Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

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tomoufc
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:36 pm

For what it's worth, my suspicion is that there's a very lucrative potential real estate deal at the heart of this. This would form: for the City Council, the centre piece of its public-private housing strategy in the South Oxford area, along with a transport link deal with Chiltern Trains to re-open the Cowley line to passenger traffic (with direct trains to London and Oxford Parkway), and further development of high-tech industries as part of its plan to develop a 'Knowledge Spine'; and for Eales a lucrative property investment used in order to bankroll the club. Given, with the latter, we've been here before with Kassam and his hotels and leisure facilities and extortion of OUFC, I think I can see why OxVox is going the way it is.
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:38 pm

Radley Rambler wrote:
Also for the first time that I can recall it makes reference to finding an alternative venue.
I read that as 'doing a Coventry' and pissing off to Northampton for a couple of seasons, perhaps having prepared a legal case that Stadco isn't fulfilling the terms of the license (rental agreement).
Last edited by tomoufc on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:02 pm

There should be no reason why a Heads of Terms cannot be agreed within a couple of weeks, so this should have been completed months ago.

The Heads is only an outline agreement and statement of intent, so does not require much in the way of detail. What is being sold, sale price, parties to the agreement and possibly outline timescales and finance. Anything beyond that is for the final contract. It is very rare for Heads to take this long and for Jem to say he wants Heads by the end of the season is well beyond a reasonable timeframe. If he was saying final contracts by the end of the season, that would make sense, but not Heads.

So there has to be a fair bit of sympathy for the board of directors on this.

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:34 pm

GodalmingYellow wrote:There should be no reason why a Heads of Terms cannot be agreed within a couple of weeks, so this should have been completed months ago.

The Heads is only an outline agreement and statement of intent, so does not require much in the way of detail. What is being sold, sale price, parties to the agreement and possibly outline timescales and finance. Anything beyond that is for the final contract. It is very rare for Heads to take this long and for Jem to say he wants Heads by the end of the season is well beyond a reasonable timeframe. If he was saying final contracts by the end of the season, that would make sense, but not Heads.

So there has to be a fair bit of sympathy for the board of directors on this.
Well I'm not sure. These are tripartite negotiations involving a private company, a trust, and a public administration, all with differing legal constraints, priorities and objectives.
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:04 pm

tomoufc wrote:
GodalmingYellow wrote:There should be no reason why a Heads of Terms cannot be agreed within a couple of weeks, so this should have been completed months ago.

The Heads is only an outline agreement and statement of intent, so does not require much in the way of detail. What is being sold, sale price, parties to the agreement and possibly outline timescales and finance. Anything beyond that is for the final contract. It is very rare for Heads to take this long and for Jem to say he wants Heads by the end of the season is well beyond a reasonable timeframe. If he was saying final contracts by the end of the season, that would make sense, but not Heads.

So there has to be a fair bit of sympathy for the board of directors on this.
Well I'm not sure. These are tripartite negotiations involving a private company, a trust, and a public administration, all with differing legal constraints, priorities and objectives.
That's unrealistic.

A Heads is not a commitment to a deal. That this might involve several funding sources is neither here nor there to a Heads. If Kassam wasn't confident of funds being available, he wouldn't even enter negotiations.

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:18 pm

GodalmingYellow wrote:
tomoufc wrote:
GodalmingYellow wrote:There should be no reason why a Heads of Terms cannot be agreed within a couple of weeks, so this should have been completed months ago.

The Heads is only an outline agreement and statement of intent, so does not require much in the way of detail. What is being sold, sale price, parties to the agreement and possibly outline timescales and finance. Anything beyond that is for the final contract. It is very rare for Heads to take this long and for Jem to say he wants Heads by the end of the season is well beyond a reasonable timeframe. If he was saying final contracts by the end of the season, that would make sense, but not Heads.

So there has to be a fair bit of sympathy for the board of directors on this.
Well I'm not sure. These are tripartite negotiations involving a private company, a trust, and a public administration, all with differing legal constraints, priorities and objectives.
That's unrealistic.

A Heads is not a commitment to a deal. That this might involve several funding sources is neither here nor there to a Heads. If Kassam wasn't confident of funds being available, he wouldn't even enter negotiations.
Realistically, where could these funds come from? I've already pointed out the obvious - that OxVox couldn't afford it. That leaves us with OCC - who have shown little proclivity historically to fund OUFC and are straight-jacketed by Tory austerity cuts anyway. Unless there is a 'third way' here, somehow involving some debt financing involving real estate, which as we all know can give fantastic gains on investment in Oxford. It could be that such a deal would be very complex and need to be picked over by lawyers. It could be that Kassam is waiting to see what article 50 does to real estate prices.

What concerns me most is that I've asked some very basic questions in this thread (and partaken in a bit of speculation) that nobody knows the answers to. History tells us that however well intended, deals done behind the backs of supporters (save for those few party to negotiations) rarely work out well for the supporters themselves.
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:21 pm

Don't take this as me being rude Tom, but I don't think you know what anyone else knows. You only know what they are prepared to tell you, whether that be OxVox, or DE, or individuals.

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:27 pm

GodalmingYellow wrote:Don't take this as me being rude Tom, but I don't think you know what anyone else knows. You only know what they are prepared to tell you, whether that be OxVox, or DE, or individuals.
No rudeness taken :) When did this forum become so polite?

And I agree, what's interesting is what's not being said and by whom.
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by tomoufc » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:57 pm

Looks like some more information on what OCC have planned for the stadium and surrounding areas. Interesting too that these plans are being displayed at the Kas Stad.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/150338 ... f=mrb&lp=5
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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:37 am

Interesting interview with Darryl Eales on RadOx after the game on Saturday, which reassured me about his plans (and current thinking), but made it clear that there's a long way to go before this situation is resolved...

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:29 am

Kernow Yellow wrote:Interesting interview with Darryl Eales on RadOx after the game on Saturday, which reassured me about his plans (and current thinking), but made it clear that there's a long way to go before this situation is resolved...
For those of us who missed it, what was the gist?

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:02 pm

From 21 minutes in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04njylv

Pretty much word for word what I've been writing about on the other place.

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:36 pm

GodalmingYellow wrote:From 21 minutes in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04njylv

Pretty much word for word what I've been writing about on the other place.
Thanks GY. Haven't seen your posts at the Other Place - keeping up with discussions there is a full-time job! This place is at the other end of the spectrum; still no comment on Saturday's incredible victory... :roll:

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:46 pm

POST 1:

There should be no reason why a Heads of Terms cannot be agreed within a couple of weeks, so this should have been completed months ago.

The Heads is only an outline agreement and statement of intent, so does not require much in the way of detail. What is being sold, sale price, parties to the agreement and possibly outline timescales and finance. Anything beyond that is for the final contract. It is very rare for Heads to take this long and for Jem to say he wants Heads by the end of the season is well beyond a reasonable timeframe. If he was saying final contracts by the end of the season, that would make sense, but not Heads.

So there has to be a fair bit of sympathy for the board of directors on this.

As regards impact on investment by DE, knowing whether the club has a sustainable finance framework for Championship (or even continued League 1) football, through access to non footballing revenues is clearly going to be very important to know whether and how much to invest in this transfer window, and indeed in the summer. These are decisions whether to push the club forwards or to settle for mediocrity and if I were investing my millions (haha) I would want to know that it was sustainable.

Read more: http://yellowsforum.co.uk/thread/24946/ ... z4WaIZmXEL

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Re: Chairman's Programme Notes v Scunthorpe

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:51 pm

POST 2:

[From Charlie Methven]

That is a quite ludicrous thing to say, Terry.

Some HoT would take a decade or so to get to (Irish Peace process!) and others could be done over a lunch!!!

Given who the parties involved here are EXTRA OxVox, we simply cannot know how long it 'should' take. But let us remember that the OC is a public body. Once it signs up to something, even in non-legal terms, t opens itself straight up to public criticism and possible defenestration. As for FK, he has his complex tax web to consider, inheritance tax, the planning process with and without RTB, and whether he might be better to sit still and wait.

In short, this is complex stuff. Just imagine, for a moment, that this is a deal whose moving parts include the OCC both dealing with FK on a planning issue, SODC on a parking issue, OxVox on a funding issue and local residents on amenities for increased housing. Imagine, in these circs, that the OCC says to OxVox, 'I'm sorry, but we are not going to get all the necessary Buy-In for this before the summer, but we are moving forwards with it. In he meantime, you cannot say a word about any of it, because we do not want to answer various vested interests before we have all our ducks in a row."

Is that then a HoT which OxVox can force thru in a few days, or even two months? All they would be able to do is sit tight, and ask people for patience. Patience, by the way, which - after all these years - is hardly indefinite, but a few months. Just imagine how excited we'd all have been last year if someone - anyone! - had said, out of the blue, "Oh by the way, we should get the stadium situation sorted by June 2017". We'd have been jumping up and down in glee and crossing our fingers that the dream didn't suddenly end.

[My response]

Its not ludicrous at all, and comparison of purchase of KasStad to the Irish Peace Process is bizarre if I'm being polite.

All we are talking about here is a property deal. Its really not that complicated.

OCC would only be party to a HoT if they were purchasing an interest in the stadium, otherwise the HoT is none of their business.

Any grants or government funds would not be party to the HoT either, nor would any of Kassam's tax affairs (especially not inheritance tax). Those are all outwith any contract.

I don't want to sound patronising at all, but by your response, I'm not sure you understand what a Heads of Terms is.

An HoT is only a statement of intent. It is not legally binding, and there is no requirement for exchange of funds. It is only a formal expression of outline basic intent and agreement between parties to a potential contract. It would be OxVox, and whatever Community Trust vehicle that was set up, and Firoka, stating in writing that in principle one party wishes to buy and one wishes to sell, and OxVox agreeing to release the ACV if a deal is agreed, together with very basic outline of terms. It is nothing more than that. It does not require OCC approval. It does not require OCC permission. It does not require planning permission. It does not require details of funding sources. All those elements are for final contracts, which as a result take much longer to achieve.

An HoT doesn't even have to be published, so confidentiality is not remotely an issue.

No party can force anything through, but if there is serious agreement to move forwards on all sides, there is nothing to prevent what has already taken longer than it needed to and any delays must raise questions as to the seriousness of one or more of the parties to complete. Then you have to ask who benefits from a deal resulting in a perpetually shrinking license, and who is at risk from that.

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