Kick It Out

Anything yellow and blue
Kernow Yellow
Grumpy old git
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:43 am

Anyway, back to Danny Hylton...

While I don't think comparisons with motoring offences, especially ones resulting in innocent deaths, are at all relevant to the matter in hand, it is worth noting that when we signed McCormick (some time after he had served his punishment, and many years after his offence) the club went out of their way to explain why they thought it was right to sign him.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with other posters that once people have been punished for an offence they should be allowed to pursue their careers. But given that Hylton's 'offence' was actually on the field of play, while he was carrying out his chosen profession, and that many people abhor racism and work extremely hard to eradicate it from football, it would be nice if there was some kind of acknowledgement from the club or the player of his past mistake and an ongoing commitment to anti-racism causes.

Brahma Bull
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Brahma Bull » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:14 pm

Just for the record I was trying to point out that the parents of Aaron Peak and Ben Peak would probably take great exception from the comparisons made by Jimski between Drink Driving and Racism.

The discussion about Racism was then taken back to its roots of being an inherent social issue, which wasn't what was being discussed, as opposed to the unfortunate comparison made between Danny Hylton's alleged crime (that is after all what was being discussed) and that of drink driving in general. I get the feeling that Drink Driving is disregarded amongst younger members of society and is attempted to be bulldozed through as acceptable in some way. Well it isn't acceptable and in my example the consequences were two young boys lost their lives through the complete disregard and criminal actions of one individual. Luke had been driving at over 90mph and over twice the legal drinking limit.

I'm not going to delve into the complexities of racism in this country, we live in a country which has tried to embrace a multi-cultural society despite the best attempts in recent years of a number of political parties and right-wing groups like Tommy Robinson's EDL to divide that general acceptance. However, it is getting better.

I find drink driving and its consequences as deplorable as racism. End of.

Jimski
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Jimski » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:36 pm

Brahma Bull wrote:I find drink driving and its consequences as deplorable as racism. End of.
And indeed who could argue faced with such incisive logic.

Great post by Kernow Yellow though - absolutely agree with that.

Snake
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Snake » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:36 pm

Kernow Yellow wrote:Anyway, back to Danny Hylton...

While I don't think comparisons with motoring offences, especially ones resulting in innocent deaths, are at all relevant to the matter in hand, it is worth noting that when we signed McCormick (some time after he had served his punishment, and many years after his offence) the club went out of their way to explain why they thought it was right to sign him.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with other posters that once people have been punished for an offence they should be allowed to pursue their careers. But given that Hylton's 'offence' was actually on the field of play, while he was carrying out his chosen profession, and that many people abhor racism and work extremely hard to eradicate it from football, it would be nice if there was some kind of acknowledgement from the club or the player of his past mistake and an ongoing commitment to anti-racism causes.
What he said ^^^^^^^

slappy
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by slappy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:25 pm

How about this?
Sam Deering - club employee at time - statement needed
Adam Chapman - club employee (on loan?) at time - statement needed once reporting restrictions over
Luke McCormack - not club employee at time, but first job back in football league
Dave Kitson - not club employee at time, played for several clubs since, but higher profile - no club statement

I think Hylton counts in the Kitson category, He's done something wrong once years ago at different club, nobody lost a life, but that still doesn't make it right.

Snake
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Snake » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:33 pm

slappy wrote:Sam Deering - club employee at time - statement needed
Dunno if this link will work but a picture speaks more than words - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =720%2C540

Eric Pollard
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Eric Pollard » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:01 pm

Does anyone remember Sheffield Wednesday v Oxford United in the mid seventies when Hughie Curran got sent of for NUTTING A REF?
And now we have 4 pages of comment and disquiet on the amazing Danny Hylton 2011 gob off.

Times have changed.. that's all I've got to say.
The bloke's done his stir - we've had worse characters than this at the club before, that's for sure.

Here's another story from the late seventies. Tiny Scottish will of the wisp Archie White, (who had tons of skill and even worse attitude), was sacked from OUFC on the spot when he was caught thieving watches and money from the players' changing rooms while they were out training.

We had no Internet back in them days.

(Lamely...) 'Oop the Warriors.

Kernow Yellow
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Kernow Yellow » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:32 pm

slappy wrote:How about this?
Sam Deering - club employee at time - statement needed
Adam Chapman - club employee (on loan?) at time - statement needed once reporting restrictions over
Luke McCormack - not club employee at time, but first job back in football league
Dave Kitson - not club employee at time, played for several clubs since, but higher profile - no club statement

I think Hylton counts in the Kitson category, He's done something wrong once years ago at different club, nobody lost a life, but that still doesn't make it right.
You're probably right Slappy. I'd just find it easier to get behind the guy and cheer his name if the issue was acknowledged and addressed by the club.

GodalmingYellow
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by GodalmingYellow » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:45 am

Kernow Yellow wrote:
slappy wrote:How about this?
Sam Deering - club employee at time - statement needed
Adam Chapman - club employee (on loan?) at time - statement needed once reporting restrictions over
Luke McCormack - not club employee at time, but first job back in football league
Dave Kitson - not club employee at time, played for several clubs since, but higher profile - no club statement

I think Hylton counts in the Kitson category, He's done something wrong once years ago at different club, nobody lost a life, but that still doesn't make it right.
You're probably right Slappy. I'd just find it easier to get behind the guy and cheer his name if the issue was acknowledged and addressed by the club.
I think that's right KY.

tomoufc
Dashing young thing
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by tomoufc » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:02 pm

Been busy with other things, so interesting to see how it has developed. In a similar way to the homophobia debate I think it was worth having, because it revealed that some people either do not think racism is a problem, or don't understand what it is, which is why it is useful to talk about these things, even if you're not going to convince everyone.

For those that have been arguing that x,y, or z hypothetical situation didn't involve racism as they see it, I have a rhetorical questions for you: what is racism then? Could you describe a form of practice that you think could be considered racist? Or is the whole thing some bizarre Guardian imagination based on the liberal chattering classes' secret desire for dictatorship?
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

Hog
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Hog » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:50 pm

Oh christ, no!

SmileyMan
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by SmileyMan » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:12 pm

tomoufc wrote:Or is the whole thing some bizarre Guardian imagination based on the liberal chattering classes' secret desire for dictatorship?
That's the OTT version, but I think it's fair to say that calling someone racist (or homophobic, or islamophobic) was used heavily in the 90s/00s as a shortcut to closing down debates, in particular the debate about immigration. Time after time people were accused of 'playing the race card'

The problem with that strategy that was used by the left-wing political classes is two-fold - firstly, the charge lost its sting over time, through overuse and through use against people who were manifestly anything but racist. It was intellectually dishonest and they got caught out eventually. Secondly, it left the important debate to be had about immigration and its effects on schools, hospitals, communities and jobs, as the sole preserve of those who truly were racist in thought, word and deed, and wore it as a badge of honour.

I think it is a terrible shame when one comment is used as an indicator of someone's character, in any way, but unfortunately our legal system is predicated on the egg-shell skull principle and so it's part of the culture we live in. When deciding if Big Ron, for instance, is a racist, I'll take Carlton Palmer's opinion over that of a hundred hand-wringing London journalists. The words he said were inexcusable of course, but to use them as your only measure of the man is pathetic and wrong.

The vast majority of people really just want to keep themselves to themselves, and are naturally suspicious of things that are different. The way to deal with that is through education, community and opportunity, not through name-calling and instant castigation.

tomoufc
Dashing young thing
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by tomoufc » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:12 pm

SmileyMan wrote:
tomoufc wrote:Or is the whole thing some bizarre Guardian imagination based on the liberal chattering classes' secret desire for dictatorship?
The way to deal with that is through education, community and opportunity, not through name-calling and instant castigation.
Ironically it's name calling and instant castigation that Hylton was accused of (I myself haven't branded him 'a racist', merely outlined why the situation makes me uncomfortable).

For what it's worth I agree that education is the key. But if that's to be the sole preserve political class, the formal education system, and the liberal media then we're back to square one - 'thought control' 'mind police' blah de fucking blah. (I really hate politicians and the media telling me what to think too; for example this 'trojan horse' bullshit - apparently I'm supposed to think that Muslim Extremists are Teaching Terrorism, even though the whole thing is based on a hoax letter.) If football fans, and other grass-roots campaigns involving ordinary people are doing the educating, then that's how things have changed and will. Having a player at this club who has been found guilty of racially abusing a fellow professional during a match, who has then denied it and not apologised for it (to the player concerned or anyone else), somewhat undermines these efforts.
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

Snake
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by Snake » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:18 pm

Hog wrote:Oh christ, no!
Yep, and I’d guess it’s a thesis or something that Tom was temporarily busy on.

tomoufc
Dashing young thing
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Re: Kick It Out

Post by tomoufc » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:10 pm

Snake wrote:
Hog wrote:Oh christ, no!
Yep, and I’d guess it’s a thesis or something that Tom was temporarily busy on.
That's unnervingly accurate :)
&quotI've been a slave to football. It follows you home, it follows you everywhere, and eats into your family life. But every working man misses out on some things because of his job. &quot

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