Robinson Out

Anything yellow and blue
Kairdiff Exile
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Robinson Out

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:07 pm

I said on a post-match thread a few weeks back that any manager deserves ten league games to show what they can do. Well, KR has had that, and there’s no arguing with the facts.

We are second bottom.
His formation is toilet.
We have a gazillion creative midfielders but can’t score.
He signed those gazillions creative midfielders but no proven striker.
His post-match interviews are insulting to our intelligence.
Key players (Nelson) are not signing new deals.

Time to go. If we’re about to have a shedload of money pumped into us by Mr Inter Milan, then get on the blower to Appleton and ask him his price. Failing that, poach Mike Flynn from Newport County.

recordmeister
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by recordmeister » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:50 pm

Seconded

I mean, even if we’d won today, I’d say that 8 points from 10 games is sackable form.

I honestly can’t listen to another word he says, his interview style is so poor. Mildly forgivable if we are winning, perhaps. Yet it adds compound interest to the results as they are.

Dr Bob
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:59 pm

His post-match interviews are so bad they are becoming funny (or would be if our club were not in such a dire position). He persists with a formation that is not leading to the creation of decent chances. Watching the lowlights again Wimbledon online, too often the shots towards goal were panicked hoofs. No point commanding the middle of the pitch ((c) KR) if we cannot defend or score. Frankly, under KR we are rubbish.

That said, is now really the time to sack him?

Eh??

We are, apparently, in the middle of a takeover that will take weeks, at least, to complete. Getting rid of KR now will leave us managerless, potentially, for those weeks and longer. Recall less than a year ago - how well did we do during the exact same situation? Would people suggest giving Chrissie A the reins as caretaker? Even if KR is dead man walking, the wider context makes me think that now is just too soon. Unless people think things really cannot get any worse and that we should make a change now, regardless. But given where we have been in the not very distant past, how dangerous is it to think that the only way is up?

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:47 pm

Dr Bob: you’re quite right that we need to learn lessons from last season regarding managerless spells during a takeover. But the lesson from last season wasn’t that you should stick with a failing manager - it’s that you shouldn’t delay appointing a replacement.

If Sumrith Thanakarnjanasuth has any sense, he’ll realise that KR’s management of the team is going to lower the price of his product. Sack him, appoint a competent replacement quickly, hope that results improve and get the sale through.

That will cost money, as will paying off KR (rumour has it he’ll be rolling in it if we fire him - which speaks volumes about whoever drew up the contract on our side). But it’ll be money well spent if the alternative is sticking with KR ad infinitum during a protracted takeover, and Div 4 football next season.

Dr Bob
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Dr Bob » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 pm

Who said anything about ad infinitum? Appoint a competent replacement - of course. Pay KR off - of course. Avoid 4th division football - of course. Quickly - ideally, although getting the right appointment is presumably more important? Hope that results improve - no shit. Get the sale through - if the new man has sound intentions and is fit and proper, then fantastic.

But that still leaves the fact (and I believe it is a fact) that during the uncertain times of a takeover, the individuals involved will be extremely reluctant to take such a major decision as this. The only possible exception I can envisage is if the takeover is so close and so certain that the current owner would make the move with the agreement of the soon-to-be new owner, who then, behind the scenes, has a major hand in choosing the new manager.

Another history lesson might be Gary Waddock and whether having a manager in for a short time, starting to make changes then being removed by a new owner, might possibly have added to the problems faced by Appleton until he steadied the ship? Just a thought. I of course cannot know for sure.

But perhaps my first comment was not well-enough worded. I am not particularly in favour of waiting - other things being equal. But they are not. I just think that any decision on KR will involve waiting, given the context of a takeover. And maybe, just maybe, that might possibly be in the club's long term interests.

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:35 pm

I think we’re basically in agreement, actually. But my point is that although the rumour mill suggests the takeover is imminent, it’s quite conceivable that it could take longer to complete (like Thanakarnjanasuth’s did last year) or not happen at all (like Sartori’s). If that were to happen, and KR were left in situ during the talks, we could really be in the shit, no matter how much money got thrown at a new manager in January.

You’re right that it’s still a risky approach, but on balance I’d still advocate sacking KR, identifying an out-of-work solid Div 3 manager who’d be prepared to consider a short-term contract, and getting them to steady the ship.

I cannot see a scenario whereby our fortunes improve with KR at the helm - and that, to me, makes it a no-brainer. Takeover or no takeover.

YF Dan
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by YF Dan » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:50 pm

I guess the longer that Mapp is out of work, the more chance he might come back to us.

Other option: how about the Cowley bros at Lincoln who are performing miracles.

But agree, I’ve had enough of Robinson. Although given that we bought him out of a contact at Charlton, (how they must have laughed) and the amount we’ll have to pay him off, can there have been a more expensive mistake in our club’s history?

Wow indeed.

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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:29 am

In general I'm not in favour of getting rid of managers who either are doing an ok (if unimpressive) job or haven't been given enough time. I didn't want Wilder to go, and when he did our form got worse not better. I didn't want Clotet to go - and again our form got worse not better when he was sacked. In each case a change of ownership was on the cards, and we dithered making an appointment (and in each case made a bad one). We tend to do badly when we change manager. Even our best recent manager (Appleton) had a torrid start. Only Wilder has hit the ground running in recent memory.

Having said that, Robinson has had 20 games and done nothing. His points per game over those 20 matches is 0.8. (Pep Clotet's short-lived reign yielded 1.31 ppg - better by a massive margin, and on course for 60 points over the season, yet he was still hounded out by our trigger-happy fans).

Do I want Robinson to continue? No, not really. But I worry what will happen either way, especially with rumours of yet another club sale. Also, the last league game I watched was at Sunderland - a really quite impressive performance. So we know that Robinson can motivate his players to perform, he's just not doing it nearly enough. If he can get four points from the next two games I'd give him a chance to prove himself a little longer. But time's definitely running out.

Myles Francis
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Myles Francis » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:28 am

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:29 am
Also, the last league game I watched was at Sunderland - a really quite impressive performance. So we know that Robinson can motivate his players to perform, he's just not doing it nearly enough.
I would suggest that it actually demonstrates the complete opposite. It's a bit of a cliche, but the players should be able to motivate themselves for a game such as Sunderland away. It's getting them going on a cold Tuesday night where a manager earns his crust...

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Re: Robinson Out

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 am

It would be bonkers to appoint a new manager during the middle of a takeover, unless both the existing and prospective owners were in agreement. Otherwise you'll just get yet another short term appointment.

If KR is to be sacked, AND if there is a takeover in the offing, we would have to have a caretaker in charge. I'm not worried about that because it is very difficult to imagine anyone having a worse record than KR. Our form can't dip because it is already at rock bottom.

The question that springs to my mind is why would Tiger be selling up so quickly? If he hasn't got the cash, why buy the club in the first place, unless he was just a stalking horse.

Let's face it, we knew our club was in a mess in not taking ownership of the ground, under several successive owners, but now we really are in a dire position. Division 4 looms, we have a manager who couldn't buy a win, numerous players allegedly very unhappy with KR, Cameron Norman being forced to train with the kids, An owner who bought the club just a few months ago and now appears to want out, major disputes with the stadium landlord over significant unpaid bills. You couldn't make this stuff up. It is precisely how not to run a football club.

Whether you believe KR should be sacked or not, he is at least living on a razor's edge. In most cases you would want to give a manager more time, but there always has to be something positive to cling on to, in order to justify giving more time. In this case, I'm struggling to see any positives.

I'm not going to say KR out just yet, but I want a convincing win tomorrow against LooTown Town. Another harrowing home defeat and it surely then must be time.

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Re: Robinson Out

Post by ty cobb » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:43 am

Who would people rather have Robinson or Derry and Faz? Because until the takeover (is there really one happening?) is completed then that is the choice.

I would rather have Robinson - he has done well where he has been before. His record should be taken into account, he is clearly a decent manager. He also has not got a good striker. If we'd have gone into last season with Obika as our number one striker we would have got relegated. Is this due to Robinson, or a lack of funds. He wanted Lyle Taylor (5 goals in 10) but the money wasn't there. Or did he blow it on a load of good midfielders?

I wonder if Tiger is full of hot air to be honest. I'm not sure our budget is WOW and we are in profit from our transfer dealings in the summer. However, I also think our recruitment of players has been poor. We either have players at the start of the career or player who have reached their peak and are on their way down. We are missing players such as Wright, Hylton, Maguire, Sercombe, MacDonald who were at the peak of the career and who knitted the younger players into a winning unit.

All the good work of the last few years is quickly becoming undone. Robinson has many faults (not accepting responsibility, shouting at the 4th official, sticking with a failed system) but he has a decent record and been very unlucky with injuries. If we haven't got someone better lined up give him a chance to put it right especially if Faz is next in line. Key players are coming back from injury and he should be given a chance to show us what he can do with a full team. How he will do that given our strikers is beyond me though!

Radley Rambler
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Radley Rambler » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:01 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:29 am
In general I'm not in favour of getting rid of managers who either are doing an ok (if unimpressive) job or haven't been given enough time. I didn't want Wilder to go, and when he did our form got worse not better. I didn't want Clotet to go - and again our form got worse not better when he was sacked. In each case a change of ownership was on the cards, and we dithered making an appointment (and in each case made a bad one). We tend to do badly when we change manager. Even our best recent manager (Appleton) had a torrid start. Only Wilder has hit the ground running in recent memory.

Having said that, Robinson has had 20 games and done nothing. His points per game over those 20 matches is 0.8. (Pep Clotet's short-lived reign yielded 1.31 ppg - better by a massive margin, and on course for 60 points over the season, yet he was still hounded out by our trigger-happy fans).

Do I want Robinson to continue? No, not really. But I worry what will happen either way, especially with rumours of yet another club sale. Also, the last league game I watched was at Sunderland - a really quite impressive performance. So we know that Robinson can motivate his players to perform, he's just not doing it nearly enough. If he can get four points from the next two games I'd give him a chance to prove himself a little longer. But time's definitely running out.
Can he or was it that:

- Most of our players were playing in the best stadium they've ever played in and in front of the biggest crowd with an impressive away following roaring them on
- We played against 10 men for most of the game

Radley Rambler
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Radley Rambler » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:14 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:43 am
Who would people rather have Robinson or Derry and Faz? Because until the takeover (is there really one happening?) is completed then that is the choice.

I would rather have Robinson - he has done well where he has been before. His record should be taken into account, he is clearly a decent manager. He also has not got a good striker. If we'd have gone into last season with Obika as our number one striker we would have got relegated. Is this due to Robinson, or a lack of funds. He wanted Lyle Taylor (5 goals in 10) but the money wasn't there.

He did but at the fans forum, he said that Taylor wanted to stay in London (Joey Beauchamp#2?) and so he therefore, wasn't a realistic target. He said at the April fans forum that he wanted to sign two strikers and we've got Smith/Mackie - his signings so he has to be held account for this.

Or did he blow it on a load of good midfielders?

Well he blew the majority of it on Jamie Hanson who has looked mediocre at best. If I recall correctly, he said at the time that this was more important that spending it on a striker - different message coming from him now isn't there.......

I wonder if Tiger is full of hot air to be honest. I'm not sure our budget is WOW and we are in profit from our transfer dealings in the summer. However, I also think our recruitment of players has been poor. We either have players at the start of the career or player who have reached their peak and are on their way down. We are missing players such as Wright, Hylton, Maguire, Sercombe, MacDonald who were at the peak of the career and who knitted the younger players into a winning unit.

All the good work of the last few years is quickly becoming undone. Robinson has many faults (not accepting responsibility, shouting at the 4th official, sticking with a failed system)

Agreed - I'm getting fed up with his rants and no Karl, it isn't the ref's fault - it's yours for recruiting badly and then sticking to a system that the players clearly can't manage. And it's always someone else's fault, victim culture, on Saturday he said that he can't be held responsible for players not taking chances. Er.....yes you can Karl because you recruited the players and then set the system/tactics. I bet if we'd banged in 4 a game, he'd be telling us how well his recruitment and tactics were allowing this to happen

but he has a decent record and been very unlucky with injuries.

Has he got a great record? One promotion and one relegation in eight seasons - pretty meh if you ask me. As for injuries, Eastwood's freak injury aside, we've had a few but I'd wager not many more than other clubs and is this due to the 'hard as nails' pre-season and recruiting crocks? As for Rob Hall, we all knew that was high risk given his record


If we haven't got someone better lined up give him a chance to put it right especially if Faz is next in line. Key players are coming back from injury and he should be given a chance to show us what he can do with a full team.

He said 'judge me in October' - well here we are and I know what I think

How he will do that given our strikers is beyond me though!

Correct - see above, is it time for a false number nine? Do you think our squad could understand that??

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:52 pm

I agree completely with RR above. Apart from being (mildly) unlucky with injuries, the problems are entirely of KR's own making.

On Otmoor Yellow's post, one observation and one question:
OtmoorYellow wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 am
The question that springs to my mind is why would Tiger be selling up so quickly?
I presume it's because he's been offered enough money that he could sell at a profit, and has probably also realised that a small short-term profit is a much more likely outcome than a long-term one given the stadium situation.
OtmoorYellow wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:38 am
Cameron Norman being forced to train with the kids
I believe you, but is there a source for this? Disgraceful if so (and if based on performance alone rather than attitude etc). He's been a bit inconsistent, but he was MoTM against Burton and has looked far better at RB than McMahon.

Just finally, I cannot think of Karl Robinson anymore without picturing a failed Apprentice candidate (go with me here). Imagine him sat in Alan Sugar's boardroom after a failed task, having brought back in there with him everyone else he blames for his failure - the chairman for not giving him more money, Firoz Kassam for the state of the ground, the concept of injuries and every referee in the Football League. He talks a good game, he looks flash - but then Sir Alan scrunches up his face and says: "It's pretty bloody clear Karl that the failure of this task was down to your decision not to sign a proven Division 3 striker. You don't win games without scoring bloody goals. And for that reason, Karl, I am sorry to say... you're fired."

Myles Francis
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Re: Robinson Out

Post by Myles Francis » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:19 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:43 am
we are in profit from our transfer dealings in the summer.
If only we were. Any profit has been trousered by the previous owner...

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