Stadium (again) - fans forum

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Dr Bob
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Dr Bob » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:57 pm

Gastonray wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:45 pm

Personally i don't believe a word the man (kassam) says.
And he differs from other owners we have had how, precisely? Not defending Kassam, merely suggesting that words are cheap (unlike football stadia).

recordmeister
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by recordmeister » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:37 pm

A big question is: does it matter where we play, if 3pm KO games are going to be shown on iFollow (the International Week a good example)? I mean, can we really look to fill a 15k cap stadium each week, and even if we do what are the benefits to the club coffers? The more important aspect is can Tiger monetise the band abroad and can we move all the offices / backroom stuff to the new training facility? If so, what we really need is a 10k cap ground with four sides, and the ability to grow the ground should we make it up the leagues.

Yes, there might be a case to say that the club could earn from a wholly owned stadium on the 350 other days a year that football isn't being played there, but what is the realistic demand for conferencing in the Oxford city area esp when most of the collages offer that, too. I worry that 'live' football is a dying art, and what we need is a place to premiums the experience of seeing a lower league football match which then plays into the idea of it being a 'brand home' (to steal a drinks industry phrase).

You'll note you CANT get a Singer beer at the ground. What good is that to a sponsor?

Radley Rambler
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Radley Rambler » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:32 pm

Gastonray wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:45 pm
Roo are Mr Merry in disguise and i claim my prize.


Personally i don't believe a word the man (kassam) says.
I know Roo and he wears socks (occasionally quite natty ones) so he can't be Mr Merry.

Hog
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Hog » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 pm

I'm with YF on this one re coughing up now to buy the current stadium and the sooner the better to avoid paying the 'million' a year for the remaining seven years although it's quite likely of course that FK will say he wants the rent for the remaining contract on top of the sale price even if 'we' buy it tomorrow. I'd have thought the last thing we'd want to do is share at a non-league (or any) ground.

If these new board members (and prospective investors) are as rich as we are led to believe then surely £20m is just small change between three of them?

But it's nice to know the local councillors are stepping up to the nice seats for the Man City game plate. Let's hope we have a good FA cup run to keep them interested.

I've listened to the forum on FB and it was, frankly, embarrassing. All of them. Tiger was slow and awkward even allowing for English not being his first language, the Scots fellow changed the subject mid topic without warning, offered platitudes about five options with no evidence at all and was fawning in his praise of Robinson and Robinson was, well, Robinson, especially when he confirmed what a great manager (he thinks) he is!

The meeting really was a shit or bust moment for the regime and it managed to be both!

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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Roo » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:36 pm

Hog wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 pm
I'm with YF on this one re coughing up now to buy the current stadium and the sooner the better to avoid paying the 'million' a year for the remaining seven years although it's quite likely of course that FK will say he wants the rent for the remaining contract on top of the sale price even if 'we' buy it tomorrow. I'd have thought the last thing we'd want to do is share at a non-league (or any) ground.

If these new board members (and prospective investors) are as rich as we are led to believe then surely £20m is just small change between three of them?

But it's nice to know the local councillors are stepping up to the nice seats for the Man City game plate. Let's hope we have a good FA cup run to keep them interested.

I've listened to the forum on FB and it was, frankly, embarrassing. All of them. Tiger was slow and awkward even allowing for English not being his first language, the Scots fellow changed the subject mid topic without warning, offered platitudes about five options with no evidence at all and was fawning in his praise of Robinson and Robinson was, well, Robinson, especially when he confirmed what a great manager (he thinks) he is!

The meeting really was a shit or bust moment for the regime and it managed to be both!
Good points about the new investors, including Tiger and their relative wealth BUT I refer you to my earlier comment.

I don’t think Kassam has any intention of selling. It’s a great opportunity to say the right things, whilst standing his ground. There’s a massive amount of money to be made from building housing on this site and he’d be stupid to walk away from it.

He doesn’t think he owes us anything whatsoever, it’s a commercial deal.... and he usually wins those.
His history shows no compassion whatsoever on other deals. He rides roughshod over them and if you wish to get into a very expensive legal argument you may.... but good luck.

Specific examples of this are how he’s dangling Oxford City Council on a string, because they’re afraid of challenging him regarding The Priory and the absolute Carcrash regarding the Alexandra Palace deal.

Look into those confrontations and you’ll find the mark of the man.

neilw
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by neilw » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:57 am

In order to buy the ground there has to be a willing seller. There isn’t. There won’t be until it’s full value can be realised through alternative use of the land on which it sits.

The current license isn’t a liability. It’s the one thing we have to use as leverage. Do you not think the owner would like nothing more than to release us of our obligation, enabling him to push ahead with the final stage of his grand project. The (part) construction and subsequent destruction of a stadium is just a mid term annoyance in a long term project of commercial and residential property development. From day one, the owner has played a blinder. He’s a master at his immoral game / gain.

Dr Bob
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Dr Bob » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:07 am

Silly question time - what would we get if we bought 'the stadium'?

How much of the surrounding area would come with this? Would we have to pay extra to get sufficient land to build a fourth stand? And what would reduced car parking mean for a stadium with increased capacity? Whilst I can see all of the arguments presented in support of buying the stadium, I am also not yet convinced that there is a long term future at that location for a competitive championship team...unless a lot more money was to be spent (by one of the councils?) on improved infrastructure - in addition to the much-mentioned railway station.

Rocks and hard places all around...

Radley Rambler
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Radley Rambler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am

I did go to the fans forum and amongst some of the chaff, there were some nuggets of hope.

- The realisation (albeit post-due diligence phase) that FK will not sell to them unless for megabucks is refreshing. It normally takes an owner 4 years to reach this conclusion and so Tiger has saved himself 3.5 of those.

- The 5 options is interesting and Niall has set an expectation of announcements in 4-5 weeks. This is a very reasonable timeframe and doesn't keep us hanging on with false hope. If of course that timescale comes and goes, we can ask probing questions. I had a 1-1 session with Niall afterwards and will respect the confidentiality of that conversation but suffice to say Kernow Yellow, the preferred plans meet your 'redlines'!

- The Inter Milan link - from what I have read about him, if Erick Thohir joins this could be a seismic shift in our ability to perform as a club and really look at a new stadium. KR said on a few occasions that there is 'really exciting news' coming - now I know he can overpromise at times but I'm hopefully putting 2+2 together to make 4.

So.......in summary - in a month's time the whole landscape might have changed or we could be exactly where we are today - same old, same old!

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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Myles Francis » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:35 am

Some random thoughts on all this.

- The deliberate misinformation from the club about how much we are paying Firoka really doesn't help. As I understand it, the club does have grounds to query what they are being asked to pay in the service charge, but portraying the situation as we are being asked to pay £1m/year rent is daft.

- Not long ago, OxVox carried out a supposedly detailed study into all potential stadium options, and concluded that staying at the KasStad was the only viable one. I've always had doubts about this, because whichever way you slice it, the club is put in a pretty poor position. We'll either be buying a stadium which needs substantial amounts spent on it to bring it up to a decent standard, plus whatever would need to be spent on a fourth stand, or entering into another lease agreement which is likely to result in the club being responsible for paying for improvements but not benefitting from the capital asset.

- Who are these new directors? What are they actually bringing on board? To date, it appears that they haven't invested any equity into the club, so what are they providing? The club has the problem of an absentee owner and a part-time MD. The sensible appointment here would be somebody who can be hands-on at the club on a much more regular basis, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

- I was surprised that the OxVox update which came a day or two after their appointment made absolutely no reference to them coming on board.

- Apropros of nothing, why do we have a disproportionate number of players represented by one agent?

Werthers Original
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Werthers Original » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:08 pm

- Apropros of nothing, why do we have a disproportionate number of players represented by one agent?
And why do we seem to deal a lot with particular clubs? Mansfield, Macclesfield, Everton, etc. Is it because people know each other and are 'good lads' or is it again some sort of agent tie-up?

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Kernow Yellow » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:08 pm

Myles Francis wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:35 am
- The deliberate misinformation from the club about how much we are paying Firoka really doesn't help. As I understand it, the club does have grounds to query what they are being asked to pay in the service charge, but portraying the situation as we are being asked to pay £1m/year rent is daft.
Indeed. My guess is that £1m is the total amount being asked for this year (the year's rent plus all the service charge arrears). Why not just say that £0.5m (or £0.6m or whatever) a year is ridiculous for the facility we're getting? Why make up figures?

Regarding the new directors (and the proposed new investor), one thing they do seem to have is plenty of money. Maybe they're waiting to see what these stadium options are before committing too much? Let's face it, they haven't come along to watch/contribute to OUFC bumbling about in League 1 while paying rent at the Kassam for another however many years, so if the/a ground can't be sorted I don't suppose they'll be hanging around for long.

The whole future of the club comes down to the bloody stadium, and we've all known it for years. Ian Lenagan and his hasty club purchase really does seem to have quite a lot to answer for when it comes to our current predicament.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:07 pm

Radley Rambler wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am
- The 5 options is interesting and Niall has set an expectation of announcements in 4-5 weeks. This is a very reasonable timeframe and doesn't keep us hanging on with false hope. If of course that timescale comes and goes, we can ask probing questions. I had a 1-1 session with Niall afterwards and will respect the confidentiality of that conversation but suffice to say Kernow Yellow, the preferred plans meet your 'redlines'!
I'll believe it when I see it! I heard Saturday's RadOx interview with Kassam yesterday evening, and it was a lot more forthright even than the OxMail article. He was pretty scathing of our owners ('idiots trying to make money out of the club') and MD ('get one that understands football matters'). He may just be calling the club's bluff and trying to bully them into dropping the arbitration, but he seemed pretty bullish about the fact that OUFC wouldn't be going anywhere (or its owners buying the stadium) anytime soon.

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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:52 pm

I've just listened back to the interview. Very robust - confrontational - language from Kassam. I did struggle to keep a straight face when he talked about "idiots trying to come in, make money out of the club and get out again". Heaven forbid, eh Firoz?

It really just underscored what has been said above. He's not going to sell, he's not going to compromise on the service charge. If we want to own our own stadium, it will need:

a) Some serious connections to make it happen (planning permission, infrastructure);
b) Some serious bunce to build it;
c) Further serious bunce to pay Kassam what he thinks he's owed, or go to court;
d) An honourable owner who won't then do to us what Kassam has.

Hard to feel optimistic, frankly.

Radley Rambler
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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by Radley Rambler » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:07 pm
Radley Rambler wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am
- The 5 options is interesting and Niall has set an expectation of announcements in 4-5 weeks. This is a very reasonable timeframe and doesn't keep us hanging on with false hope. If of course that timescale comes and goes, we can ask probing questions. I had a 1-1 session with Niall afterwards and will respect the confidentiality of that conversation but suffice to say Kernow Yellow, the preferred plans meet your 'redlines'!
I'll believe it when I see it! I heard Saturday's RadOx interview with Kassam yesterday evening, and it was a lot more forthright even than the OxMail article. He was pretty scathing of our owners ('idiots trying to make money out of the club') and MD ('get one that understands football matters'). He may just be calling the club's bluff and trying to bully them into dropping the arbitration, but he seemed pretty bullish about the fact that OUFC wouldn't be going anywhere (or its owners buying the stadium) anytime soon.
Well ok, I agree that we have had some false hope before and as per my post, at least we have a short term timeline in which we have been told the options will be presented. FK would be pretty scathing of the folk that he isn't getting on with wouldn't he particularly after they've publicly criticised him. As for 'get an MD that understands football matters', I don't recall one being in place under FK's tenure so if that's important (which of course it is) why didn't he have one in place? Wrt OUFC going anywhere soon, if (and it's a big if) the money becomes available and planning permission can be gained, what actually can he do about it? Wrt the owners buying the stadium, well they're not looking to as all of the past experience and evidence suggests it will never happen.

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Re: Stadium (again) - fans forum

Post by slappy » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:08 pm

I don't have a problem with owners who want to make money from the club by getting it promoted a few divisions and becoming a more attractive buy to the next owner. I think where Kassam is very wary is that another stadium owner makes money from the stadium that he could do, for short term gain.

Last night for instance we could all see the potential to "finish off" the stadium with a fourth stand and filling in the corners, which although expensive would presumably take us up to a reasonable size championship level capacity. It only takes one stadium owner to fill in the corners with flats to forever limit the ground's capacity to be expanded.

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