Chaos

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Jimski
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Chaos

Post by Jimski » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:07 am

Well, I've never seen scenes like that in a football game. I'm still not entirely sure what went on. Was there supposedly a penalty for a foul before Bradford's point blank miss? A mis-taken goal kick? Who knows. The referee didn't exactly cover himself in glory, but hey Mackie's goal stood, and that's all I care about.

We certainly "deserved" the win on overall play - 26 shots, even if only 5 on target. Bradford not even a shot on target - one of the poorest sides I've seen this season. We adapted to the crazy conditions a lot better than they did.

We've now got 10 points from our last five games, but why does it somehow still feel like we're struggling at the moment? Not sure. Anyway a much needed win.

Dr Bob
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Re: Chaos

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 am

Awful performance in front of goal, with too many players off-form, not passing, and generally failing to hit a cow's arse with a banjo - but what a superb bit of control and volley from Mackie. Ignoring everything else, that was a quite brilliant goal - even more so given the time and context of the match when it happened.

As for the rest, It was neither a corner nor a penalty - their player missed under pressure from a defender. Goal kicks can be taken with players in the box if they are not interfering with play. EFL on Quest highlights confirm they were not. I always pay close attention to goal kicks played short (an odd habit of mine) and the ball only just crossed the line before Ruffs touched it, but it was definitely out of the box.

Frankly the ref was poor all game, with no real control of events. And as for the City manager, maybe he believes was he said, maybe he was just really frustrated, maybe he was covering and looking for excuses to distract from a very poor performance from a poor side - but simply he was wrong with every argument he made.

Kashi was excellent in the first half (speed of thought and passing were fantastic), but having been booked for a truly deliberate pull back near the end (talk about taking one for the team - in the seconds before it happened, he was almost shouting his intentions), he should have got a second yellow 5 seconds later for the way in which he kicked the ball away. Long is really starting to look very good indeed. Nelson was imperious again. Whyte was great attacking players but utterly rubbish at shooting. That said, despite so much inconsistency we were still by far the better team.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Chaos

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:07 pm

Dr Bob wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 am
I always pay close attention to goal kicks played short (an odd habit of mine) and the ball only just crossed the line before Ruffs touched it, but it was definitely out of the box.
Are you sure about that, Doc?

In my view, play should have been brought back - but, having not done so in the immediate moments after the kick was improperly taken, it would have been disproportionate and misguided for the ref to do so after the goal. Either stop play immediately after the goal kick, or let play run. Having done the latter, he made the right call to overrule his linesman. We maybe got a bit lucky, but so would Bratfud if it had been chalked off.

Incidentally, I distinctly remember a 0-0 draw with Bratfud in one of the final seasons at the Manor when we had a goal disallowed, except (in our youthful ignorance and the pre-internet age of easily-available information) neither me nor my mates realised so it wasn’t until we got home and saw Ceefax that we realised we’d not won! So let’s call yesterday’s result karma for that. Or something.

Dr Bob
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Re: Chaos

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:22 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:07 pm
Dr Bob wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 am
I always pay close attention to goal kicks played short (an odd habit of mine) and the ball only just crossed the line before Ruffs touched it, but it was definitely out of the box.
Are you sure about that, Doc?

In my view, play should have been brought back - but, having not done so in the immediate moments after the kick was improperly taken, it would have been disproportionate and misguided for the ref to do so after the goal. Either stop play immediately after the goal kick, or let play run. Having done the latter, he made the right call to overrule his linesman. We maybe got a bit lucky, but so would Bratfud if it had been chalked off.
I was absolutely, 100%, certain at the time. I remain confident of what I saw. Because that image is a still, it does not actually show the first point of contact (foot proximate to ball does not equal contact). Despite my confidence in what I saw, and despite the problems with interpreting a still image, I may still be wrong. Just as the officials may have been wrong, who also got to see it in real time just the once and made their decision accordingly (and, ultimately, stuck to it despite all of the arguing, pushing and shoving that followed for the next several minutes). Given all of this, even if we had VAR it is not certain that it would constitute a clear and obvious error and VAR be called upon.

My view is that this caused such a problem for two reasons. First, the ref was poor throughout - and totally lost control of the decision-making process at this point (taking the time to consult both linesmen is one thing, but appearing to flip-flop on a critically important decision is not good). Second, the result of the match really mattered to both teams.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Chaos

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:27 pm

Agree with all of that. No system, even VAR, is perfect. Sometimes fans and managers just need to accept that you get the run of the green on some decisions and not on others. And luck also has a relationship with quality - if Bradford has scored into an open goal, it wouldn’t have been a goal kick, and if Mackie hadn’t converted excellently, there wouldn’t be an issue.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: Chaos

Post by OtmoorYellow » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm

Dr Bob wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 am
Awful performance in front of goal, with too many players off-form, not passing, and generally failing to hit a cow's arse with a banjo - but what a superb bit of control and volley from Mackie. Ignoring everything else, that was a quite brilliant goal - even more so given the time and context of the match when it happened.

As for the rest, It was neither a corner nor a penalty - their player missed under pressure from a defender. Goal kicks can be taken with players in the box if they are not interfering with play. EFL on Quest highlights confirm they were not. I always pay close attention to goal kicks played short (an odd habit of mine) and the ball only just crossed the line before Ruffs touched it, but it was definitely out of the box.

Frankly the ref was poor all game, with no real control of events. And as for the City manager, maybe he believes was he said, maybe he was just really frustrated, maybe he was covering and looking for excuses to distract from a very poor performance from a poor side - but simply he was wrong with every argument he made.

Kashi was excellent in the first half (speed of thought and passing were fantastic), but having been booked for a truly deliberate pull back near the end (talk about taking one for the team - in the seconds before it happened, he was almost shouting his intentions), he should have got a second yellow 5 seconds later for the way in which he kicked the ball away. Long is really starting to look very good indeed. Nelson was imperious again. Whyte was great attacking players but utterly rubbish at shooting. That said, despite so much inconsistency we were still by far the better team.
I agree with this word for word and you’re not the only one who watch for things like ball exiting the area (other favourites of mine are keeper’s handling of the ball around the edge of the area, and foot off ground by throw in taker).

The highlights don’t show the ball at point of contact because whoever was manning the camera failed to pan around in time. That being the case, even VAR may not have helped.

It was a fantastic piece of finishing by Mackie. Perhaps he could take training this week for the banjo wavers.

recordmeister
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Re: Chaos

Post by recordmeister » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:18 pm

A foul is only a foul if the ref sees it, and gives it. You’re not out in cricket if the Umpire doesn’t give you out. Even if your stumps fly out of the ground. The same is true in football: it only happens (or doesn’t happen) if the ref says so. He said ‘goal’ and so a goal it is.

The ayes have it. The ayes have it!

OUFC4eva
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Re: Chaos

Post by OUFC4eva » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:23 pm

At 90+3 as Doyle rolled the ball across the area for O’Brien to tap home at the back post, we were most probably done.

How on earth did we manage to find ourselves counter attacked like that with seconds to go against a really poor
Bradford outfit after complete domination?

Thirty seconds later at 90+4 we were looking at three precious points as Mackie, ice cool, volleyed home with aplomb.

The referee then took centre stage in what looked like a conspiracy ! It was an agonising six minutes of pure confusion
and chaos. I really feared the worst when Mackie sunk to his knees.

I wonder if there will be any ramifications for referee Davies this week.

By the way what happened with Marcus Browne - did he walk off the pitch of his own volition before the final whistle?
Something happened. Read elsewhere that he will be disciplined internally.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Chaos

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:46 am

Dunno what it was like in the stadium - it was torture listening on RadOx trying to work out what was going on! Mackie's finish must have been something pretty special to witness - those moments are what make football so special.

Massive, massive goal too - one that might well relegate Bradford, just as their 93rd minute chance would have left us in serious trouble had it gone in. Could that be the turning point on which our season hinges? I fancy there will be more drama to come. I've never seen a table so tight at this stage of the season, with three points separating relegation and top half. At least it gives us some hope before my first visit to Coventry next week...

ty cobb
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Re: Chaos

Post by ty cobb » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:04 pm

Actually fair play to the officials here. The wording in the rulebook is at best ambiguous and as such I am not surprised they weren't 100% aware of what the rule was (depending on what they were checking - I assume not whether the ball had crossed the line as no point in consulting the other lino if that was the case!). It was clear in the comments on Radio Oxford and the manager interviews that other people didn't know either. The rule is
Procedure

The ball must be stationary and is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team
The ball is in play when it leaves the penalty area
Opponents must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play
So that is pretty clear...........expect one of the Q&As linked to the rule sets out
Q2: Why is the goal kick retaken if an attacking player who was in the penalty area when the goal kick was taken is the first player to touch the ball outside the penalty area?
This is to prevent the attacking player gaining an advantage from being in the penalty area which is not permitted by Law 16. The player is NOT penalised with a free kick as the goal kick is often taken before the player has had time to leave the penalty area.
which clearly allows for the possibility of an attacker being in the box when the kick is taken. It is only offence is the attacker then tries to play the ball, otherwise would get all sorts of time wasting going on.

Instead of being pig headed the ref took his time, spoke to all officials and came to the correct view. Would have been all too easy to just stick to the goal kick he had given and wave away protests. By taking the time to get it right I think he did an excellent job, although he could have helped himself if he hadn't have given a goal kick in the meantime.

I would be amazed if the ball hadn't left the area as Ruffles would have know not to touch it until it had.

Massive massive win especially with AFC picking up wins now. Looking forward to Cov on Sat now, as a I keep saying we are a good team, we just don;t have a good striker (although credit to Mackie for a cracking finish).

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Chaos

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:15 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:04 pm
Instead of being pig headed the ref took his time, spoke to all officials and came to the correct view. Would have been all too easy to just stick to the goal kick he had given and wave away protests. By taking the time to get it right I think he did an excellent job, although he could have helped himself if he hadn't have given a goal kick in the meantime.
Agreed. It's easy to understand why people were so critical given the confusion and the critical nature of the decision - but the ref did the right thing taking his time. Fair play.

Anyone know what the story is re: Marcus Browne? I heard Robbo say something about imminent internal discipline for him, but wasn't clear as to why - did he walk off the pitch before the final whistle, or was that Chinese whispers?

OtmoorYellow
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Re: Chaos

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:13 pm

In situations like Saturday, it might well be helpful if the ref had a mike linked to the PA system, like in egg chasing, so the crowd also new what was happening.

Boogie
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Re: Chaos

Post by Boogie » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:46 pm

A real Wow at last!

I went with a Bradford fan who said we deserved to win 3-0 but the chaos was even better for being next to one.

My head was in my hands with relief after the Bradford miss so I didn't pay attention again until Ruffs passed to Gavin, so after the goal I had absolutely no idea about the quick goal kick argument.

4 neutrals I also went with said they enjoyed our passing game despite the weather and were all off their seats when the Mackie volley went in.

A match that will live long in the memory.

Dr Bob
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Re: Chaos

Post by Dr Bob » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:46 am

Boogie wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:46 pm

A match that will live long in the memory.
Well, from the fourth minute of added time on...

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