Adams Out!

[Kairdiff Exile]

I guess going into this summer break we will be in the same position as we were at the same point last year with Waddock. We have a manager who has been underwhelming during his spell in charge, and there are legitimate concerns about how we will fare. However, the owners are going to stick with their man, so I guess we have to let him make the signings he sees fit and then judge him on how we do in the first third/half of the season. And, as with Waddock and with Wilder before him, fans will be expecting the team to be Top 7 by the time of the Winter Solstice for the manager to be given longer. At least this year we (hopefully) won't be changing a manager on the eve of the season with only half a team on the books.

(and GY, apologies for missing the irony of your earlier post)

[Old Abingdonian]

GY, it was 'spun', I agree, but to see how far the argument runs.

I think you are niggardly with credit to the current regime with regard to the youngsters - I think they have become better footballers, something which did not happen to youngsters under Wilder (Marsh, Deering, Woodley).

But your main argument is about money, and you may well be right - can anyone put some flesh on the financial bones? What / who cost so much? I understand that a loaning club pays a fraction of the loanee's wages during the period of the loan. Now if that were a fixed percentage, then it will cost much more to loan Barnett and Roofe than to loan another L2 player. But surely this is not the case - it's about (I presume) the value of the loan to the loaning club, the receiving club, and the player - and presumably, competition. Do we know the loans were expensive? Isn't this squad (with several young players counted as part of the standard 18) cheaper than last season's, when I would have though Crocombe/ Matt Bevans / Ruffels were the only players reducing the need to pay experienced players?

[ty cobb]

For me I really can't see the point of this season. I imagine most the loanees will go back to parent clubs or onto another team - Riley/Barnett being the prime example of this. This means we'll be back to square one instead of having had a season to imprint this magical DNA into the team. Performances have barely picked up of late - indeed the article on the front page of this site comments

Tuesday’s game against Northampton was another in a long line of abject sleep inducing home performances, yet even by the standards we have set, from an attacking perspective, we seem to have plumbed even lower depths. It was that bad.

We've been no-where near the play offs all season which is a big step back from previous seasons. Players have come and gone all season good permanant signings that have improved the team have been very thin on the ground and the standard of football (with the very odd exception) has been very poor.

I also think there is a arrogance about MAapp that fails to recognise that something is due to an error on his part, or the team playing very poorly - the interview after Hartlepool being a classic example. Crowds are down massivly (if you ignore free tickets) as a result.

To balance he has trusted the kids more than Wilder ever did and does attempt to play an attractive brand of football (albeit largely ineffective). But given his record elsewhere I am struggling to understand how he ever got the job in the first place let alone how he has done enough to justify keeping it.

[GodalmingYellow]

The split of costs between parent club and loanee club varies hugely and there is no hard and fast rule to it OA. Often when a player comes from a higher division, the parent club pay a higher proportion of the wages to make it affordable for the lower level club. (Actually the parent club pay all the wages and get a full or partial reimbursement from the loanee club).

In terms of who was expensive, both Constable and Kitson had contracts worth in excess of £100k at OUFC. I believe there were (and are) others with similarly well above average wages for this division.

In terms of this season, Appleton has spent £1.7m on player's wages.

[Werthers Original]

Is that £1.7m a lot higher than competitors? I imagine Alfie would have been expensive too, and Dunkley is poss cheaper than Raynes?

[GodalmingYellow]

Is that £1.7m a lot higher than competitors? I imagine Alfie would have been expensive too, and Dunkley is poss cheaper than Raynes?

Alfie was high too, as was Newey.

Yes £1.7m is high, and in the region of 40-50% more than Wilder ever had. I think it may be 4th highest, but could be wrong. I believe, the highest spenders were Luton on £1.9m. Possibly Portsmouth also at that level.

Accrington spent just £600k.

[Snake]

Is that £1.7m a lot higher than competitors? I imagine Alfie would have been expensive too, and Dunkley is poss cheaper than Raynes?

Alfie was high too, as was Newey.

Yes £1.7m is high, and in the region of 40-50% more than Wilder ever had. I think it may be 4th highest, but could be wrong. I believe, the highest spenders were Luton on £1.9m. Possibly Portsmouth also at that level.

Accrington spent just £600k.

This link kind of fits in with the Milk Cup Anniversary thread. I wonder what the Oxford United wage bill was in the ‘85-‘88 era compared to other Division I clubs?

As for now, then just don’t look at what top flight clubs pay if you subscribe to any of the pay TV channels partly because you like the product, 'cos it's your money that feeds the problem.

http://www.not606.com/threads/premier-l ... le.297949/

[Werthers Original]

I admire Accrington, Dagenham, and Morecambe so much for competing on such low budgets. Not sure you can compare us to them though, they are doing well because the whole club is well managed and on a roll - like Swansea at a lower level. Soonish I expect things will fall away for them, while I hope we will be steadily improving in a sustainable way, if we can get our club well managed and on a roll.

[Kernow Yellow]

I admire Accrington, Dagenham, and Morecambe so much for competing on such low budgets. Not sure you can compare us to them though, they are doing well because the whole club is well managed and on a roll - like Swansea at a lower level. Soonish I expect things will fall away for them, while I hope we will be steadily improving in a sustainable way, if we can get our club well managed and on a roll.

I'm not sure you could call what's happening at OUFC either 'improvement' (lowest league finish for years) or 'sustainable' (highest operating losses perhaps ever)?!

[GodalmingYellow]

I admire Accrington, Dagenham, and Morecambe so much for competing on such low budgets. Not sure you can compare us to them though, they are doing well because the whole club is well managed and on a roll - like Swansea at a lower level. Soonish I expect things will fall away for them, while I hope we will be steadily improving in a sustainable way, if we can get our club well managed and on a roll.

I think we can compare, and given their financial status and history and connurbation, we should be light years ahead of them, even if our management team only perform equally as well as theirs. That we are not speaks volumes about the management team.

[Werthers Original]

Of course we should be ahead of them, we're obviously underperforming in terms of how the club is run, even if Appleton shows some signs of being a decent coach. It's a club-wide issue, though, isn't it - importing Accrington's manager wouldn't necessarily lead to us improving.

[Matt D]

the problem with appleton this season as far as i'm concerned is the failure to deliver results in line with the expenditure on players - and that given all this expenditure we were at at least one point in serious danger of relegation.

now I've missed the encouraging away performances so perhaps my view is tainted by the dreadful fare that's been served up at home in the last few months, but I don't see any reason to feel optimistic for next season. yes in terms of points we're on a good run, but that masks some awful performances and disappointing results mixed in with the good wins. that doesn't seem to me to be the mark of someone who may have taken a long time and a good stack of money to get it right, but has got there in the end.

what's going to change next season? I don't believe appleton has shown that he's learned how to coax more out of players that come in to the extent we will be a vastly-improved side next season. we still struggle to get a hold in games against some very poor sides - has his coaching/management shown strong signs of improvement to the extent that we're going to be that much a better side next season? and we're not going to spend so much extra that a lower/mid table side is bolstered to become a top-of-the-table side. nor do I sense an upsurge of enthusiasm around the club. what will be different?

[GodalmingYellow]

Of course we should be ahead of them, we're obviously underperforming in terms of how the club is run, even if Appleton shows some signs of being a decent coach. It's a club-wide issue, though, isn't it - importing Accrington's manager wouldn't necessarily lead to us improving.

Err no, Appleton isn't showing signs of being a decent coach at all. Quite the opposite. He is showing a distinct inability to get the best out of an expensive squad.

The club is pretty well run I would say. Decent youth set up, high level women's set up, club initiatives to attract new fans, children's activities, loads of community schemes, coaching courses, investment in the first team squad, investment in coaching set up, scouting network, use of sports science and match analysis, much more interaction with sponsors and local business, trials of new ideas on matchdays, 50/50 raffle. What more do you expect?

[Werthers Original]

The club is pretty well run I would say. Decent youth set up, high level women's set up, club initiatives to attract new fans, children's activities, loads of community schemes, coaching courses, investment in the first team squad, investment in coaching set up, scouting network, use of sports science and match analysis, much more interaction with sponsors and local business, trials of new ideas on matchdays, 50/50 raffle. What more do you expect?

Very interesting - so you reckon that the right guy should be able to get us to roughly where we are now on a £600K budget?

[Kairdiff Exile]

The club is pretty well run I would say. Decent youth set up, high level women's set up, club initiatives to attract new fans, children's activities, loads of community schemes, coaching courses, investment in the first team squad, investment in coaching set up, scouting network, use of sports science and match analysis, much more interaction with sponsors and local business, trials of new ideas on matchdays, 50/50 raffle. What more do you expect?

Sustainability! My biggest worry with the current board is that they are spending way more than our attendances can justify, so far without any results, and that eventually the whole thing will implode. Lenagan over-spent too, of course, but he was learning from his mistakes (hence the emphasis on youth development, which I fear will now be lost because we're instead spunking money every month on four new loanees instead). Even if Appleton turned things round on the pitch, I doubt we can sustain more than a few years on our current expenditure.

Sustainability has to be the Number 1 priority - without it, we don't have a club. So although the things you list are welcome, we have to remember they come with a hefty price tag. We lost £1.3m(?) in the year up to the takeover - how much do you think we'll have lost in the year since then?