How would you end it?

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recordmeister
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How would you end it?

Post by recordmeister »

So... how would you finish the season?
Kernow Yellow
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by Kernow Yellow »

I think the league needs to have some idea of what next season is going to look like before making final decisions about this one. Football is going to change dramatically, at least in the short-to-medium term. Will clubs survive? What will the structure and timescales be? Those are more important questions than what kind of ppg calculation should be used to calculate who finishes third (although it should be weighted, obvs).
recordmeister
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by recordmeister »

One WW fan I spoke to said any weighted points should then be multiplied by the number of stands a team has to work our final points tally....
Jimski
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by Jimski »

Kernow Yellow wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:20 pm I think the league needs to have some idea of what next season is going to look like before making final decisions about this one. Football is going to change dramatically, at least in the short-to-medium term. Will clubs survive? What will the structure and timescales be? Those are more important questions than what kind of ppg calculation should be used to calculate who finishes third (although it should be weighted, obvs).
Heh, at the start of the crisis, I opined that we might well be finishing this season a year delayed in 2021. It still seems possible to me...
Isaac
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by Isaac »

Jimski wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Kernow Yellow wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 12:20 pm I think the league needs to have some idea of what next season is going to look like before making final decisions about this one. Football is going to change dramatically, at least in the short-to-medium term. Will clubs survive? What will the structure and timescales be? Those are more important questions than what kind of ppg calculation should be used to calculate who finishes third (although it should be weighted, obvs).
Heh, at the start of the crisis, I opined that we might well be finishing this season a year delayed in 2021. It still seems possible to me...
I think that would be the best option, however I can't see many clubs surviving until then.
recordmeister
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by recordmeister »

I don’t think that’s the best option. Any option of finishing the season (with or without play offs) is NOT finishing the same competition that was started.

There are a million complications (what would another club say if Ben Woodburn scored the winning goal for Us in a play off final? How much more energy would Akinfenwa have for 3 play off games, having had a 7 week rest, rather than a long season? Why would a team risk playing first team players once they are ‘safe’? Which teams would simply not fulfil their fixtures as a fine would be cheaper than playing behind closed doors? Etc etc)

Call off the season. Dead rubber. It’s not fair on anyone to play any sort of competition (certainly not a mini league of any sort- if 4 can play, all can play).

For me, the single most important thing is working out not how this season ends but how next season starts. And if that is curtailed by another spike, an agreement how it is dealt with beforehand.
YF Dan
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by YF Dan »

Can anyone, honestly, hand on heart, 100 percent definitely say they really believe that League 1 and 2 will exist when football finally reopens to fans?

As the Cummings spike kicks in a few week's time, how will play-offs/remaning games possibly happen?

As Recordmeister says, for me the real concern is how and when next season starts. How long can football exist without fans and revenue? I'd say not long at this level, and when furlough disappears, a lot of clubs are going to be fucked (if they're not already).

In terms of finishing this season, I said right at the beginning I saw three fair workable outcomes and I stand by them:

1) Null and void. Bitterly disappointing but clean.
2) A Duckworth Lewis-type method of Weighted-PPG possibly based on xG, remaining opponents, etc. No idea if we'd go up, but I guess there would be a chance.
3) Write this season off but carry over the points to next season, (and possibly extend next season to include the missing 8-9 games). So effectively there's a 88-game season which we're coming up to halfway through. I like this option. It gets around the problem of promoting and relegating on unfinished seasons, and rewards teams who've had a good first 38 games.

The fourth option isn't very fair, but is probably the most practical, which is the non-weighted PPG, which will of course promote Wycombe. Unless, and this I reckon is possible too, they decide that only the top two go up, which will solve a lot of issues.
Dr Bob
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by Dr Bob »

I am not sure that unweighted PPG is any more practical than weighted PPG - and the latter reflects what I assume must be an objective fact, that teams have different home and away form (otherwise the two measures would deliver the same outcome).

One problem is that Leagues 1 and 2 do not operate in isolation. Does making our season null and void fit in with what is being discussed for The Championship? And the National League? Would doing that create a split that might tempt some to resurrect the idea of a Premier League 2?

Another option is to move straight into the playoffs, which is something I also thought was being considered. Whether that is determined by UPPG or WPPG would not affect us massively, but would mean that the remaining football to be played would be completed much more quickly.

The problem is, as we see with Tranmere for example, different clubs proposing different options short of completing the season or calling it as null and void, will have different impacts on themselves and others. But as I have pondered before, what would declaring the season as null and void mean for Bury? How can Bury have been ejected from a competition that, de jure, did not happen?

That said, as Dan argues, promoting just two from League 1 is clean (I think it would be those top two under any formulation), but I cannot see the season being completed now. Delay after delay means it is just too late, given that a return to full training would still have to be factored in.

I like the idea of running an 88 game double season. At least then the outcome would be decided ultimately, by football.

The trouble is, however, that none of these discussions address Dan's perhaps most important concern. How soon will fans be allowed back into stadia? Without that, there is a very real danger that whatever we return to, it will not look as it does not because even more clubs will go to the wall.
YF Dan
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Re: How would you end it?

Post by YF Dan »

There is, of course, a tremendous opportunity to rebuild football from scratch, to put clubs into local fan-based ownership models, to impose sensible and enforcable wage caps, to cut the cancerous relationship with agents, to redistribute the PL money, to create affordable fan-friendly experiences at stadiums...and build a football that will last forever and benefit the nation.

In the same way that we could have used this (hopefully once in a lifetime) event to rebuild society to create a green, sustainable and fair society. Sadly, of course, football is governed by the same greedy, selfish, short-sighted and hazardous fools who run our country at present.

It's clubs below the top one percent who are going to be crushed by this event, and just a reminder we're one of the 99 percent.

Happy thursday everyone.
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