Accounts

Anything yellow and blue
ty cobb
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Accounts

Post by ty cobb » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:15 pm

How the f*ck do we manage to lose £2.4 f*cking million.

OUFC4eva
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Re: Accounts

Post by OUFC4eva » Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:01 am

Not seen the financials that show a record annual trading loss
for the U's , but Mr Eales attributes the result to
significant spending on infrastructure. The loss
was budgeted for but losses of this magnitude
are unsustainable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35996749

Myles Francis
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Re: Accounts

Post by Myles Francis » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:33 am

Attributing the loss to spending on infrastructure is all well and good provided that there is a plan to move towards a position of sustainability. And, fundamentally, that means doing *something* around the stadium. Considering FK's recent bout of sabre rattling, that isn't looking very likely at the moment.

Oh, and the real loss is more like £2.7m if you add in Mark Ashton's salary.

tomoufc
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Re: Accounts

Post by tomoufc » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:39 pm

How does one go about accessing the accounts? I fancy doing my own accounting analysis on them. I'm needing to learn about accointing for an entirely different purpose and this would be a relatively fun place to start. Thanks.

Oh and by the way im less active in general on forums and social media, but I still look at this forum regularly and enjoy the fan's views.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

Kairdiff Exile
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Re: Accounts

Post by Kairdiff Exile » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:05 am

Have to say, this is what worried me all along about the current setup (as I said back in July 2014 when they took over). How confident are we that in the long-run the money they're spending will be their own and not the club's? Flinging millions on the team and buying our away support free drinks every other week is great in the short-term, but what's the long-term plan to make it sustainable? I just don't see that there is such a plan, beyond praying for successive promotions and then selling to an oil sheikh or somesuch. High-risk strategy.

Also, you can't help but wonder what our league rivals must make of it. Northampton's financial difficulties are well-documented, whilst Accrington haven't had a two pennies to rub together for years. Yet there they are, performing as well/better than us, yet we're £2.4m in the red for our efforts.

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Accounts

Post by GodalmingYellow » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:14 am

Kairdiff Exile wrote:Have to say, this is what worried me all along about the current setup (as I said back in July 2014 when they took over). How confident are we that in the long-run the money they're spending will be their own and not the club's? Flinging millions on the team and buying our away support free drinks every other week is great in the short-term, but what's the long-term plan to make it sustainable? I just don't see that there is such a plan, beyond praying for successive promotions and then selling to an oil sheikh or somesuch. High-risk strategy.

Also, you can't help but wonder what our league rivals must make of it. Northampton's financial difficulties are well-documented, whilst Accrington haven't had a two pennies to rub together for years. Yet there they are, performing as well/better than us, yet we're £2.4m in the red for our efforts.
I've not seen the detailed p&l. If anyone on here has it, please would you send it to me? If anyone wants to see the accounts minus the p&l, the documents are now free to the general public once published with Companies House:

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company

Eales converted at least some of the debts into equity, thereby making that element of the debt his own.

Don't get confused between losses and debt, they are not remotely the same thing. You can make a huge profit whilst creating huge debts and you make huge losses whilst reducing debt. Having said that, in the case of OUFC, it is usually the case that the losses primarily contribute to the debts because of lack of receipts compared to high payments.

Having a loss budgeted for is OK, to the extent that the primary underwriter is aware that it will happen and so will provide funding. Where it is dangerous as KE rightly says, is where the losses become endemic for the purposes of enabling the continuation of failed policies. It is OK to lose money in the short term, for the benefit of longer term gain such as one off spending to underpin promotion and future gains, but when push comes to shove, just like you and me and every business and every government, eventually you have to live within your means or it will go tits up.

Matt D
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Re: Accounts

Post by Matt D » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:13 pm

Kairdiff Exile wrote:How confident are we that in the long-run the money they're spending will be their own and not the club's?
it depends on how much you consider DE a man of his word. this is what the oxvox notes record DE as saying about it at the september 2014 post-takeover fans' forum:

'DE stressed that you don't invest in a football club to make money. As any loans to the club are made by him, he doesn't see this as an issue. DE confirmed that if it came to selling the club he would write off any loans made by himself. He also confirmed that MA's salary is paid by Ensco, and this would not be charged back to the club by way of a management fee or similar.'

I think the spirit of that's pretty clear (although I daresay the accountants on here may have some caveats to introduce...). however, I have to say it's a shame DE didn't take the opportunity to reiterate this commitment in the interviews that followed the release of such a concerning set of income and costs and went down the 'it's not for fans to worry about just enjoy the football' line instead.

Myles Francis
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Re: Accounts

Post by Myles Francis » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:43 pm

Matt D wrote:however, I have to say it's a shame DE didn't take the opportunity to reiterate this commitment in the interviews that followed the release of such a concerning set of income and costs and went down the 'it's not for fans to worry about just enjoy the football' line instead.
Very good point Matt, especially when he did say this:
This season, all three cup competitions generated revenue we weren't expecting, alongside television revenue, Wembley ticket sales, retail which we have brought in-house and gates due to performances on the pitch being on the up. Even adding that all together, the club is still not sustainable.
So, what is the plan to make the club sustainable? Unless I've missed it, I'm also surprised that there has been no official OxVox comment on these accounts.

Isaac
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Re: Accounts

Post by Isaac » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:35 am

From what I can tell, the plan to make it sustainable is to sell a few players. This is not a bad strategy at the moment as we have (as far as I can tell) two saleable assets in Roofe and O'Dowda. However, this does place a lot of pressure on
1) Being able to bring through or identify (better than any other club at this level) future players that will make us a profit.
2) Remaining successful while we periodically sell our best players.

Also makes a mockery of the salary cap doesn't it?

Old Abingdonian
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Re: Accounts

Post by Old Abingdonian » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:39 am

Without wanting to be too blasé about this (and not being an accountant), one of the things the current management team has done is show an improved ability to identify talent (Roofe, MacDonald, Baldock, Lundstram, Sercombe) and an apparent ability to coach players into playing better (Kenny, Dunkley). Under the previous management, the frequent failure to improve players was a recurring - if rather overstated - complaint on this forum.

ty cobb
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Re: Accounts

Post by ty cobb » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:39 pm

Not much point (from a financial persepctive) of identifying or deveoping talent when they belong to other clubs though.

If we're planning to lose money in a season when we're in the top three and get to Wembley we're going to rack up a level of debt which is going to be eye boggling. Come someone explain to me why we are losing so much money given such a good season - our squad is not big, are we just paying the players with us lots? The stadium is part of the problem, although not all of it.

However, as Eales pointed out, this is his money, we're not from my knowledge borrowing money from banks, so it would only be a problem if he calls it in, at which point the club would die as we have limited assets for him to get his money back so as with IL he would need to pass it on to a new owner who would slowly pay him back. If that means we have a enjoyable season than so be it - better that than fumbling around mid table for the rest of my life.

By seperating out the stadium from the club it is hard to doubt the motives of anyone who takes us over anymore as there is simply no money to be made from the club in terms of it's assets, it's just such a shame than Kassam screwed us over with the deal to use the stadium. If as he said at the time OUFC would benefit from the income of the related sites we would be doing well out of the stadium move, as it is we're f*cked from a financial situation unless we get to the Premier league.

Old Abingdonian
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Re: Accounts

Post by Old Abingdonian » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:19 pm

Ty, these results are last season's: surely it may be better this season, with - as you say - the JPT final, cup runs and improved attendances.

slappy
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Re: Accounts

Post by slappy » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:37 pm

The club's turnover in League 2 over the last five seasons since promotions has been fairly steady at around £3.25 million, with a drop to £2.9milion last season.

Operating costs (presumably all of the player and backroom team) though have increased significantly. For five years from 2006 to 2010 they were approx £1.9million (£2.5 million in 2007, the first Jim Smith BSP year), jumped to £2.3 million in 2011 (first year back in the league), then "steadied" at £3million for three years, and then jumped again to £3.7million in 2015.

Similarly, admin expenses were fairly under control in the conference, averaging £800K, before lurching up to a current level of £1.6Million.

The stadium rent obviously doesn't help, increasing by approximately 5% per year, with a current (one year ago) commitment of £599,000 (presumably including service charge).

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Accounts

Post by GodalmingYellow » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:56 pm

slappy wrote:The club's turnover in League 2 over the last five seasons since promotions has been fairly steady at around £3.25 million, with a drop to £2.9milion last season.

Operating costs (presumably all of the player and backroom team) though have increased significantly. For five years from 2006 to 2010 they were approx £1.9million (£2.5 million in 2007, the first Jim Smith BSP year), jumped to £2.3 million in 2011 (first year back in the league), then "steadied" at £3million for three years, and then jumped again to £3.7million in 2015.

Similarly, admin expenses were fairly under control in the conference, averaging £800K, before lurching up to a current level of £1.6Million.

The stadium rent obviously doesn't help, increasing by approximately 5% per year, with a current (one year ago) commitment of £599,000 (presumably including service charge).
I would think the increase in admin costs represents back office and marketing and sales teams, which have been invested in (even more so this season).

The professional staff budget at £3.7m must include paying off several under-performing players contracts. How come we've not been savaged by the FPP rules if we have spent that much compared to turnover? The answer may well be that Eales is gifting the money, rather than lending it.

Hog
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Re: Accounts

Post by Hog » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:45 pm

I'm no accountant either but I can't help wondering if Mr Eales really is someone a bit quite a lot different from previous owners or is he just another in a fairly long line of ... well, you know! Is he really going to write off all that cash or is he hoping that Stewart Donald will cover it when the time comes?

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