End of the 50:50

Anything yellow and blue
OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:06 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:30 pm
I don't think fans have put in more than Eales so I'm afraid I disagree with you. But then that's probably because I'm not silly enough to think fans paying to attend a match is the same as the money Eales has stuck in.

We are millions in debt and trying to save up to buy a stadium. Once the debt has been paid off and we own our stadium I'll start to take your view that's fans are being ripped off more seriously but the fact we may be making a small profit after years of large losses do not strike me as a good reason to stop increasing revenues where we can.
Are those supposed to be joke arguments? Well they made me laugh anyway.

Fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think that fans buying match tickets is purely about being "entertained" for 90 minutes.
And fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think that Eales puts money into the club for the love of it.
And fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think the club are "saving up" to buy the stadium.
And you define rip off however you want. For me, being the 2nd most expensive club in the division is a huge undermining of your non-argument.

ty cobb
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by ty cobb » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:38 am

While I welcome a new face to this forum I do wonder if you're one of these trolls I hear so much about, just here to put a ridiculous view across to cause trouble. Anyway I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and engage with you.............

Fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think that fans buying match tickets is purely about being "entertained" for 90 minutes.
Really - what else do you think its for? Do you think paying £20 to watch a game of football gives you a stake in how the club is run? Sorry to break it to you but we ain't a community club and if we were your £20 still wouldn't buy you a stake.

And fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think that Eales puts money into the club for the love of it.
I don't think any of us think this - he is a business man who treats this as a hobby but will want a return at some point.

And fortunately for me, I'm not silly enough to think the club are "saving up" to buy the stadium.
Well Eales and OxVox both seem to be trying to buy the stadium. As Pauls excellent report shows in recent weeks not owning the stadium is putting us at a significant disadvantage. Do you think the club don't want their own stadium?

And you define rip off however you want. For me, being the 2nd most expensive club in the division is a huge undermining of your non-argument.
What are you basing this on? As I have pointed out on the season ticket thread we are pretty standard pricing for a club trying to get in the championship in our part of the world. You seem to want Eales to stick money into a club he doesn't love (your words) but it's not reasonable for the supporters who do love the club to pay a bit more. We have one of the best squads in years playing at the highest level for years with a very good shout of promotion. Yet you continue to snipe at out chairman who is paying for most of it - how bizarre.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:44 pm

I'm not going to stoop to your name calling Ty Cobb.

I think most people regard OUFC as considerably more than 90 minute entertainment packages. I think you will be very much in the minority with your contrary view.

As neither of us knows Eales, neither can claim to know his motives. We each simply have a differing view. There are few wealthy businessmen at Eales level, who invest millions for a hobby. To excessively defend Eales contribution and seek to diminish fans contributions as you have done seems very strange, but again that's up to you and there is no value in arguing about it.

Everyone bar you (apparently) are aware that Kassam has publicly refused to sell to Eales, so to say he is saving up to buy the stadium is factually inaccurate and misleading. Similarly OxVox have about a 4 figure sum in the bank, which won't even pay for 4 days rent, let alone buying the stadium, so again you are using false arguments to try to emphasise a case. Furthermore, the club are not saving to buy the stadium either, and OxVox have never intended to buy the stadium, but have proposed a new community trust to buy it, not that a new trust will ever have the funding necessary, or be able to let the stadium to OUFC at an affordable rent, or even be able to persuade Kassam to sell. Your use of these arguments as a defence to putting up 50:50 draw tickets is your most laughable reply yet.

Only 13 million more tickets to be sold to have enough "saved up".

slappy
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by slappy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:55 am

I actually managed to buy one of these lottery tickets on Saturday and noticed it now says promoter OUFC.

There is the question raised of whether supporters should be 'subsidising' the running of the club. Over the three and a bit years that Eales has owned the club I still reckon that before transfer fee income it loses at least £1million per year, so the club has to try and get revenues from all angles, ticket prices, programmes, lottery, sponsorship etc.

Apart from Kassam, I don't think any owner has actually made money from the club, but until Eales can actually sell up for more than he's put in, us as fans have to pay our fair share. I'm not even sure I beleive that our ticket prices are 2nd highest in the league. Or is this about the SSU premium seats?

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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by ty cobb » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:48 pm

OtmoorYellow wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:44 pm
I'm not going to stoop to your name calling Ty Cobb.

I think most people regard OUFC as considerably more than 90 minute entertainment packages. I think you will be very much in the minority with your contrary view.

As neither of us knows Eales, neither can claim to know his motives. We each simply have a differing view. There are few wealthy businessmen at Eales level, who invest millions for a hobby. To excessively defend Eales contribution and seek to diminish fans contributions as you have done seems very strange, but again that's up to you and there is no value in arguing about it.

Everyone bar you (apparently) are aware that Kassam has publicly refused to sell to Eales, so to say he is saving up to buy the stadium is factually inaccurate and misleading. Similarly OxVox have about a 4 figure sum in the bank, which won't even pay for 4 days rent, let alone buying the stadium, so again you are using false arguments to try to emphasise a case. Furthermore, the club are not saving to buy the stadium either, and OxVox have never intended to buy the stadium, but have proposed a new community trust to buy it, not that a new trust will ever have the funding necessary, or be able to let the stadium to OUFC at an affordable rent, or even be able to persuade Kassam to sell. Your use of these arguments as a defence to putting up 50:50 draw tickets is your most laughable reply yet.

Only 13 million more tickets to be sold to have enough "saved up".
There are some very odd points in the above post. Saying the club should look to raise revenue where it can is excessively defending Eales? Saying parting with £20 on a match day doesn't give you a stake in running the club is in my mind a fact and not diminishing fans at all - fair play to any fan who parts with their hard earned to watch us, but last time I checked I didn't have a say in the running of the club because I turned up to watch us. OxVox have in the past, but not so much anymore. As I could join Oxvox and not pay OUFC a penny if I wanted to it's a non argument anyway.

I believe the long term goal of the club at least is to own a stadium, be it the Kassam or somewhere else. That's whats publicly been stated and although Kassam is playing silly buggers that may change. If not OxVox, albeit through a trust, were leading negotiations to buy the stadium although that has gone very quiet. My view is that taking this route gives Kassam room to put off selling the stadium to Eales which I assume is why he got so annoyed when OxVox said heads of terms by end of last season. When the time comes to buy the stadium, or move, I'd rather the Eales had some capital to be able to do that, or do you think he should spend every last penny he/the club have on chasing promotion?

You keep making points which bear no relation to reality (2nd expensive tickets in the league for example) and seemingly fail to grasp the fact that Eales has put more into the club then he has got out of it whilst getting us promoted, running the club really well, putting together a squad and management team who have played the best football we have seen in years. Which regime do you want to go back to - IL and Nick Merry, Kassam, Heard, Maxwell? Eales seems to be doing a pretty decent job in comparison with these, however, I'm sure you'll argue that my saying Eales is better than Nick Merry is excessively defending him.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:01 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:48 pm
OtmoorYellow wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:44 pm
I'm not going to stoop to your name calling Ty Cobb.

I think most people regard OUFC as considerably more than 90 minute entertainment packages. I think you will be very much in the minority with your contrary view.

As neither of us knows Eales, neither can claim to know his motives. We each simply have a differing view. There are few wealthy businessmen at Eales level, who invest millions for a hobby. To excessively defend Eales contribution and seek to diminish fans contributions as you have done seems very strange, but again that's up to you and there is no value in arguing about it.

Everyone bar you (apparently) are aware that Kassam has publicly refused to sell to Eales, so to say he is saving up to buy the stadium is factually inaccurate and misleading. Similarly OxVox have about a 4 figure sum in the bank, which won't even pay for 4 days rent, let alone buying the stadium, so again you are using false arguments to try to emphasise a case. Furthermore, the club are not saving to buy the stadium either, and OxVox have never intended to buy the stadium, but have proposed a new community trust to buy it, not that a new trust will ever have the funding necessary, or be able to let the stadium to OUFC at an affordable rent, or even be able to persuade Kassam to sell. Your use of these arguments as a defence to putting up 50:50 draw tickets is your most laughable reply yet.

Only 13 million more tickets to be sold to have enough "saved up".
There are some very odd points in the above post. Saying the club should look to raise revenue where it can is excessively defending Eales? Saying parting with £20 on a match day doesn't give you a stake in running the club is in my mind a fact and not diminishing fans at all - fair play to any fan who parts with their hard earned to watch us, but last time I checked I didn't have a say in the running of the club because I turned up to watch us. OxVox have in the past, but not so much anymore. As I could join Oxvox and not pay OUFC a penny if I wanted to it's a non argument anyway.

I believe the long term goal of the club at least is to own a stadium, be it the Kassam or somewhere else. That's whats publicly been stated and although Kassam is playing silly buggers that may change. If not OxVox, albeit through a trust, were leading negotiations to buy the stadium although that has gone very quiet. My view is that taking this route gives Kassam room to put off selling the stadium to Eales which I assume is why he got so annoyed when OxVox said heads of terms by end of last season. When the time comes to buy the stadium, or move, I'd rather the Eales had some capital to be able to do that, or do you think he should spend every last penny he/the club have on chasing promotion?

You keep making points which bear no relation to reality (2nd expensive tickets in the league for example) and seemingly fail to grasp the fact that Eales has put more into the club then he has got out of it whilst getting us promoted, running the club really well, putting together a squad and management team who have played the best football we have seen in years. Which regime do you want to go back to - IL and Nick Merry, Kassam, Heard, Maxwell? Eales seems to be doing a pretty decent job in comparison with these, however, I'm sure you'll argue that my saying Eales is better than Nick Merry is excessively defending him.
Of course now your points have been laughed out of sight, you change your argument to claim your answers fit. There is no point discussing anything with you whilst you do this, as you simply change the parameters all the time, and try to put unspoken words into the mouths of others. No doubt you will now try to claim you haven't done so.

Mud slinging, straw man arguments, changing your argument to suit your answer, demanding answers to issues not even being discussed as if this supports your case. Is it any wonder the forum is so sparsely populated?

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:07 pm

slappy wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:55 am
I actually managed to buy one of these lottery tickets on Saturday and noticed it now says promoter OUFC.

There is the question raised of whether supporters should be 'subsidising' the running of the club. Over the three and a bit years that Eales has owned the club I still reckon that before transfer fee income it loses at least £1million per year, so the club has to try and get revenues from all angles, ticket prices, programmes, lottery, sponsorship etc.

Apart from Kassam, I don't think any owner has actually made money from the club, but until Eales can actually sell up for more than he's put in, us as fans have to pay our fair share. I'm not even sure I beleive that our ticket prices are 2nd highest in the league. Or is this about the SSU premium seats?
Nothing to do with SSU Premium seats ;-)

I read that somewhere that we are one of the most expensive. Might even have been on here... I'll check the other club's pricing.

Eales has done a fantastic job on almost everything until this season's pricing and for me the 50:50 is one step too far, which is why I'm moaning about it.

ty cobb
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by ty cobb » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:56 pm

Are you feeling ok Otmoor - your posts are getting more and more confused. In your original post you said that the club were very unwilling to spend money and complained about Eales putting season ticket prices up. To back this view up you then said that we had the second highest ticket prices in the division. I simply asked you to demonstrate this as I don't think it's the case.

So I am simply trying to discuss an issue that you had raised.

And actually I don't see much support at all for your view of "ripping fans off" or "pure greed" or Eales has obtained a great deal of money from the fans, typically by overcharging or swindling them.

I do wonder if you're one of the fans Paul refers to in his excellent report on the Gills as you seem to have an axe to grind with Eales.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:50 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:56 pm
Are you feeling ok Otmoor - your posts are getting more and more confused. In your original post you said that the club were very unwilling to spend money and complained about Eales putting season ticket prices up. To back this view up you then said that we had the second highest ticket prices in the division. I simply asked you to demonstrate this as I don't think it's the case.

So I am simply trying to discuss an issue that you had raised.

And actually I don't see much support at all for your view of "ripping fans off" or "pure greed" or Eales has obtained a great deal of money from the fans, typically by overcharging or swindling them.

I do wonder if you're one of the fans Paul refers to in his excellent report on the Gills as you seem to have an axe to grind with Eales.
There you go again Ty, doing all the things I said in my previous post. I don't want to be rude mate, and I'm sure you are a lovely chap in real life, but I would prefer not to be having discussions with you on here. Life is far too short for personal digs, putting words into people's mouths and twisting arguments to claim you've been proved right, when the opposite is true.

ty cobb
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by ty cobb » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:55 am

Yes Otmoor I did think you would respond with ridiculous accusations like I'm putting words in your mouth. That's why I quoted you - the words used are entirely your own.

I actually find it quite amusing you're getting so worked up by the club offering raffle tickets at the same price as they were being offered previously.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:40 pm

ty cobb wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:55 am
Yes Otmoor I did think you would respond with ridiculous accusations like I'm putting words in your mouth. That's why I quoted you - the words used are entirely your own.

I actually find it quite amusing you're getting so worked up by the club offering raffle tickets at the same price as they were being offered previously.
You are being childish and pathetic Ty and I don't get worked up about anything, though I can understand why you might want to attribute diversionary negatives.

Purely for the record and to clear this up, here is my original post:

"I see the club have effectively announced the end of the 50:50 half time draw, where 50% of receipts go to the club and 50% to the winner.

The top prize is now restricted to £750 with a couple of dubious value 2nd and 3rd prizes to try to give the changes more credibility.

I wouldn't mind a restricted top prize, if the 50:50 principle remained by giving cash prizes to 2nd and 3rd.

I think this is a somewhat parsimonious way to treat fans and extract even more money from us.

The club need to be very careful with their pricing. We've seen big increases since Eales took over in season ticket prices, replica kit prices, restaurant prices, and now this.

Given that Eales has stated that the club is now profitable, there is no justification in ripping fans off."

Where in that post did I use the words "the club were very unwilling to spend money and complained about Eales putting season ticket prices up."?

You haven't quoted me at all. Nowhere in that post have I mentioned anything about the club not spending money, there isn't even a complaint about the season ticket prices in there, just a statement of fact, and Eales is only mentioned in regards to confirming that the club being in profit.

You make it up as you go along Ty and it is very odious. You are like a dog with a bone, refusing to accept you might be wrong.

Now take a big deep breath Ty. No one will think any less of you for either not replying, or acknowledging inaccuracies in what you say. This is a tiddly football forum, in the grand scheme of life it really is very very unimportant.

ty cobb
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by ty cobb » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:30 pm

I used quote marks here "ripping fans off" or "pure greed" which you directly used in your post. I also included the definition of fleeced, again a word you used. The example you used (which I didn't quote) was the definition of parsimonious which is another word you used. do you understand the words you are using, you seem to be suggesting you didn't say these things, then copy out again where you did use them.

As for not complaining about season ticket prices - to quote you again

We've seen big increases since Eales took over in season ticket prices, replica kit prices, restaurant prices, and now this.

Given that Eales has stated that the club is now profitable, there is no justification in ripping fans off."


That to me reads as it you are complaining about season ticket prices are increasing as fans are being ripped off. Especially when you also said

with massive hikes in ticket prices for 2017/18, making the club one of the most expensive in the division, it is fleecing the fans to demand more from the half time draw.

and

And you define rip off however you want. For me, being the 2nd most expensive club in the division is a huge undermining of your non-argument.

However, if we agree that the season ticket prices are reasonable then we only seem to disagree that the raffle is either ripping fans off and resulting in them being fleeced (your view) or a reasonable way to raise revenue (my view).

As the raffle hasn't actually gone up in price - it seems a bit of a non issue.

Anyway COYY big test tonight.

OtmoorYellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by OtmoorYellow » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:09 am

These are your words Ty. Copy and pasted from your post:

"In your original post you said that the club were very unwilling to spend money and complained about Eales putting season ticket prices up."

In my previous message, I copy and pasted my original post, which very clearly does not say the things you claim.

Now you are once again trying to change your argument as if to demonstrate to someone, though God only knows who would want to read this rubbish, that you were right all along.

Your efforts are pointless Ty, and I have no interest in repeating points for you to place further false comments. I also have no interest in furthering your ego and desire to be seen to be right.

This is the end of the discussion.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by Kernow Yellow » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:43 am

OtmoorYellow wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:09 am
This is the end of the discussion.
Hallelujah!

Ancient Colin
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Re: End of the 50:50

Post by Ancient Colin » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:45 am

Was anyone else getting Mzuri board déjà vu?

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