Ethical dilemma : Slumdon or Franchise?

Anything yellow and blue

Who would you prefer to go up - Slumdon or Franchise?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:02 pm

Slumdon
14
64%
Franchise
8
36%
 
Total votes: 22

Kernow Yellow
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Re:

Post by Kernow Yellow » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:03 pm

&quotDLT&quot wrote:When Wimbledon moved from Plough Lane to Selhurst Park they possibly disenfranchised just as many of their original 'local' fans, the ones who used to walk down the road to watch non league football as they did with the second move.
You don't actually believe this, do you? Granted, South London is not the easiest of places to negotiate without a car on a Saturday (and was worse before the tram link opened) , but to equate this with a trip across town plus 60-odd miles into Buckinghamshire is ridiculous. Especially from a cost point of view.

To continue your OUFC anology, it's like saying we might as well have moved to Bristol as Greater Leys.

I know you're just trying to stir, but you really do seem to have a blind spot as far as Wimbledon/MK Dons are concerned...

Baboo
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Re:

Post by Baboo » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:51 am

&quotDLT&quot wrote:Surely they could have stayed at Plough Lane?
And we could have stayed at the Manor.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:39 pm

&quotBaboo&quot wrote:
&quotDLT&quot wrote:Surely they could have stayed at Plough Lane?
And we could have stayed at the Manor.
And that's an Ace from Baboo, right on the line. :lol:

DLT
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Post by DLT » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:06 pm

So then why did Merton Borough Council not move hell and earth to find a home in their borough for 'their' club?

In Oxford local politicians at all levels of government, from all parties realised that the Oxford United issue was a serious vote deciding matter. They did all in their powers to ensure the club had a new home to allow it to survive. The inquiry into whether they played by the rules lasted a considerable time which I believe shows how close they were prepared to go to the line.

But Merton Councillors didn't feel such pressure. Once the club moved 'temporarily' out of the borough maybe their fan base's voting power moved elsewhere as well. Maybe finding a home in their borough became a vote loser, not a vote winner. Possible the club settled for the cheaper option of paying rent rather than seriously investing in finding a new 'home at home'.

Yes we could have stayed happily at the Manor. But that would have involved us learning to live within a budget that our ground was capable of generating and not being ambitious beyond our means.

Wimbledon and Luton could both be accused of trying to live beyond their means for a prolonged period as well.

If we had accepted that our club was like our ground, a Division 4 maybe Div 3 ground and kept our budgets sustainable then I could still be stood on the shelf.

Maybe if Wimbledon fans had been as vociferous about the need for a home in Merton before they left Plough Lane as they were when they formed AFC then the Dons wouldn't be in MK now.

Pe├▒a Oxford United
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Post by Pe├▒a Oxford United » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:30 pm

It's a whole succession of bad, false, ill-informed, incoherent and contradictory arguments.

But a bad case deserves no better.
entirely disenchanted

Snake
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Post by Snake » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:31 pm

DLT has a good point, as maybe both Merton Councillors and WISA were a bit slow off the mark to see the importance of a link between followers of their own local football club and the votes that keep them in power, but it’s good to see that things are changing at last. The next thing you know will be AFC Wimbledon fans threatening to put up candidates in the local elections - http://www.wisa.org.uk/lelections2006/

Not that I agree with those sorts of bullying tactics of course..

http://olympia.fortunecity.com/bischoff ... 071999.htm

Kernow Yellow
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Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:50 pm

AFC Wimbledon don't play in Merton either, ironically. Not sure what that has to do with the price of fish, though.

neilw
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Post by neilw » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:34 am

The points made by DLT may well be relevant and contributory to the reason Wimbledon no longer has a league club.

However, what happened in Merton shouldn't have been a factor, in anyway, to assist Milton Keynes forming a club in the third tier of English football without earning the right to be there.

Baboo
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Re:

Post by Baboo » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:00 am

&quotneilw&quot wrote:However, what happened in Merton shouldn't have been a factor, in anyway, to assist Milton Keynes forming a club in the third tier of English football without earning the right to be there.
The only way they will ever earn the right to be there is if they sink to obscurity way way down the football pyramid and then work their way back up through their exploits ON THE PITCH.

Jimski
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Post by Jimski » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:19 pm

There was a non-league club at step 5 based in Milton Keynes, namely Milton Keynes City (now defunct). If Winkelman was really wanting to fund a side through the pyramid, he probably could have got them into (or near to) the league if he'd tried.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:05 pm

&quotDLT&quot wrote:So then why did Merton Borough Council not move hell and earth to find a home in their borough for 'their' club?

In Oxford local politicians at all levels of government, from all parties realised that the Oxford United issue was a serious vote deciding matter. They did all in their powers to ensure the club had a new home to allow it to survive. The inquiry into whether they played by the rules lasted a considerable time which I believe shows how close they were prepared to go to the line.

But Merton Councillors didn't feel such pressure. Once the club moved 'temporarily' out of the borough maybe their fan base's voting power moved elsewhere as well. Maybe finding a home in their borough became a vote loser, not a vote winner. Possible the club settled for the cheaper option of paying rent rather than seriously investing in finding a new 'home at home'.

Yes we could have stayed happily at the Manor. But that would have involved us learning to live within a budget that our ground was capable of generating and not being ambitious beyond our means.

Wimbledon and Luton could both be accused of trying to live beyond their means for a prolonged period as well.

If we had accepted that our club was like our ground, a Division 4 maybe Div 3 ground and kept our budgets sustainable then I could still be stood on the shelf.

Maybe if Wimbledon fans had been as vociferous about the need for a home in Merton before they left Plough Lane as they were when they formed AFC then the Dons wouldn't be in MK now.
Two fundamental problems with your argument there Dave.

Firstly, Merton council approved a 20,000 all seater stadium at Plough Lane. Merton were happy for Wimbledon to stay at Plough Lane but didn't want them to move elsewhere.

Secondly, the idea that Oxford City Council played any part in being helpful towards Oxford United finding a new home over the last 40 years is about as far from the truth as could be imagined.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:09 pm

&quotKernow Yellow&quot wrote:AFC Wimbledon don't play in Merton either, ironically. Not sure what that has to do with the price of fish, though.
This is true. By the time the Football League had sold their grannies for gold in favour of Franchising, Plough Lane has several large trees growing in it, had been sold, and the League Place had been stolen. AFCW were by then fairly powerless with Merton Council.

Kingstonian is only about 1 to 2 miles outside Merton Borough, and Kingstonian (who now rent the ground from AFCW) would have gone out of business without AFCW stepping in. It was the best solution available without going through very expensive and lengthy (and no doubt failing) planning permissions, and without either a site or resources to build a new ground up to Ryman standards.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm

&quotJimski&quot wrote:There was a non-league club at step 5 based in Milton Keynes, namely Milton Keynes City (now defunct). If Winkelman was really wanting to fund a side through the pyramid, he probably could have got them into (or near to) the league if he'd tried.
This is very true, and there have been several incarnations in MK teams in the past, all of which have folded due to lack of local support.

GodalmingYellow
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Re:

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm

&quotBaboo&quot wrote:
&quotneilw&quot wrote:However, what happened in Merton shouldn't have been a factor, in anyway, to assist Milton Keynes forming a club in the third tier of English football without earning the right to be there.
The only way they will ever earn the right to be there is if they sink to obscurity way way down the football pyramid and then work their way back up through their exploits ON THE PITCH.
Quite right Baboo. Down to step 6, same as AFCW had to.

Pe├▒a Oxford United
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Re:

Post by Pe├▒a Oxford United » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:21 pm

&quotGodalmingYellow&quot wrote:Secondly, the idea that Oxford City Council played any part in being helpful towards Oxford United finding a new home over the last 40 years is about as far from the truth as could be imagined.
Well, apart from insisting that the new ground be completed before the old one was sold, for instance, which is probably why there is still a football club today.
entirely disenchanted

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