary times&quot assertion but that takes us away from the main issue here.

There's no reason why individuals can't and shouldn't contact the club but you seem to be saying that OxVox either has no more influence or potential than individuals or you don't believe it should be representing its members views to the club.

The first may be true in terms of direct influence (although there's plenty of indirect ways to influence somebody) but the second sounds like a cop out.

Filled your petrol tank up recently? Bought a loaf of bread?

Don't know what you mean about a cop out. If you read my earlier post you'd see we met the club yesterday and next years pricing was an important part of that meeting .

GY had the time to make OxVox aware of his input on ST prices. We, of course, asked for members views on the issues in advance in a separate email to them. As it happens a good deal of what GY has raised was raised yesterday. We hope the club responds suitably.

He chose to make his interesting views available, on lets face it, a little read fan's forum. He would be better off either making OV aware of his views in advance of our meeting. Or, alternatively, contacting the club direct. I hope that makes things clearer.

Have no wish to get into a p*****g competition here.

[trevor l]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Hog, though I'm still undecided about next season, and won't decide until prices and ticket packages are announced for next season.

The prices are much too high for adults, and should have been lowered significantly when we were relegated.

The prices for kids are ludicrous and the concept of a family area is pretty outdated. Fans like to choose where they watch from, which will often be half way line or behind the goal. It is simply discouraging to shove adults with kids in a dark corner where they can't be seen (and can't see).

Get rid of matchday premium, get rid of advance booking fee and credit card fee. These are all discouragements to buying tickets.

Get a competitively priced ST loan scheme. The interest rate on the existing scheme is exorbitant.

The way the club is being run by WPL, and the disconnection of WPL from the fans has left me feeling very disenfranchised from the club this season.

I don't know if next season will be the club's last, but it could be unless there are major changes in the way the club is run. Certainly if there is no success next season, I can't see WPL hanging around.

To be successful, it is vital that the club get bodies through the gates.

A pricing structure such as below is what I think is necessary:


Season tickets
________Primary school__Secondary/Students/OAPs_______Adult
East__________£50______________£100________________£200
North/SSL_____£50______________£100________________£250
SSU__________£50______________£100________________£300

Match tickets (1/20th of ST price)
East__________£2.50_____________£5__________________£10
North/SSL_____£2.50_____________£5_________________£12.50
SSU__________£2.50_____________£5__________________£15

I would like to see a family ticket introduced for 2 adults and 2 kids which gives a 10% discount, and a 1 adult and 1 kid arrangement which gives a 5% discount.

I would also do away with the pay later pay more for STs scheme. If the ST prices are set sensibly as above, there will be early demand anyway to get seats sitting together.

As others have said many times, I would like to see unreserved seating in North Stand and cash on turnstiles for that stand.

And I would like to see a membership scheme which gives a 5% discount for booking 10 ticket vouchers.

The club desperately needs to go back to its roots and stop trying to pretend to be a &quotbig club&quot and earn its success.

What happened to your daughter Hog?

There is a need for a radical and creative approach to the pricing and the sales offer next season to avoid s.t. sales meltdown. I think that much is clear and has been conveyed to the club by the trust. It's an ongoing discussion.

We haven't gone into a lot of detail yet, but our initial comments (based on our own thoughts and what members have told us) have focused on reducing junior and student prices, introducing family tickets, extending junior/family areas, removing on the day surcharges, cash entry, and adding value to s.t.s by concessions and offers.

Fundamentally to buy a s.t. (leaving aside the nutters like myself who will buy one no matter what) people need to be convinced about the prospects for a good season on the pitch. The club will need to demonstrate it is setting its stall out properly for a bash at promotion. How things shape up over the next 10 games matters, as do transfer market moves. So much so obvious.

But there is of course a price issue too. For many people buying a s.t. is a matter of affordability. Much of the comment that has come our way about not renewing due to the quality of the football has rather than prices. Most of the comment that has concerned prices has been about juniors and families, and our comments passed on to date reflect that.

We haven’t thought so much yet about the base price for adults so GY’s posting is timely. The trust should act to take these and other sensible suggestions and form a view to put to the club. Of course GY is free to put his view to the club himself, but one of the points of a trust is to act collectively and provide a view reflecting the balance of its members.

GY's premise that the general price level is too high and is a disincentive to renewing may be fairly widely shared. I suspect it wouldn't be such a concern if we were winning. But we're not, and price comes into view as a bigger issue.

GY takes the view that loss of s.t. numbers (and loss of revenue overall) can be best minimised by reductions of around 20-25% on s.t.s and higher reductions on on the day prices (as high as 37% on East Stand tickets).

Maybe. To make such a change is not without risk - if numbers fall despite the change then there is a double effect. But certainly we are paying quite a high price for the product on display - football in the fifth tier. That said we are not fantastically higher than others e.g. £14 at FGR. But if we do nothing but freeze prices, there may well be a substantial fall in sales and hence revenue whatever the goodies on offer. It's not an easy decision.

I’ll say what I think. My OxVox committee colleagues may not agree with me and I may be out of line with general opinion. But here goes.

First I don’t think there would be substantial loss of SSU denizens by maintaining the prices there at their present level. Most of us up there can afford it price cuts would be throwing away money. People there may pack up watching OUFC, or downgrade to infrequent attenders for other reasons, but it won’t be fundamentally a price decision for many.

East Stand however is another matter and is more price sensitive. I would actually keep SSU prices as they are, trim SSL by say 15% and East Stand by 30%. Increase the differentials. This would give, say prices of 370/270/190 and break a symbolic £200 barrier for the East Stand which would be a good line for a good sales pitch.

For on the day prices 20/15/10 is my suggestion for the same reason. Fleece the SSU, I say!

[trevor l]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Hog, though I'm still undecided about next season, and won't decide until prices and ticket packages are announced for next season.

The prices are much too high for adults, and should have been lowered significantly when we were relegated.

The prices for kids are ludicrous and the concept of a family area is pretty outdated. Fans like to choose where they watch from, which will often be half way line or behind the goal. It is simply discouraging to shove adults with kids in a dark corner where they can't be seen (and can't see).

Get rid of matchday premium, get rid of advance booking fee and credit card fee. These are all discouragements to buying tickets.

Get a competitively priced ST loan scheme. The interest rate on the existing scheme is exorbitant.

The way the club is being run by WPL, and the disconnection of WPL from the fans has left me feeling very disenfranchised from the club this season.

I don't know if next season will be the club's last, but it could be unless there are major changes in the way the club is run. Certainly if there is no success next season, I can't see WPL hanging around.

To be successful, it is vital that the club get bodies through the gates.

A pricing structure such as below is what I think is necessary:


Season tickets
________Primary school__Secondary/Students/OAPs_______Adult
East__________£50______________£100________________£200
North/SSL_____£50______________£100________________£250
SSU__________£50______________£100________________£300

Match tickets (1/20th of ST price)
East__________£2.50_____________£5__________________£10
North/SSL_____£2.50_____________£5_________________£12.50
SSU__________£2.50_____________£5__________________£15

I would like to see a family ticket introduced for 2 adults and 2 kids which gives a 10% discount, and a 1 adult and 1 kid arrangement which gives a 5% discount.

I would also do away with the pay later pay more for STs scheme. If the ST prices are set sensibly as above, there will be early demand anyway to get seats sitting together.

As others have said many times, I would like to see unreserved seating in North Stand and cash on turnstiles for that stand.

And I would like to see a membership scheme which gives a 5% discount for booking 10 ticket vouchers.

The club desperately needs to go back to its roots and stop trying to pretend to be a &quotbig club&quot and earn its success.

What happened to your daughter Hog?

There is a need for a radical and creative approach to the pricing and the sales offer next season to avoid s.t. sales meltdown. I think that much is clear and has been conveyed to the club by the trust. It's an ongoing discussion.

We haven't gone into a lot of detail yet, but our initial comments (based on our own thoughts and what members have told us) have focused on reducing junior and student prices, introducing family tickets, extending junior/family areas, removing on the day surcharges, cash entry, and adding value to s.t.s by concessions and offers.

Fundamentally to buy a s.t. (leaving aside the nutters like myself who will buy one no matter what) people need to be convinced about the prospects for a good season on the pitch. The club will need to demonstrate it is setting its stall out properly for a bash at promotion. How things shape up over the next 10 games matters, as do transfer market moves. So much so obvious.

But there is of course a price issue too. For many people buying a s.t. is a matter of affordability. Much of the comment that has come our way about not renewing due to the quality of the football has rather than prices. Most of the comment that has concerned prices has been about juniors and families, and our comments passed on to date reflect that.

We haven’t thought so much yet about the base price for adults so GY’s posting is timely. The trust should act to take these and other sensible suggestions and form a view to put to the club. Of course GY is free to put his view to the club himself, but one of the points of a trust is to act collectively and provide a view reflecting the balance of its members.

GY's premise that the general price level is too high and is a disincentive to renewing may be fairly widely shared. I suspect it wouldn't be such a concern if we were winning. But we're not, and price comes into view as a bigger issue.

GY takes the view that loss of s.t. numbers (and loss of revenue overall) can be best minimised by reductions of around 20-25% on s.t.s and higher reductions on on the day prices (as high as 37% on East Stand tickets).

Maybe. To make such a change is not without risk - if numbers fall despite the change then there is a double effect. But certainly we are paying quite a high price for the product on display - football in the fifth tier. That said we are not fantastically higher than others e.g. £14 at FGR. But if we do nothing but freeze prices, there may well be a substantial fall in sales and hence revenue whatever the goodies on offer. It's not an easy decision.

I’ll say what I think. My OxVox committee colleagues may not agree with me and I may be out of line with general opinion. But here goes.

First I don’t think there would be substantial loss of SSU denizens by maintaining the prices there at their present level. Most of us up there can afford it price cuts would be throwing away money. People there may pack up watching OUFC, or downgrade to infrequent attenders for other reasons, but it won’t be fundamentally a price decision for many.

East Stand however is another matter and is more price sensitive. I would actually keep SSU prices as they are, trim SSL by say 15% and East Stand by 30%. Increase the differentials. This would give, say prices of 370/270/190 and break a symbolic £200 barrier for the East Stand which would be a good line for a good sales pitch.

For on the day prices 20/15/10 is my suggestion for the same reason. Fleece the SSU, I say!

[trevor l]

What's the message limit on this board?

Here's the rest of my effort.
-----


Of course GY is free to put his view to the club himself, but one of the points of a trust is to act collectively and provide a view reflecting the balance of its members.

GY's premise that the general price level is too high and is a disincentive to renewing may be fairly widely shared. I suspect it wouldn't be such a concern if we were winning. But we're not, and price comes into view as a bigger issue.

GY takes the view that loss of s.t. numbers (and loss of revenue overall) can be best minimised by reductions of around 20-25% on s.t.s and higher reductions on on the day prices (as high as 37% on East Stand tickets).

Maybe. To make such a change is not without risk - if numbers fall despite the change then there is a double effect. But certainly we are paying quite a high price for the product on display - football in the fifth tier. That said we are not fantastically higher than others e.g. £14 at FGR. But if we do nothing but freeze prices, there may well be a substantial fall in sales and hence revenue whatever the goodies on offer. It's not an easy decision.

I’ll say what I think. My OxVox committee colleagues may not agree with me and I may be out of line with general opinion. But here goes.

First I don’t think there would be substantial loss of SSU denizens by maintaining the prices there at their present level. Most of us up there can afford it price cuts would be throwing away money. People there may pack up watching OUFC, or downgrade to infrequent attenders for other reasons, but it won’t be fundamentally a price decision for many.

East Stand however is another matter and is more price sensitive. I would actually keep SSU prices as they are, trim SSL by say 15% and East Stand by 30%. Increase the differentials. This would give, say prices of 370/270/190 and break a symbolic £200 barrier for the East Stand which would be a good line for a good sales pitch.

For on the day prices 20/15/10 is my suggestion for the same reason. Fleece the SSU, I say!

[Hog]

Fleece the SSU, I say!

You mean fleece them even more? Brilliant! That's cheered me up no end.

[GodalmingYellow]

It's my personal view. Much as we don't like to admit it we are living in inflationary times.

I don't see why GY contacting the club directly is not allowed. Irrespective of his membership of OxVox.

All he has to do is to cut and paste his well marshalled initial posting.

I would dispute your &quotinflationary times&quot assertion but that takes us away from the main issue here.

There's no reason why individuals can't and shouldn't contact the club but you seem to be saying that OxVox either has no more influence or potential than individuals or you don't believe it should be representing its members views to the club.

The first may be true in terms of direct influence (although there's plenty of indirect ways to influence somebody) but the second sounds like a cop out.

Filled your petrol tank up recently? Bought a loaf of bread?

Don't know what you mean about a cop out. If you read my earlier post you'd see we met the club yesterday and next years pricing was an important part of that meeting .

GY had the time to make OxVox aware of his input on ST prices. We, of course, asked for members views on the issues in advance in a separate email to them. As it happens a good deal of what GY has raised was raised yesterday. We hope the club responds suitably.

He chose to make his interesting views available, on lets face it, a little read fan's forum. He would be better off either making OV aware of his views in advance of our meeting. Or, alternatively, contacting the club direct. I hope that makes things clearer.

Have no wish to get into a p*****g competition here.

I'm afraid the inflationary argument is irrelevant because the product is inferior quality. You don't expect to pay the same when switching from Heinz' to Tesco's baked beans just because there is inflation. If we were still in League 2 and the goodwill and good name of the club had been maintained, that argument would be sound, but in the present circumstances it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean by &quotGY had the time to make OxVox aware...&quot this implies there was a time limit for telling OxVox my views and that it should have been done by directly informing OxVox. If so, I'm afriad I fundamentally disgaree. OxVox can and should collect views from known members in whatever way those views are made known to OxVox, be it on here, direct email, OxVox message board, face to face conversaiton or whatever.

As for timing of my views relative to your meeting with the club, given that advance warning of this wasn't given until 2 days ago, that doesn't stack up either. Not only that, but I have made these views clear on here and direct to OxVox many times previously.

[OUFC4eva]

I think Mally makes an excellent point about the role OxVox could play
in the season ticket packages for 2008/2009.

OxVox could produce a document for pricing tickets for next season
and present it to the club with the reasons for the various pricing structures.I also feel that the key areas are families and young people in what are difficult times economically.

However the document needs to be costed and produced in context of the clubs overall plans for the playing budget. The club will want to &quotyield&quot a certain figure for season ticket revenue and an attractive early bird scheme is a must. I would hand over £299 NOW for a ST working out at £13 per match in SSU !

[GodalmingYellow]

What's the message limit on this board?

Here's the rest of my effort.
-----


Of course GY is free to put his view to the club himself, but one of the points of a trust is to act collectively and provide a view reflecting the balance of its members.

GY's premise that the general price level is too high and is a disincentive to renewing may be fairly widely shared. I suspect it wouldn't be such a concern if we were winning. But we're not, and price comes into view as a bigger issue.

GY takes the view that loss of s.t. numbers (and loss of revenue overall) can be best minimised by reductions of around 20-25% on s.t.s and higher reductions on on the day prices (as high as 37% on East Stand tickets).

Maybe. To make such a change is not without risk - if numbers fall despite the change then there is a double effect. But certainly we are paying quite a high price for the product on display - football in the fifth tier. That said we are not fantastically higher than others e.g. £14 at FGR. But if we do nothing but freeze prices, there may well be a substantial fall in sales and hence revenue whatever the goodies on offer. It's not an easy decision.

I’ll say what I think. My OxVox committee colleagues may not agree with me and I may be out of line with general opinion. But here goes.

First I don’t think there would be substantial loss of SSU denizens by maintaining the prices there at their present level. Most of us up there can afford it price cuts would be throwing away money. People there may pack up watching OUFC, or downgrade to infrequent attenders for other reasons, but it won’t be fundamentally a price decision for many.

East Stand however is another matter and is more price sensitive. I would actually keep SSU prices as they are, trim SSL by say 15% and East Stand by 30%. Increase the differentials. This would give, say prices of 370/270/190 and break a symbolic £200 barrier for the East Stand which would be a good line for a good sales pitch.

For on the day prices 20/15/10 is my suggestion for the same reason. Fleece the SSU, I say!

That's not right though Trevor. It wouldn't be a double hit of reducing numbers and reducing prices, because the numbers are going to fall anyway.Its about how to prevent an even bigger decline, coupled with the need to get people come back in much larger numbers and re-establish the club as people's prime leisure pursuit.

Your numbers for comparisons are wrong as well (there are statistics, statistics and statisticians!). I paid £319 for my SSU ticket last year. A price of £300 would be a reduction of just 6% on last year. Given that the vast majority of STs are sold in the early discuonted period, your figures are extremely misleading.

I dno't think you can assume that SSU supporters are any better off than anyone else, nor rely on their goodwill to any greater extent than other supporters. That would also be commerical suicide. If someone like me finds it hard to justify the cost, I can assure you there will be many more who find it harder still.

Compairson of prices with the likes of FGR is only useful if you want to end up with crowd numbers the same as FGR, which defeats the object of your argument. If FGR reduced their prices, I'm sure their crowds would increase.

[trevor l]

That's not right though Trevor. It wouldn't be a double hit of reducing numbers and reducing prices, because the numbers are going to fall anyway.Its about how to prevent an even bigger decline, coupled with the need to get people come back in much larger numbers and re-establish the club as people's prime leisure pursuit.

Your numbers for comparisons are wrong as well (there are statistics, statistics and statisticians!). I paid £319 for my SSU ticket last year. A price of £300 would be a reduction of just 6% on last year. Given that the vast majority of STs are sold in the early discuonted period, your figures are extremely misleading.

I dno't think you can assume that SSU supporters are any better off than anyone else, nor rely on their goodwill to any greater extent than other supporters. That would also be commerical suicide. If someone like me finds it hard to justify the cost, I can assure you there will be many more who find it harder still.

Compairson of prices with the likes of FGR is only useful if you want to end up with crowd numbers the same as FGR, which defeats the object of your argument. If FGR reduced their prices, I'm sure their crowds would increase.

Sorry, but if (and I stress if) sales fall and the price per ticket falls then there would be a double effect. If price per ticket stays the same and sales fall by the same amount, the loss is less. That's all I was saying. Ergo, to make sense a reduction has to work (i.e. reduce the loss of numbers).

Your figures ignored the early bird discount (I think because you want to drop it), so did mine. 'Extremely misleading' is OTT forum speak.

'Justify the cost' is the key phrase in the next para. My contention was that SSU fans are, by and large, not so financially pressed as East Standers and hence prices alone will have less of an influence. 'Justify' involves assessing the football experience on a value for money basis, not on a can I afford it basis. In fact the prices you posted yourself showed an increasing % reduction and less in SSU than elsewhere so I can't see the point you're making in reference to my comments.

As for FGR, my passing reference was merely to illustrate that our prices are not substantially higher than most in BSP.

[GodalmingYellow]

I rather expected a reply along those lines Trevor.

You have omitted to mention your inherent assumption that if prices remain the same, sales will fall to the same extent as if prices are reduced, which to be honest isn't really cutting the reality mustard.

OK you might describe it as a &quotdouble hit&quot for effect, but the question is whether that double hit would amount to more or less than the single hit which will occur if prices are not reduced. It is much too simplistic to say that because there are two numbers (sales and prices) falling, the total fall will be greater than if just 1 number (sales) falls, and I made this very clear in my earlier posting. Not only that, but you have no idea if my suggestions would result in a double hit at all. They might result in increased sales where your single hit would result in loss of sales. You can't make blithe assumptions to fit an argument. You have to look at the circumstances and decide what you think will happen given the options available.

Using terms such as double hit is unhelpful as it ascribes a sense of double the impact, which is clearly not right, and given your detailed acknowledgement of the use of such descriptives on TiU, I suspect you know this already.

Extremely misleading is not OTT forum speak. If 90% of ST sales occur in the discount period, it is extremely misleading to compare my figures with the non-discounted period figures. There was no implication of a deliberate attempt to mislead on your part.

The point I'm making on prices is in valuing the product both according to market and according to affordability and according to quality of product and according to demand and according to the need to re-build the club. It is certainly not in the interests of the club at this stage to be saying what can we get away with charging in SSU because we think they will pay up anyway. That is called fleecing your customers.

The fact is that the market for seats on the sidelines is higher than behind the goal because of the superior view and so they command a higher price than behind the goal.

The price structure I came up with is not based on uniform % changes accross each stand. That approach would be wrong. My pricing structure is based on what I believe ot be fair prices for the product, affordable prices for the market, reflecting the need to re-build and re-connect with the community. The what can we get away with approach is what leads to disconnection with supporters and loss of support. We should be charging the right price for the circumstances, not the highest price we can get away with.

As I said before, there is no point comparing apples and pears and comparison with FGR is a futile excercise. Our prices shoudl be what is right for our circumstances and taking account of what we can achieve, what is realistic and all the other factors I have already mentioned.

BTW how come you think my timing is perfect and Tim thinks I'm too late?

[trevor l]

There comes a point where we are arguing about nothing, and I think we’re nearly there!

I think we agree on most of this but a couple of points:

“Inherent assumption