I didn't expect this!

Anything yellow and blue
Mooro
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Re:

Post by Mooro » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:09 pm

&quot...clearly structured to impede a larger club that drops into the conference from wiping out the competition for a season&quot

I seem to remember something to the effect that i) there is some sort of parachute element for clubs coming down which should give us some advantage over the rest and ii) there is also some sort of currency element which means large crowds (or at least gate receipts) work their way through the calculation of income and therefore salary limit.

Just as an aside - The cap allows x% for players and another y% for staff, which made me wonder whether if we did decide to dust off a member of staff and field them in an emergency (as we have in the past with Mickey Lewis, Dave Oldfield, Alan Judge etc) would we still be able to or would that still move us over the wage cap? More theoretical in this case as I'm not sure we have anyone on board who could play (who isnt playing elsewhere).

&quotAnd....... what are the penalties for breaking cap? Would the football league block our return if after winning the league it was discovered we spent 100K too much on wages under Conference rules, but well under what theirown rules dictate....&quot

I think overspending would not be advisable, as I'm the Conference would be quite keen to punish a big club such as Oxford sufficiently to block promotion, if it meant that same big club would bolster the Conference attendance average for another season.
I'm fairly sure there are some set penalties in place for overspending so it would not be advisable.

&quot...why, for God’s sake, did we allegedly spend right up to the cap rules...&quot - No real harm in spending to the limit in the first half of the season (particularly if it takes you clear of the chasing pack), as long as there is the likelihood of being able to offload players to make the space for new signings when the window appears.
Clubs are unlikely to know who is not going to perform prior to the season (otherwise they wouldnt sign them), but normally a couple fail to live up to expectations and can be moved on.

Question is, Tardif aside (and only cos he wants to go), who else (aside from the three juniors who are not on enough to make a difference) have we the best chance of offloading in the next couple of weeks?

neilw
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Post by neilw » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:27 pm

My guess on Merry, is that he's just a Charlie Big Time, with limited wealth, who fanicies himself as the Chairman of a football club, preferably OUFC. If it were Merry alone, I think the worrying would be justified. I take comfort from the fact that he is obviously well connected to both Smith and Lenaghan, both of which I would suggest are pretty astute and honourable.

Merry is just Lenaghan's mate. This is just a few drinking pals, one of which does have some substance, doing something for the sheer hell of it. My guess is that Merry convinced his mate it was worth a bash and the two of them had a word with Smith to see if he fancied in. If mystery partner is not Lenaghan, which I think unlikely, then commence Herd like panic.

Thinking about it ...... I'm bothered now :D

neilw
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Post by neilw » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:30 pm

My guess on Merry, is that he's just a Charlie Big Time, with limited wealth, who fanicies himself as the Chairman of a football club, preferably OUFC. If it were Merry alone, I think the worrying would be justified. I take comfort from the fact that he is obviously well connected to both Smith and Lenaghan, both of which I would suggest are pretty astute and honourable.

Merry is just Lenaghan's mate. This is just a few drinking pals, one of which does have some substance, doing something for the sheer hell of it. My guess is that Merry convinced his mate it was worth a bash and the two of them had a word with Smith to see if he fancied in. If mystery partner is not Lenaghan, which I think unlikely, then commence Herd like panic.

Thinking about it ...... I'm bothered now :D

Resurrection Ox
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Re:

Post by Resurrection Ox » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:36 pm

&quotneilw&quot wrote:My guess on Merry, is that he's just a Charlie Big Time, with limited wealth, who fanicies himself as the Chairman of a football club, preferably OUFC. If it were Merry alone, I think the worrying would be justified. I take comfort from the fact that he is obviously well connected to both Smith and Lenaghan, both of which I would suggest are pretty astute and honourable.

Merry is just Lenaghan's mate. This is just a few drinking pals, one of which does have some substance, doing something for the sheer hell of it. My guess is that Merry convinced his mate it was worth a bash and the two of them had a word with Smith to see if he fancied in. If mystery partner is not Lenaghan, which I think unlikely, then commence Herd like panic.

Thinking about it ...... I'm bothered now :D

A few dodgy results and everyone is flapping like albatrosses. Minutes later we're rumoured to be signing 3 new players. Good. Have we never heard about such a tactic as talking the market down to get players on lower salaries?

As for Kassam he was a disgrace and a disaster. Who treated nearly every Oxford United supporter with total contempt.

I am amused by the revisionism going on. Just because we failed to beat Crawley and Woking.

Doesn't take much does it?

Mally
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Post by Mally » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:14 pm

It's a bit more serious than a few dodgy results though. We haven't played well and looked convincing since Aldershot 2 months ago. Even this perhaps could be put down to a mid season blip if we hadn't been here before under Atkins.

When we got relegated to League 2 most fans believed it was crucial that we bounced straight back but it's a lot more crucial now in the Conference. If we don't go straight back up and crowds fall the cost of renting or buying a 12,500 all seat stadium just doesn't stack up. If turnover falls to £1million we won't have to worry about the wages cap because after paying the rent we'll have no chance of getting anywhere near it.

Hopefully it can still be turned round with 2 or 3 good signings and/or loan players and I have a lot more faith in Jim Smith's ability to do this than I would have had in any other manager we've had since the move from the Manor but its still very worrying.

Kernow Yellow
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Re:

Post by Kernow Yellow » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:25 pm

&quotMally&quot wrote:We haven't played well and looked convincing since Aldershot 2 months ago.
Indeed. But there's more to it than that - although we were 8 points clear (or thereabouts) then, we hadn't actually played well and looked convincing many times at all.

Our results were flattering to deceive, and the heightened expectations of automatic promotion that the 8 point lead created is now leading to heightened panic at our current form.

That's not to say that I'm not worried though. Our total lack of creativity, not to mention brainlessness at set-pieces (particularly throw-ins) is incredibly frustrating.

But hopefully getting Man U's reserve captain in is a step in the right direction...

Baboo
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Re:

Post by Baboo » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:06 pm

[quote=&quotResurrection Ox Have we never heard about such a tactic as talking the market down to get players on lower salaries?
[/quote]

Yes, and so have the agents too.

Snake
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Re:

Post by Snake » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:13 pm

&quotResurrection Ox&quot wrote:
&quotneilw&quot wrote:My guess on Merry, is that he's just a Charlie Big Time, with limited wealth, who fanicies himself as the Chairman of a football club, preferably OUFC. If it were Merry alone, I think the worrying would be justified. I take comfort from the fact that he is obviously well connected to both Smith and Lenaghan, both of which I would suggest are pretty astute and honourable.

Merry is just Lenaghan's mate. This is just a few drinking pals, one of which does have some substance, doing something for the sheer hell of it. My guess is that Merry convinced his mate it was worth a bash and the two of them had a word with Smith to see if he fancied in. If mystery partner is not Lenaghan, which I think unlikely, then commence Herd like panic.

Thinking about it ...... I'm bothered now :D

A few dodgy results and everyone is flapping like albatrosses. Minutes later we're rumoured to be signing 3 new players. Good. Have we never heard about such a tactic as talking the market down to get players on lower salaries?

As for Kassam he was a disgrace and a disaster. Who treated nearly every Oxford United supporter with total contempt.

I am amused by the revisionism going on. Just because we failed to beat Crawley and Woking.

Doesn't take much does it?
Hey, let’s get one thing clear here, Tim.

I’ve watched Oxford play for three seasons in the top flight of English football, so if I want to flap about a bad run of games that might mean the difference between being a non-league club or not next year I bloody well will do.

Half the problem with some of our fans over the last 20 seasons (and I don’t know why) seem to emanate from the fact that over the years we’ve given the people who run our club too much time to sort things out. If I want to know who’s running our club (and why) then I think I have every right to ask questions, given we’ve been here before..

http://archive.theoxfordtimes.net/1998/7/28/84913.html

..on a number of occasions in recent history so I don’t know why you're continuing to cloud your judgement with blind faith unsupported by facts.

/

Rose is a great coup for Jimbo. We’ve not seen him play yet but I don’t care if he’s only any good on paper because if Sir Alex makes him a captain of one of his teams then that’s good enough for me.

However, points mean prizes and we’ve not picked up many of those recently.

Myles Francis
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Re:

Post by Myles Francis » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:52 am

&quotMooro&quot wrote:Just as an aside - The cap allows x% for players and another y% for staff, which made me wonder whether if we did decide to dust off a member of staff and field them in an emergency (as we have in the past with Mickey Lewis, Dave Oldfield, Alan Judge etc) would we still be able to or would that still move us over the wage cap? More theoretical in this case as I'm not sure we have anyone on board who could play (who isnt playing elsewhere).
The x% for players and y% for other staff was in the Football League wage cap and not in the Conference one. The Conference sets a &quotPlaying budget&quot which includes players' wages, bonuses, transfer fees etc.

I guess in the Conference you can register another member of staff on non-contract terms so they don't get paid anything above their non-footballing salary and not have any effect on the playing budget.

Matt D
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Post by Matt D » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:41 am

the wage cap may not fully reflect the advantage we have in revenue, but i think it's going a bit far to say that it's in place to impede larger clubs. we must be pushing the parameters that were in mind when the rules were made.

i note the wage cap review dates are the end of november and end of january, so presumably the blackstock payment was taken into account at the last review? the only other circumstance in which budgets can be reviewed is in the instance where 25% of a club's palyers are certified as injured. i read today that all our players other than willmott, basham, and hutchinson are now back in training - i'm not sure what counts as 'certified' injured?

Jimski
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Post by Jimski » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:06 pm

Yes surely a wage cap actually proves an advantage to clubs (like us) with higher turnovers? We surely have a higher cap level than any other side in this division? If that's true, we can hardly whinge about unfairness...

Mally
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Post by Mally » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:19 pm

The problem with the Conference cap , Jimski, is that it isn't even. It's tapered which means that clubs with a higher turnover can use much less of their marginal income. I can't remember the exact thresholds but when you get to the top band (which is probably only us) its only about 25% that you can spend.

This has the effect of levelling out the &quotplaying field&quot and reducing the advantage of bigger clubs. In the Football League I believe its a straight percentage and is aimed at ensuring that clubs don't get into financial trouble and go into administration/liquidation whereas in the Conference there's an attempt to introduce a sort of handicap system.

Of course this means that OUFC should have a lot of cash swimming about at the end of the season or the ability to invest in other areas of the club. The accounts should make for interesting reading in June/July.

Jimski
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Post by Jimski » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:27 pm

But don't we still get more to spend than anyone else in the division? In which case...

Mally
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Post by Mally » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:07 pm

Yes we do but conversely players and their agents will expect us to pay more than other clubs because we're seen as being much bigger and richer and we also have a number of players on Football League contracts that will be quite a bit higher than Conference wages.

On the accounts point of course we probably won't get to see this years accounts until early 2008 but the 2005/06 accounts will make interesting reading when we get to see them. Under Kassam the club has held regular and prompt AGMs but I haven't heard anything from the current regime about when they plan to hold one or file their accounts. Anybody have any ideas? Am I right in thinking they have 10 months from the June year end (i.e by the end of April 07) to file them?

Resurrection Ox
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Re:

Post by Resurrection Ox » Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:06 pm

&quotMally&quot wrote:Yes we do but conversely players and their agents will expect us to pay more than other clubs because we're seen as being much bigger and richer and we also have a number of players on Football League contracts that will be quite a bit higher than Conference wages.

On the accounts point of course we probably won't get to see this years accounts until early 2008 but the 2005/06 accounts will make interesting reading when we get to see them. Under Kassam the club has held regular and prompt AGMs but I haven't heard anything from the current regime about when they plan to hold one or file their accounts. Anybody have any ideas? Am I right in thinking they have 10 months from the June year end (i.e by the end of April 07) to file them?
Warms the cockles of your heart That fantastic legacy of the Kasasm Era.

They held 'regular and prompt AGMs.' Champion.

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