No more Payne

Anything yellow and blue
OtmoorYellow
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No more Payne

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Recalled by Huddersfield apparently.

Talented player, but Pep clearly didn't want to play him in behind a front 2, and none of our strikers are good enough to play the lone front man role.

Dr Bob
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Dr Bob » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:09 pm

With the rumours also suggesting he is to go to Blackburn instead. Double bugger.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:16 pm

I've no idea how these loan deals work, but wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go to a club that's happy to pay a larger proportion of his wages than we were. I certainly can't believe Huddersfield want him for their squad in the PL at the moment.

Or maybe we weren't that keen on keeping him if there was no chance of him joining permanently later on?

Old Abingdonian
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Old Abingdonian » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:06 pm

Unless the Oxford Mail and Payne are better at misleading the public than I think they are, the article surely suggests that this was Huddersfield's instigation. I suspect contribution to salary is likely to be the answer.

Dr Bob
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Dr Bob » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:38 pm

Old Abingdonian wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:06 pm
Unless the Oxford Mail and Payne are better at misleading the public than I think they are, the article surely suggests that this was Huddersfield's instigation. I suspect contribution to salary is likely to be the answer.
If true - and I suspect it may well be - then this merely reinforces the view that in order for us to survive in the Championship, we shall need either a new owner or someone alongside Eales who can put in a lot more cash.

Old Abingdonian
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Old Abingdonian » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:41 am

Sadly, I agree.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: No more Payne

Post by OtmoorYellow » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:31 am

I don't see the point of bankrolling and potentially bankrupting the club just to survive in the Championship. I would rather the club kept largely within its affordability, and if that means we bounce between the Championship and League 1, so be it.

Jimski
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Jimski » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:46 pm

Absolutely - I've always thought our "natural level" was exactly that, bouncing between the second and third tiers.

Dr Bob
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Dr Bob » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 am

Jimski wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:46 pm
Absolutely - I've always thought our "natural level" was exactly that, bouncing between the second and third tiers.
Likewise. My earlier comment was what I considered to be a 'statement of fact', or at least a realistic assessment of achieving Eales's aim of Championship football. Mine own view of 'natural level' is exactly the same as thine.

Old Abingdonian
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Old Abingdonian » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:01 pm

In this context, the hysterical and vitriolic criticism, especially of Eales, on the other forum is worrying. Some of this is from kids, but some is from supporters who should know better.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:28 pm

Old Abingdonian wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:01 pm
In this context, the hysterical and vitriolic criticism, especially of Eales, on the other forum is worrying. Some of this is from kids, but some is from supporters who should know better.
Agree, but it's the way the world works now sadly. Just look at twitter to see how being rude to - and about - people has become the norm.

Back to the Payne situation, and here's a question: If a club agrees a 'season-long' loan for a player, is it reasonable for the parent club to recall him during that loan just to send him out again somewhere else? I could understand it if we weren't giving him enough game time and/or didn't rate him, or a club at a higher level were offering him better experience. But to have him taken away for (presumably) financial reasons seems to go against the spirit of the original fixed-term agreement...

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:00 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:28 pm
Back to the Payne situation, and here's a question: If a club agrees a 'season-long' loan for a player, is it reasonable for the parent club to recall him during that loan just to send him out again somewhere else? I could understand it if we weren't giving him enough game time and/or didn't rate him, or a club at a higher level were offering him better experience. But to have him taken away for (presumably) financial reasons seems to go against the spirit of the original fixed-term agreement...
I think the Payne loan deal came with a break clause so that they could recall him in January if they wanted to. Just like we have a clause allowing us to recall Hemmings if he was scoring bagfuls of goals and we wanted to bring him back. So legally, they're within their rights. Morally, it sticks in my craw too that they were happy to loan him to us for the season and happy (presumably) for him to get plenty of first-team experience but then bumped us as soon as they could get more £££ for his services and arguably lend him to a better-performing team.

slappy
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Re: No more Payne

Post by slappy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:51 pm

OtmoorYellow wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:31 am
I don't see the point of bankrolling and potentially bankrupting the club just to survive in the Championship. I would rather the club kept largely within its affordability, and if that means we bounce between the Championship and League 1, so be it.
I think there are several aspects to this.
1 - the club being able to survive in League 1. There is still the inherent loss each year before player transfers and cup runs, which have possibly repaid the losses incurred since Eales took over, perhaps more even? But without those two, how long can Eales fund the club in League 1. Player wages are presumably a bit higher than L2, and I don't think tv money / solidarity payments make up for it.
2 - a realistic push for promotion to the Championship. A top two budget would be quite a bit more than we have at the moment, and even a top six budget leaves you at the chance of play-offs.
3 - survival (or not) in the Championship. The swiss ramble blog http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=ipswich shows just how far down the league we would be for player budgets, probably at least bottom three or four, and you can see that Burton are just about clinging on.

I don't particularly think Eales is looking for a partner to invest in the Championship, more to offload the club (at a profit) to someone considerably richer with resources to give the Championship a good go.

Dr Bob
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Dr Bob » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:28 pm
Old Abingdonian wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:01 pm
In this context, the hysterical and vitriolic criticism, especially of Eales, on the other forum is worrying. Some of this is from kids, but some is from supporters who should know better.
Agree, but it's the way the world works now sadly. Just look at twitter to see how being rude to - and about - people has become the norm.

Back to the Payne situation, and here's a question: If a club agrees a 'season-long' loan for a player, is it reasonable for the parent club to recall him during that loan just to send him out again somewhere else? I could understand it if we weren't giving him enough game time and/or didn't rate him, or a club at a higher level were offering him better experience. But to have him taken away for (presumably) financial reasons seems to go against the spirit of the original fixed-term agreement...
Seeing him go to another League 1 club was what really irritated me about this.

Werthers Original
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Re: No more Payne

Post by Werthers Original » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:32 pm

Blackburn, Wigan, Charlton etc are almost a mini-league of their own in terms of resources, though. We'll be fine - we're better off finding our own players and developing them for a profit.

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