Appleton IN

Anything yellow and blue
ty cobb
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Re: Appleton IN

Post by ty cobb » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:50 pm

Myles Francis wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:55 am
ty cobb wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:33 pm
I really don't see how this is being used as a stick to beat Eales with
Hmm, really?

We have/had a manager who has stated that he wants to prove himself as a manager at the highest level. Over the past two seasons he has won promotion and then gone on to finish within touching distance of the play-offs despite not receiving the backing in January which, by all accounts, he had been pledged. He then makes a statement about how he intends to stay at the club provided the club's ambition continues to meet his own, i.e. a serious tilt at promotion to the Championship. We then have Eales making a statement about how he hopes to provide a top-six budget, but this is dependent on a player sale or sales (although a significant number of fans are of the opinion that this was a "promise" of a top-six budget.

In the background, we also now have a club with no effective Commercial Director since Christmas, no Academy Manager since February, no MD since (in reality) February/March - in essence, as oufc4eva has said, a shell of a club.

So, Appleton sees this, sees the budget he's being given, and realises he's being set up to fail here. If we end up plodding along in 10th-ish place he would be seen by the outside world as failing as he's not taken the club forward despite his chairman's public pronouncements about increasing the budget. That reputation he has rebuilt over the past couple of years gets trashed again.

As a result, he's now been given a way out. It's certainly not a good move for career progression as he's effectively going back to what he was doing at West Brom nearly 10 years ago. But that move is almost certainly less harmful than being expected to deliver more with less in his current position.

But of course, none of this can be laid at Eales' door....
Is that the same shell of a club that finished 8th in league one our highest position for years? Wasn't Les Taylor academy manager until recently and we're now advertising for another. Commercial managers have always come and gone - I imagine once they realise they have very limited scope to achieve anything with the stadium situation they think I've done all I can. I'm not sure what our previous MD did really so I don't see that as a great loss especially if Eales is taking on more of that role.

Out of interest from Blackburn, Wigan, Pompy, Bradford, Mk Dons and Pboro do you expect us to have a bigger budget then? If being set up to fail at Oxford United is being able to spend £450,000 on one player last year and £300,000 this year then wow we have moved on a very long way haven't we? Are you expecting more than this? Mapp, as he has before, has gone at the first sign of a much improved offer. He was lucky to get a job with us and the difference between the reaction of him jumping ship and Wilder is remarkable. With Wilder the club was up for sale, he wasn't getting his contract renewed and budget cuts were being made. He took us from the bottom half of the conference and left us in the play offs of league 2. Mapp took us from just outside the play offs to 8th in the league above. Wilder continues to be pilloried by a large section of our fan base despite being proven to have made the right decision for him. Will be very interesting to see where Mapp is in three years time - I will not be surprised if he is an assistant somewhere of back in league 1 or 2. This is not sour grapes, I wish him well, but we are left with some very good players, we are one of the favourites for promotion and the new manager will have all of pre season to make the improvements that need to be made. If he didn't think he could build on last season I would suggest he lacked ambition and confidence in himself.

It's a shame to lose him but the club is bigger than him and Eales is sticking around having invested significantly in the club. He could have sold up, taken the money, but he didn't to so why don't we cut him a bit of slack and see how next season goes - he got the manager appointment right last time why not think he can do it again.

COYY.

Myles Francis
Mid-life Crisis
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Re: Appleton IN

Post by Myles Francis » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:01 am

ty cobb wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:50 pm
Is that the same shell of a club that finished 8th in league one our highest position for years? Wasn't Les Taylor academy manager until recently and we're now advertising for another. Commercial managers have always come and gone - I imagine once they realise they have very limited scope to achieve anything with the stadium situation they think I've done all I can. I'm not sure what our previous MD did really so I don't see that as a great loss especially if Eales is taking on more of that role.
Yep, thanks to a good chunk of momentum taking us to that position. And that final league position shouldn't mask the gaping hole behind the scenes. Richard Blackmore was Academy Manager until February and, it would appear despite no announcement, Les Taylor stepped up as a stop-gap measure.
Out of interest from Blackburn, Wigan, Pompy, Bradford, Mk Dons and Pboro do you expect us to have a bigger budget then? If being set up to fail at Oxford United is being able to spend £450,000 on one player last year and £300,000 this year then wow we have moved on a very long way haven't we? Are you expecting more than this? Mapp, as he has before, has gone at the first sign of a much improved offer. He was lucky to get a job with us and the difference between the reaction of him jumping ship and Wilder is remarkable. With Wilder the club was up for sale, he wasn't getting his contract renewed and budget cuts were being made. He took us from the bottom half of the conference and left us in the play offs of league 2. Mapp took us from just outside the play offs to 8th in the league above. Wilder continues to be pilloried by a large section of our fan base despite being proven to have made the right decision for him. Will be very interesting to see where Mapp is in three years time - I will not be surprised if he is an assistant somewhere of back in league 1 or 2. This is not sour grapes, I wish him well, but we are left with some very good players, we are one of the favourites for promotion and the new manager will have all of pre season to make the improvements that need to be made. If he didn't think he could build on last season I would suggest he lacked ambition and confidence in himself.
Yes, the distinction between the departures of MApp and Wilder is remarkable. Despite this supposed backing from the board, despite his stated desire to manage at the top level, despite MApp's comment at the end of last season that provided he got the backing he wanted to stay, despite the fact that he's had more lucrative offers on the table before now, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind that this is just down to MApp chasing the dollar?

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Appleton IN

Post by GodalmingYellow » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:55 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:35 pm
I think Dan and Shoobedoo are being a bit harsh. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Appleton is on £200k at Oxford, on a rolling one year contract; and he's been offered £500k at Leicester on a three year deal. It's very easy to post on internet forums about lack of ambition or loyalty, but this is his job, and that's a bloody significant improvement to his terms of employment.

When you add in the questions about whether he's being adequately backed to have another good season with Us, not to mention other matters that may or may not be happening behind the scenes which might impinge on the likelihood of short-, medium- or long-term success here (club ownership, stadium ownership, backroom infrastructure etc etc), then who can blame him for going? Even before talk of the Leicester job, the sounds coming out of OUFC were worrying. Indeed look at Appleton's last three or four public utterances, and they're basically all challenging DE to get things put in place for Us to mount a promotion challenge. And none of them seem to have materialised.

I also worry for the forthcoming season. Which is why I thought it was stupid to hold back on a promotion push last season. But I don't necessarily blame Appleton for leaving. And I don't necessarily blame Eales either - the club is millions of pounds in debt already, so why should he guarantee spending that he can't/won't deliver? It's just the reality of clubs our size compared to the colossal spending power of recent Premier League champions I'm afraid...
Because £200k per year just isn't enough for anyone.

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Appleton IN

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:07 am

Myles Francis wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:55 am
ty cobb wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:33 pm
I really don't see how this is being used as a stick to beat Eales with
Hmm, really?

We have/had a manager who has stated that he wants to prove himself as a manager at the highest level. Over the past two seasons he has won promotion and then gone on to finish within touching distance of the play-offs despite not receiving the backing in January which, by all accounts, he had been pledged. He then makes a statement about how he intends to stay at the club provided the club's ambition continues to meet his own, i.e. a serious tilt at promotion to the Championship. We then have Eales making a statement about how he hopes to provide a top-six budget, but this is dependent on a player sale or sales (although a significant number of fans are of the opinion that this was a "promise" of a top-six budget.

In the background, we also now have a club with no effective Commercial Director since Christmas, no Academy Manager since February, no MD since (in reality) February/March - in essence, as oufc4eva has said, a shell of a club.

So, Appleton sees this, sees the budget he's being given, and realises he's being set up to fail here. If we end up plodding along in 10th-ish place he would be seen by the outside world as failing as he's not taken the club forward despite his chairman's public pronouncements about increasing the budget. That reputation he has rebuilt over the past couple of years gets trashed again.

As a result, he's now been given a way out. It's certainly not a good move for career progression as he's effectively going back to what he was doing at West Brom nearly 10 years ago. But that move is almost certainly less harmful than being expected to deliver more with less in his current position.

But of course, none of this can be laid at Eales' door....
"By all accounts" = forum hearsay being turned into faux fact.

The idea that Eales could not obtain a commercial director if he felt it were necessary is quite funny. If there is no one in that position, it is because it is not regarded as a priority, which is understandable given the stadium situation.

Why does the club need an MD? It hadn't had one for donkeys years when Ashton was appointed. When Ashton went Eales took on the duties. The club is a small business in todays terms.

Appleton has confirmed he was given complete backing by Eales.

So no, none of this is Eales' fault and it is nonsensical to think otherwise in my opinion.

I would guess, and it is of course just a personal guess, MApp has taken this decision based on his perception that he could achieve Premiership manager status earlier by moving to Leicester than continue to battle to get promoted again from a tight division.

ty cobb
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 6:55 pm

Re: Appleton IN

Post by ty cobb » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:11 am

Myles Francis wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:01 am
ty cobb wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:50 pm
Is that the same shell of a club that finished 8th in league one our highest position for years? Wasn't Les Taylor academy manager until recently and we're now advertising for another. Commercial managers have always come and gone - I imagine once they realise they have very limited scope to achieve anything with the stadium situation they think I've done all I can. I'm not sure what our previous MD did really so I don't see that as a great loss especially if Eales is taking on more of that role.
Yep, thanks to a good chunk of momentum taking us to that position. And that final league position shouldn't mask the gaping hole behind the scenes. Richard Blackmore was Academy Manager until February and, it would appear despite no announcement, Les Taylor stepped up as a stop-gap measure.
Out of interest from Blackburn, Wigan, Pompy, Bradford, Mk Dons and Pboro do you expect us to have a bigger budget then? If being set up to fail at Oxford United is being able to spend £450,000 on one player last year and £300,000 this year then wow we have moved on a very long way haven't we? Are you expecting more than this? Mapp, as he has before, has gone at the first sign of a much improved offer. He was lucky to get a job with us and the difference between the reaction of him jumping ship and Wilder is remarkable. With Wilder the club was up for sale, he wasn't getting his contract renewed and budget cuts were being made. He took us from the bottom half of the conference and left us in the play offs of league 2. Mapp took us from just outside the play offs to 8th in the league above. Wilder continues to be pilloried by a large section of our fan base despite being proven to have made the right decision for him. Will be very interesting to see where Mapp is in three years time - I will not be surprised if he is an assistant somewhere of back in league 1 or 2. This is not sour grapes, I wish him well, but we are left with some very good players, we are one of the favourites for promotion and the new manager will have all of pre season to make the improvements that need to be made. If he didn't think he could build on last season I would suggest he lacked ambition and confidence in himself.
Yes, the distinction between the departures of MApp and Wilder is remarkable. Despite this supposed backing from the board, despite his stated desire to manage at the top level, despite MApp's comment at the end of last season that provided he got the backing he wanted to stay, despite the fact that he's had more lucrative offers on the table before now, there is absolutely no doubt in your mind that this is just down to MApp chasing the dollar?
I see Blackmore is back - hopefully helps with your concerns in this area Myles?

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