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Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:29 pm
by Hog
Crikey! Assuming 50 is the magic number do you really think we can't achieve 12 more points from 19 games?

Have a look at the current form guide on this table and hopefully you'll feel a little better!

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:21 am
by Dr Bob
Last season we finished 8th, but that was the only time we ever reached that high - and we did so (of course) only on the last day of the season. Most of this season, we have been there or thereabouts (8th-10th seeming to be our par score so far), despite losing our manager late on in the close season, several key players, and then having to make at least some signings late on in the start-of-season transfer window, in order to go into the new season with something resembling a squad, rather than just an 18. And we have lost several key players to injury.

Yes I am repeating oft-stated facts, but stated no more often than some seem to be ignoring them.

Would I want us to be higher than 10th? Would I want us to be playing more attractive football? Would I want us not to have lost 0-7 recently? Would I like to see the back of some of the last minute signings from the summer?

And yet perspective does seem to have been lost somewhat. I am not celebrating, but nor am I close to panicking.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:13 pm
by Jimski
No, I mean I'd be very surprised if we didn't stay up now. It's just that (a) there's little point in looking up the table, despite the seemingly narrow gap, as most of those sides up there seem way better than us, and (b) given the way we seem to be playing lately, I'm not particularly confident of points from any given game. Well maybe Bury at home, but even that I wouldn't bet too much money on.. I guess picking up points while playing badly is the sign of a good team or something.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:58 pm
by Jimski
Certainly glad I didn't bet on our beating Bury at home. Blimey, we aren't much good are we. Thank goodness for that points cushion. Even so, it would be good if someone could point me to where we get the 12 points. If we do get drawn into a relegation battle, I don't fancy our chances. We have not an ounce of battling spirit.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:10 pm
by Werthers Original
Jimski wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:58 pm
Certainly glad I didn't bet on our beating Bury at home. Blimey, we aren't much good are we. Thank goodness for that points cushion. Even so, it would be good if someone could point me to where we get the 12 points. If we do get drawn into a relegation battle, I don't fancy our chances. We have not an ounce of battling spirit.
There is no translation for ‘up for it’ in Catalan.

That really was bloody awful, even though if it hadn’t been for Tiendallis back pass we would have won. We have no spine, no vigour, no spirit. Fat lazy players like Mowatt who can be skilful when things are going well but will be no help in a crisis.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:25 pm
by Radley Rambler
It was very poor but if we'd held on (which we should have), we'd be 5 points off the play-offs and 11 points ahead of relegation. We also have Brannagan and our Swedish 'International' to come in.

Season over but I'm not panicking about relegation.

Please do bookmark this so that you can remind me of it in May when we need to win at Blackburn to stay up.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:52 pm
by Werthers Original
I’m sure we will get more good results this season but there is something so weak and unconvincing about us. As you say, I hope the new lads will be the answer

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:41 pm
by Kairdiff Exile
Jesus. A four hour round trip in the freezing cold for that... A few thoughts:

1) Werthers Original is right that we don’t have enough players who are either tough enough to boss a match against a team like Bury or professional enough to kill a game like that off. That is predominantly the fault of a Head Coach for not buying players who can do that and/or coaching the ones we’ve got to do it.

2) A linked point: if Buckley-Ricketts is the answer, then I can only assume the question was “Name a player who can do a fancy step-over and then give away possession 20 times during an afternoon.” Malachi Napa looks a far better prospect, if only because if he comes good then he’ll be our asset and not Man City’s.

3) I am very much in the “judge Pep at the end of the season” crowd. But even so, I swear I could do his post-match interview myself by now. “We need to fffokkus...”, “...individual mistakes cost us...”, “...these are things we talked about in training...” AAARGH!! And if he DID shush the fans behind the dug-out after the goal, it was a monumentally stupid thing to do. If you do that after a winner against a good side, you’ve made your point - if you do it in a game you ultimately lose to the worst side in the whole ruddy league, you’ll look like a tit.

4) Mehmeti isn’t the answer on that performance. I can’t see why we’d persist with him when Hemmings - who has demonstrated he can score at this level - is available for a recall.

5) I still don’t think we’ll necessarily get dragged into a relegation dogfight - but we have to stop chucking away games. What we’d give for a few lions in there. Confidence must be shot to bits, and something needs to address that fast.

6) To finish on a positive, let’s have a word for Aaron Martin and Candice Carroll, both of whom have substantially enhanced their reputations over the last six months. Martin is a better defender than many of us first thought, whilst Carroll is good enough to make the cut at this level. He was also noticeably desperate to quicken the pace and salvage something in the dying minutes - unlike many of the players around him.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:14 pm
by OtmoorYellow
That really was a miserable showing against a shit side that we made look slightly less shit.

It was the sort of result and more importantly performance that could cost the club support, and our home attendances are dropping.

We have too many players who are mediocre at this level and do not fight for the ball, let alone a result, let alone a win, let alone a performance.

I'm talking of Mowatt - too slow, too lazy, does none of the hard yards and gives the ball away too much.
Henry ditto, and can't take on a defender, moans and whines about his team mates constantly, when he himself is making the mistakes. How many times did he give the ball away?
Obika didn't win a single header and over a period of time has shown he doesn't perform well one on one with the keeper.
Mehmeti is either unfit or disinterested. A very limited forward making no runs, not making himself available and doing none of the defending from the front. Seems to want to fall over and claim a foul every time he is tackled.
Mousinho possibly the worst centre back at the club in 20 years. No pace, no stamina, bad positioning, bad passing, easily beaten, doesn't defend crosses, can't head the ball, thinks he is better than he is fannying around trying to out turn attackers in our own penalty area. I really don't see that he brings anything of use to the table. He was badly at fault for one of the goals yesterday because he couldn't be bothered to move his arse to defend.
Ruffels is an average defensive midfielder at this level and is too inconsistent.
Ditto Ledson
That Tiendalli was probably our best outfield player speaks volumes, because he isn't worth his wages.
And we've got to look forward to Riccardinho coming back as the only left back at the club, even though he makes big mistakes every match.

I'm not going to pick on the new lad as at least he had a go, and showed a bit of pace and trickery. He was chopped down by the Bury thugs at every opportunity and some weak refereeing did little to help. He might be a little lightweight in the strength department, but he is young.

Excluding new boy, the only players from yesterday that would warrant a place in the first team are Martin (and we might not have said that 6 months ago) and Eastwood, who will probably be snapped up before the end of the month.

Clotet's substitutions and tactical changes were baffling yesterday. Switching to a lone striker when only 1-0 up and playing poorly, was never going to help score a second and kill them off.

And, how come we've signed yet another crock? Brannagan injured before he even touches the ball. Bloody hell, what are the club doing to these players to make so many injured, and now Thomas out again.

So far this has been the most miserable season since we were relegated from the League. A record defeat against Wigan and now a home defeat (and the double) from the worst team in the division, and the division this season is really not very good compared to previous years. No decent cup runs other than the Checkatrash Roguetrader Trophy and that has been more due to the way the competition is structured than decent play.

Things are beginning to take shape on the management front. Poor signings, masses of injuries, signing old has beens, poor tactical decisions and no plan B, our fantastic passing game from the last few seasons has been obliterated by Tippy Tappy along the back line until we are pressured into losing the ball. And gesturing silence to the home fans by both Clotet and Henry when we scored, even though victory was far from certain, was not clever at all.

Having been firmly in the give Clotet time camp, I am now very much in the Clotet has a lot to prove in a short space of time camp. The present circumstances cannot be allowed to continue or a relegation dog fight will undoubtedly follow, and that would be completely unacceptable.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:25 pm
by Werthers Original
But apart from that it was ok?

Agree that there is a bad atmosphere in general - no flags , little vocal support, everyone leaving after their second, that weird shushing

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:55 pm
by Dr Bob
I cannot agree that this league is weaker than in previous seasons, but the point is that regardless of how good teams like Blackburn and Wigan are, we have just had the double done over us by the bottom team in the division - who had not even scored a single goal in the previous 8 games. For me, the biggest problem was how we set up. 4-4-2 is all very well, but when the wide midfielders lined up alongside the forward two - repeatedly - and when Mowatt kept dropping deep, we were basically playing 5-1-4. No wonder the defenders had the choice either to pass it around at the back or to hoof it long in the hope that Obika in particular could win a header - we effectively had no midfield. When Tiendalli got forward, linking up with Buckley-Ricketts on the left, our formation was more or less a circle around the edge of the pitch. Absolutely bizarre.

Yes Mehmeti fell over a lot, but for someone just coming back from injury he showed a lot of energy and movement. I am loathe to criticise him and Obika too much on a day when they got so little service or support (that criticism may come later, of course...)

All season, Clotet and the players have absolutely not, publicly, criticised individuals by name for mistakes. I did wonder, when Ruffels criticised Tiendalli for the backpass, whether things are not all sweetness and light behind the scenes? Or am I reading too much into his obvious frustration?

Still not panicking though

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:28 pm
by Kernow Yellow
This shushing business sounds pretty bad. But I was shocked listening on RadOx to hear a significant number of our fans loudly booing their own team after only 30 minutes of the match. WTF? Sitting tenth in L1, and on the back of two straight home wins, and they're getting the bird when they're not even losing. I can understand Pep's frustrations. He's doing better thus far than our last manager did in his first season, with a team suffering from key injuries and into which he's trying to introduce some new signings, and still he's getting abused from the stands before we've even got to half time.

Clotet might work out for us and he might not. He's less likely to succeed when getting dog's abuse from people sitting a few yards behind him though...

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:36 pm
by Werthers Original
I am coming round to the view that even with all the injuries and other problems he’s not doing a very good job - he doesn’t seem to know his best team or even what he’s trying to do. But still the abuse he’s getting is disproportionate. Brexit angle, anyone? Cultured, sophisticated Euro manager driven out by down to earth shouting Brexiters?

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:43 pm
by Hog
I was flabbergasted that the London Road thought it was appropriate to sing Maguire's name loudly (the only time they were loud in fact) whilst the game was in progress including when he was attacking our goal! By all means give him a warm welcome before the game but not when the match has started and your own team are struggling (but not losing). Completely bizarre! I'm not condoning the shushing gestures which were obviously ill-advised but understand their point.

Re: When do we start panicking?

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:49 pm
by Old Abingdonian
I didn't enjoy yesterday at all. Of course not. But I agree the abuse is disproportionate, and I also detect a level of xenophobia in fans' comments, and especially the criticism of his post-match interviews. Appleton was no genius in terms of analysis on Radox, and under Appleton there was a failure to dominate at home which, sadly, continues.

I am not seeking to 'excuse' yesterday, but would point out that we were without Nelson, Hall, Thomas, Richardinho and Rothwell. I suspect neither Ledson nor Raglan was fit to start.

What I think remains to be seen is whether Clotet can command the dressing room like Appleton clearly could.