Football League Trophy

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Isaac
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Isaac »

Kernow Yellow wrote: Eh? What an odd calculation basis to use. At the same stage of the competition last season, our attendace against Yeovil at home was 2,532, so last night was about 20% down on that. Which would imply that we'd take about 25,000 this year.

But of course there are very many factors for how many we'd take to Wembley if we got there again (including plenty who wouldn't feel the need having been last year to watch us lose).

How many fans are actually boycotting these matches? By which I mean people who attended them regularly previously (not just Slumdon at home), who have deliberately not gone this year? Judging by attendances so far, about 500 to 1,000 I'd say. Which isn't going to make much of a dent in a Wembley crowd...

(PS This is a statistical post - not expressing any view on the rights or wrongs)
I agree - my calculation is odd, I prefer yours. Would think 25000 is probably a reasonable estimate (minus a few for "wembley-fatigue").
theox
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by theox »

Kernow Yellow wrote:How many fans are actually boycotting these matches? By which I mean people who attended them regularly previously (not just Slumdon at home), who have deliberately not gone this year? Judging by attendances so far, about 500 to 1,000 I'd say. Which isn't going to make much of a dent in a Wembley crowd...
This, of course, is why it is very important to boycott the semis and the final as these were the only games (other than Slumdon) at which we had big crowds last year.

It has been fairly easy to boycott the tournament so far as, let's face it, most people do not go to these games anyway and the EFL can quite easily claim that most attendances have been not far removed from previous years (although our games against Slumdon do reflect a decent boycott - from memory, circa 7.5k 2 years ago, £10k last year but only 2.5k this year). Therefore, if the semis and final are well attended where is the evidence to point at the competition being a failure and thus that the majority of fans are against B Teams? There is not any.

Saying you've boycotting the tournament but will still go to the final is daft particularly, as with Ty Cobb's comment, you don't really mind if we lose. What's the point of potentially hurting the future of the EFL, and therefore OUFC, by attending a game that you're not that bothered about. There are plenty of other 'great days out' to be had.

As I posted on Twitter, a day out at Wembley is only special if the reason you are going is special. This is not a special tournament so why risk giving the EFL the evidence it needs to continue bending over for the Premier League?
Dr Bob
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Dr Bob »

I can see merits in all of the different arguments put forward here. Midweek games are a no-no for me, so my non-attendance so far is independent of whether I would have joined in the boycott. If we get to Wembley, I shall go. There will be plenty who will do likewise. There will also be plenty who will choose the see the boycott through to the very end of the competition. A few might choose not to go, having seen Oxford play at Wembley last year. Others may choose to go because they still have not seen us play there. None of these positions is right or wrong in any meaningful sense of the words.

Ultimately, everyone needs to be free to do what they feel is right for them, and to do so free from criticism.
Jimski
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Jimski »

I've been boycotting, and I don't want to go to Wembley. I sort of hope we draw with Luton and get knocked out on pens tbh. Ideally Hylton could score the winning pen. (I don't ever like us to actually lose a game properly, as it may have a psychological effect, so pens is a good way to exit this sham of a tournament.)
recordmeister
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by recordmeister »

My only thought on this, is that I support my club.

I don't like the Prem League (it turns my stomach) but would I boycott Oxford if we were to get there? Hell, no.

I HATE the Champions League. I can't remember the last time I watched a CL match. But would I boycott it if Oxford played in it? Hell no.

I really, really hate FIFA, but do I want England (who equally turn my stomach) to fail in the World Cup? Hell, no.

So, the thingymagjic cup. Do I hate the idea of it? Yes. Will I boycott my club in it? Hell, no. Why? because they're my club.


On point one here, I tried to watch West Ham vs Manchester City last night. Awful, one sided crap at a stadium gifted to a club who, quite frankly, don't deserve it and won by a team who got around the money issues by having their owners 'sponsor' their stadium for millions of pounds. If you want to be fair, boycott the Premier League by cancelling BT Sport and Sky right now, over not going to see Oxford play on a Tues night in some crap cup. I bet you 90% of the 'stay away' supporters from our cup games have Sky and / or BT Sport. So who is feeding the madness of the game? You, with your TV subscription to a fat league of fat clubs who are only getting fatter. Or the person going to support the club you actually support.

The stay-aways who also have Sky / BT Sport: Hardly Woolfie Smith hat, are you? More Corbyn's coal stained underpants.
tomoufc
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by tomoufc »

I love my club too, and that's why I'm boycotting. Realistically, being a 5 game a season exile, that'll only make any (small) difference if we actually get to Wembley. The direction of travel in football is towards ever greater centralisation of capital into fewer clubs with bigger squads. And that's not what being an Oxford fan has taught me about what makes the game worthwhile. Anything we can do to stop the rot is good. It's about time us fans did something about it, rather than just moaning while the life is sucked out of the lower leagues. Look at the effect it's having already on the 'magic' of the FA cup, for example.

I actually hope we do progress, because we would be the best set of fans to demonstrate that the boycott held and united most fans in the bottom two leagues, the contrast showing from the hoards of Oxfordshire's finest that turned out at the national stadium last year, to the pitiful clutches of uninformed day-trippers stung out along the empty seats in 2017.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
tomoufc
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by tomoufc »

Dr Bob wrote:I can see merits in all of the different arguments put forward here. Midweek games are a no-no for me, so my non-attendance so far is independent of whether I would have joined in the boycott. If we get to Wembley, I shall go. There will be plenty who will do likewise. There will also be plenty who will choose the see the boycott through to the very end of the competition. A few might choose not to go, having seen Oxford play at Wembley last year. Others may choose to go because they still have not seen us play there. None of these positions is right or wrong in any meaningful sense of the words.

Ultimately, everyone needs to be free to do what they feel is right for them, and to do so free from criticism.
I think that's pretty wet. You should be able to justify your position, and defend criticisms of it. This isn't internet shopping, it's about the future of your club.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
recordmeister
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by recordmeister »

In the last 18 months, how much money have we made from this competition in both prize money and other assets (the Wembley match being one)? I don't think, as a club, we are in any position to turn down another income stream such as this. Who knows, if it hadn't been for last seasons cup run, we might not have been able to afford some of the players we have this season, let alone sell COD for over a Million, after he proved his 'big game worth' by netting at Wembley.

I, for one, appreciate MApps approach to this, and all other cup competitions we play in because he knows that every win is cash in the bank and has a direct effect upon his budgets and the team we get to watch week-in, week-out.

I'm self-employed and the little jobs to me as as important as the big jobs. They all add up at the end of the year, and I'm sure the club, if no one else, is financially grateful for our success in this competition.
Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Kairdiff Exile »

recordmeister wrote:In the last 18 months, how much money have we made from this competition in both prize money and other assets (the Wembley match being one)? I don't think, as a club, we are in any position to turn down another income stream such as this. Who knows, if it hadn't been for last seasons cup run, we might not have been able to afford some of the players we have this season, let alone sell COD for over a Million, after he proved his 'big game worth' by netting at Wembley.

I, for one, appreciate MApps approach to this, and all other cup competitions we play in because he knows that every win is cash in the bank and has a direct effect upon his budgets and the team we get to watch week-in, week-out.

I'm self-employed and the little jobs to me as as important as the big jobs. They all add up at the end of the year, and I'm sure the club, if no one else, is financially grateful for our success in this competition.
I don't think anyone would disagree with any of that, RM. I'd been saying for years that we should treat this competition seriously, precisely because you stand a pretty good chance of getting to at least the quarter-final just by fielding a full-strength side in the early rounds. It pained me under Atkins, Talbot, Rix et al that we'd always get eliminated at the first hurdle and miss that opportunity - especially in seasons when a cup run would have done us a world of good.

But none of that changes the fact that attending games in the competition this season is likely to be to our (and others at our level's) long-term detriment. I'm glad we're taking the competition seriously and enjoying some success (and prize money!) from it - but a big crowd at Wembley will allow the Football League to spin the line that actually fans backed the competition after all, and it was only a few moaners who boycotted it. And then they can suggest extending the trial for another season. And then they can suggest that maybe B Teams should be allowed in other competitions. And before you know it, football as a hierarchical meritocracy is gone.

Missing Oxford game hurts. I sent the club a cheque at the start of the season equivalent to my match entry for the group games, and at some point I'll send them another to cover the knockout games I've missed. But there is no way on earth I will condone this fucking trophy or the damage it threatens to do to our sport.
theox
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by theox »

I think Kardiff Exile summed it up nicely there. I'm more than happy to miss these games on the basis that I feel that long-term damage could be done by this tournament. Obviously, it might not be and this could all be a storm in a teacup but recent history shows us that the Premier League will do all it can to maximise its monetary position and the EFL will continue to the a lap-dog...

In response to Record's point re football on TV, the only paid TV we have in our house is Netflix. I cannot even remember the last time I watched a Premier League game. The only time I see it is when it is on in the pub prior to Oxford games and, even then, I have no interest at this point. The only live football on TV I've watched in the last few years is the first 2 rounds of the FA Cup on the BBC before they default to showing Man Utd's games.

It is also worth noting that this is not a boycott of OUFC (although our board did vote for the tournament so must shoulder their share of the blame) but a boycott of a tournament and its shameful introduction of B Teams.

In a few years time, if we end up playing 'West Brom B' in 'League Three' will the day out at a big stadium have been worth it? Not for me, certainly.

Essentially, the way football is currently run by all the parties involved is shameful and if we, the paying customers, don't stand up to the system who will?
Dr Bob
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Dr Bob »

tomoufc wrote:
Dr Bob wrote:I can see merits in all of the different arguments put forward here. Midweek games are a no-no for me, so my non-attendance so far is independent of whether I would have joined in the boycott. If we get to Wembley, I shall go. There will be plenty who will do likewise. There will also be plenty who will choose the see the boycott through to the very end of the competition. A few might choose not to go, having seen Oxford play at Wembley last year. Others may choose to go because they still have not seen us play there. None of these positions is right or wrong in any meaningful sense of the words.

Ultimately, everyone needs to be free to do what they feel is right for them, and to do so free from criticism.
I think that's pretty wet. You should be able to justify your position, and defend criticisms of it. This isn't internet shopping, it's about the future of your club.
I wondered how long it would take for the first insult to come my way. I have no need to justify my position to you or anybody else. It is my decision and mine alone whether I go to Wembley if we get there. It is one I feel comfortable with. If you do not like that, that is your problem, not mine. If you and others choose not to go, that is your decision. If you choose on this forum to explain your position, that is up to you. And if you think you have to defend/justify your position, then that is fine. But do not DEMAND that I should do the same.

Acknowledging different people hold different views is not wet - it is being open-minded to the range of opinions on this issue. Unless of course that is your definition of wet...

Oh and this is NOT about the future of my club.
Jimski
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Jimski »

recordmeister wrote:My only thought on this, is that I support my club.

I don't like the Prem League (it turns my stomach) but would I boycott Oxford if we were to get there? Hell, no.

I HATE the Champions League. I can't remember the last time I watched a CL match. But would I boycott it if Oxford played in it? Hell no.

I really, really hate FIFA, but do I want England (who equally turn my stomach) to fail in the World Cup? Hell, no.

So, the thingymagjic cup. Do I hate the idea of it? Yes. Will I boycott my club in it? Hell, no. Why? because they're my club.


On point one here, I tried to watch West Ham vs Manchester City last night. Awful, one sided crap at a stadium gifted to a club who, quite frankly, don't deserve it and won by a team who got around the money issues by having their owners 'sponsor' their stadium for millions of pounds. If you want to be fair, boycott the Premier League by cancelling BT Sport and Sky right now, over not going to see Oxford play on a Tues night in some crap cup. I bet you 90% of the 'stay away' supporters from our cup games have Sky and / or BT Sport. So who is feeding the madness of the game? You, with your TV subscription to a fat league of fat clubs who are only getting fatter. Or the person going to support the club you actually support.

The stay-aways who also have Sky / BT Sport: Hardly Woolfie Smith hat, are you? More Corbyn's coal stained underpants.
At least the Premier League / Champions League, whatever one may think of them (and most of my thoughts are negative) still treat each club as an equal of another. The difference with the FL Trophy is that they actively have one set of rules for one type of club and one set of rules for another. If we play Chelsea, then we should play Chelsea, not some half-arsed game against the youth team that they don't even count as a proper fixture. If they don't regard games in this competition as full fixtures, then why should any club? Or any supporter? It's a disgrace tbh.

And, not that I feel it's relevant, but I don't have Sky. I think I can access BT Sport as a BT customer, but I don't pay anything extra for it, and didn't ask for it. I'm just not interested in watching Premier or Champions league games anyway. In fact I barely watch any football bar Oxford matches (and big summer tournaments).
tomoufc
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by tomoufc »

Dr Bob wrote:
tomoufc wrote:
Dr Bob wrote:I can see merits in all of the different arguments put forward here. Midweek games are a no-no for me, so my non-attendance so far is independent of whether I would have joined in the boycott. If we get to Wembley, I shall go. There will be plenty who will do likewise. There will also be plenty who will choose the see the boycott through to the very end of the competition. A few might choose not to go, having seen Oxford play at Wembley last year. Others may choose to go because they still have not seen us play there. None of these positions is right or wrong in any meaningful sense of the words.

Ultimately, everyone needs to be free to do what they feel is right for them, and to do so free from criticism.
I think that's pretty wet. You should be able to justify your position, and defend criticisms of it. This isn't internet shopping, it's about the future of your club.
I wondered how long it would take for the first insult to come my way. I have no need to justify my position to you or anybody else. It is my decision and mine alone whether I go to Wembley if we get there. It is one I feel comfortable with. If you do not like that, that is your problem, not mine. If you and others choose not to go, that is your decision. If you choose on this forum to explain your position, that is up to you. And if you think you have to defend/justify your position, then that is fine. But do not DEMAND that I should do the same.

Acknowledging different people hold different views is not wet - it is being open-minded to the range of opinions on this issue. Unless of course that is your definition of wet...

Oh and this is NOT about the future of my club.
That's more like it.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
Dr Bob
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by Dr Bob »

tomoufc wrote: That's more like it.
Strange. Nothing in my last post qualified or altered in any way the views expressed in my initial one...
tomoufc
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Re: Football League Trophy

Post by tomoufc »

Dr Bob wrote:
tomoufc wrote: That's more like it.
Strange. Nothing in my last post qualified or altered in any way the views expressed in my initial one...
Yes, you said that this is not about the future of the club. So my silly taunt at least got that out of you. On this, I fundamentally disagree. It is about the future of the club.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot
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