Sunderland

Anything yellow and blue
recordmeister
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Sunderland

Post by recordmeister » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:47 am

Anyone make banners? If so, given their 60%+ vote for Leave, can someone do a ‘Welcome to the Special Place’ banner to welcome the Sunderland fans on Saturday?
Last edited by recordmeister on Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Werthers Original
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Werthers Original » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:56 am

I remember the footage of large men cheering aggressively at the Brexit vote. They must have a special sense of irony given that Nissan will inevitably leave and leave their area even more god forsaken

recordmeister
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Re: Sunderland

Post by recordmeister » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:05 am

And the special irony of the fans having to drive past a working car plant en route to the ground

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:10 pm

"Stand up if you still make cars..."

OtmoorYellow
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Re: Sunderland

Post by OtmoorYellow » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:20 pm

I know it's only intended to be a bit of humorous banter, but I find some of the above comments a bit distasteful, not to mention inaccurate.

The Qashqai development is being moved to Japan primarily because of lack of desire for diesel vehicles in Europe, but popularity in Asia. No one is losing jobs as a result. Nissan will just not be creating the planned additional jobs. The other productions are unaffected.

Even so, losing your livelihood is no laughing matter, particularly if you are low paid and struggling anyway.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:48 pm

OY - that's fair enough, but I think recordmeister's point (and he'll doubtless correct me if I'm misrepresenting it) was that those who voted for Brexit and find that there are reduced employment prospects in their region as a result will be reaping what they have sown.

I'm sure we'd all have sympathy for the kids who'll be going hungry as a result of the turbulent economic climate, and perhaps this is therefore an opportune moment to remind people that there is a foodbank collection around the ground on Saturday. I'm sure posters on this board who are going to the match will be contributing generously.

Werthers Original
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Werthers Original » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm

Not meaning to gloat over kids going hungry, obviously. But voting to leave the EU when you live in a poor area that relies on a foreign motor company for work seems foolish to me.

Werthers Original
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Werthers Original » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:42 pm

Or we could revive 'You look in your dustbin for something to eat ...'

tomoufc
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Re: Sunderland

Post by tomoufc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:58 pm

I voted remain, but I absolutely detest the kind of class bigotry on display here. Those that think we'll reverse Brexit on the back of more working class suffering in places like Sunderland, completely misunderstand the complex politics behind Brexit. Places like Sunderland have been completely left behind by a political class whose priority is London and its place in the global financial system.

And if you're looking for a destroyed car industry, have a look around you on Saturday afternoon. That happened while we were in the EU, and the East side of Oxford have suffered ever since, compounded by austerity. I'm not saying it was the EU's 'fault', but it happened in the context of EU membership, within the context of institutions set up to promote the German car industry above much else. When you do, make sure you chuck some baked beans in that collection bin, and at least one of our local children will have something to eat that evening.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

OtmoorYellow
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Re: Sunderland

Post by OtmoorYellow » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:18 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:48 pm
OY - that's fair enough, but I think recordmeister's point (and he'll doubtless correct me if I'm misrepresenting it) was that those who voted for Brexit and find that there are reduced employment prospects in their region as a result will be reaping what they have sown.
My point is that there are no projected job losses in the area as a result of Nissan, or Brexit for that matter, so the point of reaping what you sow is invalid. Further more, even if there were projected job losses, reaping what you sow is not a valid argument to mock those affected by such a horrible plight.

I speak as someone who grew up in severe poverty (in so far as that exists in this country), and I can tell you it ain't nice. I also speak as a very strong pro-Brexit voter who cannot stand the lies and propaganda and misinformation put out about the Brexit debate from both leavers and remainers.

recordmeister
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Re: Sunderland

Post by recordmeister » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:45 pm

Adjusted my post to focus away from employment or otherwise, to refocus on what I was really aiming at: Sunderland returning the first Leave majority of any part of the UK, as that is the main cut-and-thrust of my point... look at the turmoil we have around us. I’ve heard people who voted Leave claim that they didn’t vote for this. But they did. They voted for something knowing there was no plan. So they voted for turmoil. And Sunderland is a place that lauded this; lauded the Leave vote, which for me is pretty unforgivable.

Isn’t it time we found some satire in this? Wasn’t there a time when we could have satirical political banners at football (‘Aldridge Strikes Faster Than Maxwells Printers’ meets the old football banner of ‘Welcome To Hell’) to throw some satirical light onto our visiting fans on Sat and make them and their team feel as unwelcome as possible between 3pm and 4.45pm. After that it’ll all be back to normal business.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:56 pm

OY, happy to agree to disagree with you, save to highlight that it’s undeniable that Brexit will be reducing employment prospects in the north-east (and I chose that wording deliberately to reflect the fact that it’s a lack of new jobs rather than the loss of existing ones). And whilst I’m sympathetic to anyone who can’t get a job and support their family, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that people were warned by companies like Nissan of the impact of a Leave vote on industry and so can’t complain if they have now got what they voted for.

I’ll leave my contribution at that. I like the people on this board and genuinely enjoy reading their opinions on footballing matters. I don’t want to have my view of them (or their view of me) clouded by our political leanings.

Dr Bob
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Re: Sunderland

Post by Dr Bob » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:21 pm

tomoufc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:58 pm
And if you're looking for a destroyed car industry, have a look around you on Saturday afternoon. That happened while we were in the EU, and the East side of Oxford have suffered ever since, compounded by austerity. I'm not saying it was the EU's 'fault', but it happened in the context of EU membership, within the context of institutions set up to promote the German car industry above much else.
Sorry, but this is a gross misrepresentation of what ailed the UK car industry and led ultimately to the disappearance of British Leyland. There are plenty of tomes that set out the general problem of arrogant post-war UK management, lacking insight and vision, resulting in a lack of planning, investment and foresight, which affected plenty of industries, including the car industry. On top of this, we had in the 1970s (again, economy-wide) a decade of major industrial disruption, with Red Robbo in Birmingham (and someone in Oxford whose name escapes me) being at the forefront of strikes. We also started to see Japanese cars coming in, in increasing numbers (not German, Japanese) which, because of just in time production methods and demanding quality standards, were way better than UK cars. By the time we get to the Single European Market in 1993, the UK car industry was, in terms of large scale, dead in the water. Where it has been resuscitated, it has been (ironically) led by those same Japanese companies (and, of course, German in Oxford, on a smaller scale). Much of this happened post-1973, but the origins go back well before then - and any suggestion that being in the EU at that time ("the context of EU membership", as you put it) caused these problems is rubbish.

There is one over-riding characteristic that unites almost all of the parts of England that voted Leave - economic precarity. That was not caused by being in the EU and will not be helped (quite the opposite is far more likely) by leaving the EU.

This has some evidence:
https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... exit-62138

We have got much more material, some of which is focused specifically on the precarity issue. If you are interested, message me.

tomoufc
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Re: Sunderland

Post by tomoufc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm

Dr Bob wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:21 pm
tomoufc wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:58 pm
And if you're looking for a destroyed car industry, have a look around you on Saturday afternoon. That happened while we were in the EU, and the East side of Oxford have suffered ever since, compounded by austerity. I'm not saying it was the EU's 'fault', but it happened in the context of EU membership, within the context of institutions set up to promote the German car industry above much else.
Sorry, but this is a gross misrepresentation of what ailed the UK car industry and led ultimately to the disappearance of British Leyland. There are plenty of tomes that set out the general problem of arrogant post-war UK management, lacking insight and vision, resulting in a lack of planning, investment and foresight, which affected plenty of industries, including the car industry. On top of this, we had in the 1970s (again, economy-wide) a decade of major industrial disruption, with Red Robbo in Birmingham (and someone in Oxford whose name escapes me) being at the forefront of strikes. We also started to see Japanese cars coming in, in increasing numbers (not German, Japanese) which, because of just in time production methods and demanding quality standards, were way better than UK cars. By the time we get to the Single European Market in 1993, the UK car industry was, in terms of large scale, dead in the water. Where it has been resuscitated, it has been (ironically) led by those same Japanese companies (and, of course, German in Oxford, on a smaller scale). Much of this happened post-1973, but the origins go back well before then - and any suggestion that being in the EU at that time ("the context of EU membership", as you put it) caused these problems is rubbish.

There is one over-riding characteristic that unites almost all of the parts of England that voted Leave - economic precarity. That was not caused by being in the EU and will not be helped (quite the opposite is far more likely) by leaving the EU.

This has some evidence:
https://theconversation.com/hard-eviden ... exit-62138

We have got much more material, some of which is focused specifically on the precarity issue. If you are interested, message me.
Thanks. The point I was making is that some remainers are drawing a line of casualty from the Brexit referendum result to Nissan's production plans, when what we're probably witnessing is a correlation, whose casual relationships are likely much less direct. It's as ridiculous as saying the EU, and predecessor organisations, were at fault for the destruction of Oxford's car industry.

FWIW, blaming unions for it is wrong, albeit a common trope propagated by the right. The unions bent over backwards to keep substantial car production in Oxford. Global competition is a more compelling reason, from Asia yes, but Germany also. What's striking about the success of the latter has been governments working with unions rather than against them, and willingness to tax and spend to invest infrastructure, education and R&D. That said, the motor industry seems to be in terminal crisis the world over - just wait till the car finance bubble explodes!
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

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Re: Sunderland

Post by Hog » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:31 pm

Bloody brilliant! Brexit finally comes to Rageonline.

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