Furlough

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recordmeister
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Furlough

Post by recordmeister »

Am I correct in thinking that if one is furloughed it inhibits (legally) your ability to do a job- eg, you’re not allowed to do any part of your job.

If so how do footballer in the furlough scheme train?
Werthers Original
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Re: Furlough

Post by Werthers Original »

I think it means they aren’t expecting training to start for a while , not before theoretical preseason in July I guess
recordmeister
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Re: Furlough

Post by recordmeister »

And how can a furloughed manager be doing a fans forum?
recordmeister
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Re: Furlough

Post by recordmeister »

So if you heard the forum you’d know that legally the players ‘can’t train or train in groups’ while hey are under furlough. This begs the question of the fitness levels of teams who have been furloughed longer than OUFC and will surely throw up questions about those teams (Sunderland anyone?) who have furloughed players yet managed to retain a good level of fitness - of course this can be done independently (I’m trying to stay fit in this current climate) but you have to ask the question of how that works with a group of young players.
Werthers Original
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Re: Furlough

Post by Werthers Original »

I think Karl is still working? I guess there’s nothing to stop the players keeping fit at home
OtmoorYellow
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Re: Furlough

Post by OtmoorYellow »

recordmeister wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:37 pm Am I correct in thinking that if one is furloughed it inhibits (legally) your ability to do a job- eg, you’re not allowed to do any part of your job.

If so how do footballer in the furlough scheme train?
That’s correct, except for company directors performing minimum duties to maintain company legal requirements.

Anyone is allowed to keep fit. Presumably the players can’t train by instruction, though how that could be enforced is difficult to see.

I don’t see how Robbo could be furloughed whilst doing a fans forum, unless it was argued that he is not contractually required to take part. I wouldn’t want to have to argue that case with HMRC.
Dr Bob
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Re: Furlough

Post by Dr Bob »

According to this:
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/1839 ... gh-scheme/
KR is not furloughed.

As OY says, how can not training by instruction possibly be enforced. In conceptual terms, fitness and training can easily be distinguished, with the latter involving working collectively on game or tactic-related elements, as distinct from pure fitness related activities like running and other cardio activities, strength workouts, etc.

In practice, however, here as with everywhere else, the dividing line is simply not clear. I would hope that the authorities would take a sensible, pragmatic approach to this issue and not be heavy-handed - even with HM Treasury and public money involved.

But at what point would government financial support end? Would it be when (group) training resumes? Or when matches resume? For non-PL clubs, especially lower down, if games are played behind closed doors, even resuming matches would not see revenues return, as there is next to no TV coverage to speak of.
Kernow Yellow
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Re: Furlough

Post by Kernow Yellow »

Dr Bob wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:51 pm For non-PL clubs, especially lower down, if games are played behind closed doors, even resuming matches would not see revenues return, as there is next to no TV coverage to speak of.
I reckon almost all matches will be 'televised' in some form or another. I don't mean park football, but certainly down to Conference regional level, and probably beyond. We've already got iplayer for all league clubs and I don't see why it can't be rolled out at lower levels fairly quickly. Then all clubs can monetise their matches to some extent. Also, TV companies will be queuing up to put on any live sport they can, as their schedules will be depleted from not being able to film programmes over several months. So there should be an opportunity to get some more revenue there (and maybe even share it more evenly if more matches are broadcast) if it can be worked out in tandem with existing broadcast deals. That's not to say that some clubs won't really struggle financially, especially those that are already £10m in debt (ahem).

When do people think we'll be able to watch football in a stadium again? Not until some time in 2021 I reckon.
Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Furlough

Post by Kairdiff Exile »

Kernow Yellow wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:16 pm So there should be an opportunity to get some more revenue there (and maybe even share it more evenly if more matches are broadcast)
Highly sceptical of that. I confidently predict any TV deal will make the rich clubs richer whilst the smaller clubs rely on iFollow revenues (which will be a fraction of their normal matchday income).

I’ve never watched a game online (don’t have S*y Sp*orts or any of that nonsense either), and even in these unprecedented times I won't be starting now. Football for me is a live, visceral, communitarian thing - not a TV show. If the authorities decide (as they seem to have done last week) to force Div 3 and 4 clubs to see out the season behind closed doors, that’s their prerogative - but they can’t expect to take all fans with them.

The money I save will go towards future tickets and away days - and probably in the meantime to watch some socially-distanced non-league instead.
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Re: Furlough

Post by Kernow Yellow »

Kairdiff Exile wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:57 pm
Kernow Yellow wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:16 pm So there should be an opportunity to get some more revenue there (and maybe even share it more evenly if more matches are broadcast)
Highly sceptical of that. I confidently predict any TV deal will make the rich clubs richer whilst the smaller clubs rely on iFollow revenues (which will be a fraction of their normal matchday income).

I’ve never watched a game online (don’t have S*y Sp*orts or any of that nonsense either), and even in these unprecedented times I won't be starting now. Football for me is a live, visceral, communitarian thing - not a TV show. If the authorities decide (as they seem to have done last week) to force Div 3 and 4 clubs to see out the season behind closed doors, that’s their prerogative - but they can’t expect to take all fans with them.

The money I save will go towards future tickets and away days - and probably in the meantime to watch some socially-distanced non-league instead.
You're probably right about the TV deals. But there's no reason iFollow revenues can't become significant. I started watching some of our (non-Saturday) games that way about 18 months ago, and while I've been uncomfortable about the effect having such easy availability would have on attendances it doesn't seem to have panned out that way. And I can confidently say I've never decided not to attend a game because it was available on ifollow. But more to the point, we're simply not going to be able to watch live games without some serious crowd-reduction measures in place for a good while yet. I don't see why you'd be able to do so at non-league level either - the problem at football isn't so much in the watching crowd in the fresh air, but with shared use of toilets, turnstiles, catering etc. That's arguably worse at non-league than PL level!

I reckon there's a substantial number of people that would pay a tenner (or more) per game to watch their team play live football now. And you'd still be saving plenty of money compared to the costs of travel and pub etc. Of course I'd rather have a nice away day with my mates, with trains and pubs and all that, but that isn't going to be happening anytime soon, and we need to get used to that imo rather than refusing to accept anything which falls short of it. If football just stops until that is available again, if it ever is, then imagine what the product will be like when it returns? Football needs to start again before too long, albeit behind closed doors, to avoid losing many professional clubs and a generation of players.
Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Furlough

Post by Kairdiff Exile »

All good points, KY. I don't pretend for a moment that there are any easy answers here, and nor do I pretend to answer for anyone but myself (and indeed acknowledge that I'm probably an outlier in my views).

All I can do is speak for myself and say that live football for me is exactly that - something to be experienced in real life, in the flesh. I'd sooner watch the Dog & Duck's team against the Red Lion, stood all by myself on a windswept touchline somewhere with a flask of coffee and a mars bar, than sit in front of a TV (or laptop) screen.
slappy
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Re: Furlough

Post by slappy »

OK so I looked up what furloughed employees can do from the CIPD site
"When employees are on furlough, they must not to do any work for their employer that:
makes money for the employer or any organisation linked or associated with it
provides services for the employer or any organisation linked or associated with it."

So would you say the footballers can still do their training, but for instance the manager and fitness coaches would not be able to instruct them (if the fitness coach is furloughed)? Anyone know which staff are not furloughed?

Perhaps why we can see Robbo and Rosie stuffing envelopes with face masks at the stadium today. Though I suspect 1 mask per envelope is perhaps more of a PR stunt than actual use, unless the recipients only go out once and use them.
Myles Francis
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Re: Furlough

Post by Myles Francis »

Kernow Yellow wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:52 pm You're probably right about the TV deals. But there's no reason iFollow revenues can't become significant.
Andy Holt, the Accrington chairman, has gone into quite a bit of detail on Twitter about the problems with iFollow revenues. At the moment, when a viewer pays to watch a game, that revenue goes to the club through which the purchase has been made. Holt's issue is that when they play, say, Sunderland at home, there will be a huge amount of money coming in, but the vast majority will go to Sunderland. Accrington will still have to bear the costs of putting the fixture on, paying their players, etc, but the income derived from iFollow won't come close to what they would get through gate receipts, F&B, and merch sales.

So, yes, iFollow revenues could become significant, but the distribution model will have to change to give the smaller clubs a fighting chance of survival.
OtmoorYellow
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Re: Furlough

Post by OtmoorYellow »

Myles Francis wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 11:59 am
Kernow Yellow wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:52 pm You're probably right about the TV deals. But there's no reason iFollow revenues can't become significant.
Andy Holt, the Accrington chairman, has gone into quite a bit of detail on Twitter about the problems with iFollow revenues. At the moment, when a viewer pays to watch a game, that revenue goes to the club through which the purchase has been made. Holt's issue is that when they play, say, Sunderland at home, there will be a huge amount of money coming in, but the vast majority will go to Sunderland. Accrington will still have to bear the costs of putting the fixture on, paying their players, etc, but the income derived from iFollow won't come close to what they would get through gate receipts, F&B, and merch sales.

So, yes, iFollow revenues could become significant, but the distribution model will have to change to give the smaller clubs a fighting chance of survival.
I can't believe it is beyond the wit of man or woman to make a small change to the system so that ifollow fees for a match are paid direct through the home club website.
Radley Rambler
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Re: Furlough

Post by Radley Rambler »

It may not be a technical issue but rather one where the bigger L1 clubs want to keep the iFollow revenues earned through their fan base on the basis that there will be many more of their fans tuning in and paying for the privilege.
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